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Old Aug 15, 2008, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by warspite
Ah. You don't actually have any of them. Was just wondering.
Ya know what dude - I don't own a dog either, but I still know one when I see it!

I like my jets to go fast . . . like a jet. If you like yours to putt around like a Piper cub, well . . . to each their own I guess.
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 01:34 PM
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"Chances are you will not convince anyone that these toy planes which probably cost all of $10 USD to produce (compare the average per capita income of a Chinese family vs. US family to get an idea of what things cost to manufacture over there) are worth $200+ by the time it gets to the consumer."

Judging by the thousands sold, I'd say that the customers seem to disagree. Me included. Having some 20 of these foamie jets, I feel like I am getting my money's worth.


"Why would I buy any of these toy RTF's EDF's especially when it's very clear they are overpriced? Of course I don't own any of them,"


You don't own any of them? None? But you seem to post a lot of advice and criticism on many threads about them. I don't really understand. Right here on this thread, you are talking about what junk components there are in this new F-4, but you don't own one. You talk about the junk components in all the other jets, and you don't own those, either.

"but if the price is right, I would be tempted to buy one because it's a matter of risk/reward. A perfect example of this is how HobbyCity sells some of these exact same jets (F-35, L-39) for half the price of what some of the other retailers sell them for."

I heard the story on what really happened with that one. Hobby City sold them for below cost. Notice they don't have any more jets, they only had 10 of each, and 24 of the ArtTech F18, and they can't get any more. Wish I could have gotten one of those F-18s for $99, but all 24 were gone in a day, and there won't be any more. I wanted a freewing F-35, and I wrote freewing to ask if HobbyCity would get them back in stock, and they said they were very upset with HobbyCity and would definitely not be shipping any more to them, ever.

I always ship my planes from the far east with EMS, and my experence has been that it's $42-55 for any of the foamie jets. Hobby City charges $50 or so, I checked when I wanted that F18 and F35. I don't know who posted $30, it may be, but my actual experence has been more like $50, so you need to factor that in to your overseas "discount" price.
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socomon
Ya know what dude - I don't own a dog either, but I still know one when I see it!

I like my jets to go fast . . . like a jet. If you like yours to putt around like a Piper cub, well . . . to each their own I guess.
76mph is no Piper Cub.

So...neither you nor doubletap actually own a single RTF foamy jet. I was just wondering.
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 01:47 PM
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The only way the Starmax F-18 or Art-tech Su-27 are going to go 76 miles an hour is if you put them in the back of your car and get on the highway or perhaps if you ge them up to altitude and let them fall at terminal velocity.

Here is a list of other items I don't own:
- an elephant
- a ferrari
- a cruise ship
- a cheetah

Despite not owning them I am capable of watching them and telling which ones go fast and which ones don't. I suspect Doubletap can as well.
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 01:50 PM View Post
warspite
A moderator felt this post violated the following rule: Trolling (Obnoxious behavior). It is temporarily hidden while warspite edits it. Show it to me anyway.
Old Aug 15, 2008, 01:54 PM
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Please post some video of the stock Starmax going 76 in level flight. I would love to doppler it.

I have seen it fly in person. I'm not sure how owning it or not would change anything. Would it go faster just becuase I paid for it?

Would you say this video is typical?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...highlight=f+18

This is about 64 mph in level flight and frankly looks a little faster than the one I've seen fly.
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socomon
Please post some video of the stock Starmax going 76 in level flight. I would love to doppler it.

I have seen it fly in person. I'm not sure how owning it or not would change anything. Would it go faster just becuase I paid for it?

Would you say this video is typical?

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...highlight=f+18

This is about 64 mph in level flight and frankly looks a little faster than the one I've seen fly.
But that one isn't stock at all. He's using a 3S 2200 20C pack; the stock pack is a cheap 1300 15C. The 2200 20c is going to yield WAY better performance. If it was going 64 level with this pack, then with the stock pack it probably won't even break 60 IMO.

Doubletap
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 02:45 PM
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Ah - that expains why it looked faster than the one @ my club.
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warspite

I heard the story on what really happened with that one. Hobby City sold them for below cost. Notice they don't have any more jets, they only had 10 of each, and 24 of the ArtTech F18, and they can't get any more. Wish I could have gotten one of those F-18s for $99, but all 24 were gone in a day, and there won't be any more. I wanted a freewing F-35, and I wrote freewing to ask if HobbyCity would get them back in stock, and they said they were very upset with HobbyCity and would definitely not be shipping any more to them, ever.

I always ship my planes from the far east with EMS, and my experence has been that it's $42-55 for any of the foamie jets. Hobby City charges $50 or so, I checked when I wanted that F18 and F35. I don't know who posted $30, it may be, but my actual experence has been more like $50, so you need to factor that in to your overseas "discount" price.

