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Old Nov 28, 2012, 01:55 PM
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United States, IN, Newburgh
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I hope this thread never dies.....

Hey guys, love the F-4's you've been working with. I've had great success with mine as well. I can say with certainty that this airframe will support the weight and the drag you impart upon it... I've flown mine in all conditions and in all configurations. I would even dare say "............I have Mastered the Landings". Yes, it's true. I've Flapperon'd mine and set the elevators to the proper Anhedral so belly landigs and goofy takeoff-s and landings are simply out of the question... The carbon fiber and plywood tail hook ensure the tail doesn't grab. And after you get the proper mixes dialed in, you don't even scrape the hook... I have a F-4 Fly-By video on Utube...

F-4 Phantom EDF fly-by (0 min 8 sec)



Working on twin 70mm's in my FlyFly F-4...we shall see about that.

Keep up the good work and push the foam as far as it will go.....This F-4 is Sweeeeeet. Enjoy
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Last edited by Bobaroo; Nov 29, 2012 at 10:29 AM. Reason: added video link referenced above
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 02:14 PM
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United States, PA, Doylestown
Joined Sep 2010
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Lookin good!

Bob, they look sweet! Detail work on the gray bird looks excellent; and guessing by the gear doors, would you have retracts in them too? Which retract units do you use?

Happy to see the Blue Angels version too - got one in the box yet and planning to start the build soon. My experience with flaperons hasn't been great; once dropped, flaps cause the nose to pitch down violently and wind up taking about all the up-elevator the plane has. I have reset throws to limits others in here recommend but haven't been able to get out to check (ruptured Achilles' tendons and surgeries). Pass along any hints you have for those nice landings, too
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Old Nov 28, 2012, 04:09 PM
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United States, IN, Newburgh
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Hmmm.....

I remember some pitching issues in the early days with this jet. Seems there was some elevator cancelling going on. I didn't like it. I also remember the flaperons induced a roll aspect that I was able to correct out through mixing.

Once I set the proper down angle on the elevators and got away from that stock configuration the aircraft handled much better at low speeds. I think it's getting cleaner air with the tips of the elevators all the way down there where they are....plus they get a fair share of jet blast from the nozzels cause they're pretty clsoe to the exhaust stream...and they just look better drooped down like that.

These FMS/BH/NP F-4's of mine are all fixed gear Dirty Birds just punching their way through the sky.. I've got some mechanical gear that I'm gonna put into my Brittish Phantom next.... Did I mention that My wingtips fold on one of my F-4's... Hahaha ..... Freaky Cool

Takeoff: I use Zero flaps for take off, about 85% differential on the rudder and roll out...hit the flap switch (position 1 @ 12%) and it comes off the ground perfectly...then flaps off and I'm gone.

Landing: Set the throttle trim to full high.... throttle back to idle on the downwind, flaps Pos 1, throttle up a bit, flaps Pos 2 @ 55%, line up, flaps still down, power still in a bit and still descending...short final, throttle down, hang there with the aircraft just above touchdown,..now use throttle trim lever to land...Perrrrrrfect....

otta have good battery management and know what your battery state is for this to work well, but power on is the only way to go with these jets....I fly most of them this way. Each one has it's peculiarities.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 05:01 AM
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Guys - I will be sure to keep everybody posted on the Fly-Fly. I'll do the aileron mod too, have already bought some torque rods for when Santa drops the airframe down the chimney

This thread has been invaluable to me, hopefully it'll keep going. Some great photos of the F-4 you guys have posted, makes mine look decidedly average!

I the meantime, I will be installing the HET Typhoon 2W-25 and changesun fan tonight (hopefully). I will take a few pictures to document as I go. I'm not envisaging any major issues, although there's no instructions with the fan unit (what are the chances that I install it the wrong way around!)

I thought it worth mentioning as well that I use an onboard Eagle A3 Pro Gyro which makes the F-4 fly like it's on rails, hence the very low level passes in the photos. I am able to switch it on and off in-flight and with it switched off the pitch-up when the throttle is applied is terrible. I guess you could mix some down elevator in to remedy this but I'd really recommend the A3:

Eagle A3 Pro

Andy
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 07:15 AM
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Some video (some low passes only taken on an iPhone):

F-4 Phantom

I'm hoping the Changesun fan will really improve the sound, although it's not all that bad currently.

Will try and get some better footage this weekend.

Andy
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The43rdHammer View Post
I thought it worth mentioning as well that I use an onboard Eagle A3 Pro Gyro which makes the F-4 fly like it's on rails, hence the very low level passes in the photos. I am able to switch it on and off in-flight and with it switched off the pitch-up when the throttle is applied is terrible. I guess you could mix some down elevator in to remedy this but I'd really recommend the A3:

Eagle A3 Pro

Andy
That's great news, Andy - I have installed a Detrum gyro into mine, single-axis, on the elevator, to see if that would help stabilize her some. Haven't been able to try it out yet, but your success is a huge confidence-booster.

And if you think yours looks mediocre, well.... I'll just have to man-up and post a couple pics of mine. IF I can find a camera willing to take the pics

Gotta check your vids now.
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:14 PM
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United States, TX, Grapevine
Joined Jul 2012
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Is everyone close to the manual for the cg? Manual says 150 from the leading edge root. I just finished installing retracts and before cutting into the foam, I failed to measure where my exact cg was.
Was reading on the eflite f-4 thread that you hold the plane right side up when measuring the cg, not inverted (retracts up).
Those who did retracts, where is your cg?
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Old Nov 29, 2012, 08:47 PM
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Right around 141 to 144 mm, and I do it upside down simply because it is so much easier to do; I don't like fighting all that additional mass above the vertical CG when it's upright.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by PikeStaff View Post
Right around 141 to 144 mm, and I do it upside down simply because it is so much easier to do; I don't like fighting all that additional mass above the vertical CG when it's upright.
Thanks Pike. That's about right where I'm at. For some reason, it just felt nose heavy to my ever so precise weight measurement devices (my fat fingers).

Agreed: much easier inverted.
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 11:38 AM
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United States, IN, Newburgh
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CG Spikes

Hey,...I started using little CF tubes as cg index points on all of my aircraft. They protrude about 1/8th inches. This is particularly useful on my TVJets where precise pitching deltas can be easily detected... They stick out just enough to look like little belly drain tubes. I've got "Sausage Fingers" also...These really work nicely on the bigger stuff that is hard to hold on to...You should always check the thrust line on these jets. You'll be surprised where some are indexed.

My F-4's are all at various points forward of the 150mm mark also....Enjoy.
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 04:32 PM
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United States, TX, Grapevine
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Retracts Done

Finished modding mine for E-flite retracts. Used a metal gear servo for the pushrod steering and a lot of ply for bases. Probably didn't go into the wing as far as I could have so I built up a ply base around each mount. Painted them white and used white electrical tape to cover the wiring. You an also see my batt cooling slots underneath. Left an opening at the rear of the nose retract to also allow for cooling.

Now just looking for a day without a ton of wind.
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 04:49 PM
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Destin,Fl
Joined Nov 2002
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Hey guys I have a never flown but I did built ,Hobby -Lobby F4 ARF totally stock. This was a replacement that HL sent me a few years ago when the one I purchased died a painful but quick death when the stock ESC went out. I'll post some pics if any interest. $125.00 plus shipping. Does have a tiny bit of hanger rash.
Robin Bailer Destin,Fl
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 06:52 AM
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Flew mine with the 2W-25 motor and Changesun fans this weekend, big power jump and I could see the battery voltage taking a nose dive on the telemetry when flying with the hammer down.

I didn't get any hint of the hallmark whoosh from the fans though, was a little disappointed by this but I'm wondering whether it's due to the double nozzles to the rear i.e. the air flow isn't being forced through such a small aperture.

would be interested to hear other's experiences (if any) on this?

Andy
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 07:19 AM
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United States, TX, Grapevine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The43rdHammer View Post
Flew mine with the 2W-25 motor and Changesun fans this weekend, big power jump and I could see the battery voltage taking a nose dive on the telemetry when flying with the hammer down.

I didn't get any hint of the hallmark whoosh from the fans though, was a little disappointed by this but I'm wondering whether it's due to the double nozzles to the rear i.e. the air flow isn't being forced through such a small aperture.

would be interested to hear other's experiences (if any) on this?

Andy
It's funny how each airframe is so different. I've got the basic eflite V15 fan and eflite 3600 motor in both my F-4 and an F-18. Both have bifuricated nozzles and intakes and strangely enough, completely different sounds. The F-18 gets a "decent" whoosh sound but the F-4 has a more common edf "whine" sound. Strange considering they have the same motors, fans and similar nozzles.
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The43rdHammer View Post
Flew mine with the 2W-25 motor and Changesun fans this weekend, big power jump and I could see the battery voltage taking a nose dive on the telemetry when flying with the hammer down.

I didn't get any hint of the hallmark whoosh from the fans though, was a little disappointed by this but I'm wondering whether it's due to the double nozzles to the rear i.e. the air flow isn't being forced through such a small aperture.

would be interested to hear other's experiences (if any) on this?

Andy
Can't speak to the sound factor; that's supposed to be the hallmark for the 10-blade fan. That, plus your observation of battery consumption. Were you on 6s power here?

My experience with the 10-blade hasn't been any better. Had one in my Venom F-86 with a Tacon 2550kv motor on 6s - sound wise, it was OK but nuthin that could be called special. Power wise it was just OK too.

The fan does have a reputation as a battery-killer too. But some have had truly great results with the E-Flite BL32 2150kv motor and the 10-blade, good enough to give it a go.
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