Check out the airframe only HL F-4 here for $111.25 plus $33.55 for shipping
http://shop.eflypower.com/shop/views.asp?hw_id=1709

You can order the airframe only HL F-18 in parts with free shipping now at Hobby-Lobby for only $100
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 04:36 PM
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$33 shipping and $111 for the airframe is an awesome deal. Usually, shipping is much more, and outweighs a lot of the savings from some of these overseas deals. But also, usually, you can get something first from overseas long before it gets here if you are willing to pay the extra shipping. Watch out, though, as sometimes you find that someone like Hobby Lobby has an exclusive on selling to America, and most overseas shops won't ship you one when you get to checkout. Don't know if that is the case with this plane.
For me, to spend $145 for the bare airframe, or another $100 to get it from Hobby Lobby in a few more weeks, with everything installed, battery, servos, esc, motor, that's a better deal for me. If someone already has stuff to put in it, and wants to save a bit, well, a hundred bucks is a hundred bucks.
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 05:07 PM
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Don't get me wrong; this F-4 and the up and coming F-16 are a newer generation of foamie EDF that are larger, more scale looking, and better performing than the earlier ones AND the price they are asking is not considerably more than the previous ones although there is always room for improvement. It all adds up to better value for the consumer and it shows that manufacturers are listening to the market and what it wants. That is why I'm always telling them what I want (better quality at lower prices) by voicing my opinions because smart business and competition will always give the market what it demands. A perfect example of this is how public opinion heavily influenced the release of the SAPAC Gripen before it was ever released. SAPAC reps were smart enough to ask their user base what they wanted in the way of price and configuration and that's what they gave us. Without honest feedback there will be no progress.

Additionally, I'm seeing more retailers and manufacturers starting to offer their foamies as "airframe only" versions which is what us modelers have been asking for and they are clearly listening.

Doubletap
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 06:47 PM
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You are not actually the market. You have not actually bought one airplane.

I see you put many posts up about the Sapac Gripen, saying you would buy it if it was only bare foam...but you never did. Even though they offered it. This F-4, you can get it in bare foam, too, where's yours?

As far as I can see, there is this world of the internet, where people who don't own and fly just talk and talk, and then there is the reality of the marketplace, where guys who actually buy don't talk so much. I've seen that with friends who make kits, or import models, you get a big list of guys who say they are going to buy something, and then when it comes time to actually pay, those guys are all gone.

Me, I buy them and I fly them. Lots of them. I'm glad to share my experiences if someone asks, but it's hard when all the threads about planes are cluttered up with misinformation, rumors, speculation, and nonsense from guys who just talk and don't buy.

The market for bare foam airframes is tiny compared to the market for RTF versions.
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 07:01 PM
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Ignore button . . . . engaged!
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 08:21 PM
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 08:42 PM
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Warspite...you need to take a step back and stop being so aggressive and rude to people. You havent been on these forums(posting) long enough to have the experience several of the members in this thread actually already DO have. Even if you've been flying for several years and just now joining forums, use some online etiquette.
AS of this timestamp, you have 33 posts. Great. Welcome to Rcgroups and have fun. But, who are you to be telling someone else their judgement is off on something because they choose NOT to buy the product(s). Doubletap has already explained WHY he hasnt and he along with a few others have been rather patient and kind in replying to some of your attempts at trying to bate them into an arguement.

Now.....many of us, including me, have bought several things from overseas and do see what the quality is. I have bought RTF planes and have also seen first hand other club members fly many of these rtf or PnP planes. The Starmax F-5 is a good example from Hobby-lobby. Two ppl showed up to the field last sunday with F-5's. Both of them had to have 2 out of the 9 servos replaced right out of the box cuz they didnt work....the retracts are wobbly and only held up to two soft "kisses" of a landing on pavement before the mains snapped....and the planes never got close to 70+MPH stock on the 4s 2200 size battery/fan/motor.
So, if doubletap sees this same occurance at his field, is he not justified in concluding that the internal electronics are not the best quality even though he didnt buy the plane himself? Of course he is. Just because he doesnt own one, doesnt mean he cant have a legitimate opinion about the quality. In the same respect, reading a thread about a plane and seeing what ppl say about it also cant be a basis for forming an opinion about a plane or a group of planes, etc? If thats so, then none of us would be here talking about all these planes and what to watch out for, but instead we'd all be extolling the virtues of what a great deal we got from a rtf plane with defective electronics.

I can also vouch that shipping from Tawain, China, etc. is NOT usually $44-50.
I bought a Kyosho Storch from infinity-hobby in tawain and guess what...it cost me $22 for shipping.
I've also bought some edf planes from e-flypower.com and again the shipping was no where close to $44.
Just as comparison...I put $266 worth of stuff in the cart at Eflypower(including this F-4) and shipping VIA expensive EMS was still only $33
I as well have done a good deal of business with Hobbycity and shipping from them has not been anywhere close to $44-50.
My last shipment only cost $20.54 for shipping.
Previous shipment was over $450 worth of stuff and the ship weight was 7 pounds. It still only cost $41 for shipping
I put a foam EDF in the cart and shipping was $31

I think maybe you need to do a little more research before claiming certain things as fact.
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