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Old Sep 28, 2008, 05:35 PM
Redneck Injuneer
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Bradenton, Florida
Joined Aug 2007
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video link

http://manatee-rc.com/Vids/09-08/Phantom-2.wmv (med res 3.15megs)
http://manatee-rc.com/Vids/09-08/Phantom-2L.wmv (hi res 10.2megs)

He still needs to balance his fan and switch over to Spektrum radio. Flight was cut short after he took a hit on channel 30. As you can see, it will fly from a grass strip though.
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 06:15 PM
LARKS Lexington RC FLYERS
Joined May 2007
110 Posts
Sounds like a esc thats working on going bad if he took a hit midway thru flight. Noticed he backed off the throttle and he regained control. esc that cause glitching as they heat is a good sign of it going bad. Has happened on a few i have had and there name brands too. Sheilding battery lead wires and motor wires with a few layers of aluminum foil will help. 2.4 will to0
But thats a good sign of a esc that is going down hill. Something to ponder gentlemen.
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Old Sep 28, 2008, 07:38 PM
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North Richland Hills, Texas USA
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As Lane has stated above we had 3 really nice flights on the 4 today and I honestly can say it is what they say it is. Easy to launch and flies like it is on rails. On the last flight I had a DR-1 Fokker cross my path and the fight was on. He is extremely overpowered and turns on a time. All I could do was utilize my speed to slash at him and fly on by for the next turn. Never could get a good tone from the AIM-9 and I have no gun so I have to give the match to him. Looked kind of wild with me holding the stick back against the stops while on full burner but what the hell, I'm game and its Lanes toy. Anyway, once the c/g was corrected she flies great. She outruns my EDO F-4 but that is to be expected as the HL model is on 4 cells and the little EDO F-4 is on 3. Both fly great but I really like the HL model as its a little more scale in profile and overall shape as I've been in the back seat of the real bird while serving my time during the Vietnam Conflict way back in 1969-1973. Thats another life and a lot of war stories. ed
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Old Sep 29, 2008, 04:50 PM
LBJ
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Fort Worth, Texas
Joined Nov 2007
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I got a response back from Jay Burkart at Hobby Lobby today on my product complaint. He has referred my issue to the product people who test the toys there. He said he will get me an answer as soon as he gets it. LBJ
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Old Oct 02, 2008, 07:26 PM
LBJ
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Fort Worth, Texas
Joined Nov 2007
702 Posts
This is the response from Jay Burkart at HL. I doubt they will fly it successfully at 165 mm. I doubt they will even try it, personally. They obviously admit no respopnsibility for their error which has led to a number of crashed F-4's based on incorrect CG data. My opinion of HL has definitely sunk of late as I have had problems with the last 2 jets I bought from them, which also includes the F5-E. Basically all I got was "I am sorry about your crash." Luckily, I was able to cobble mine back together and get it flying at the proper CG. Some prebably were not so lucky. LBJ.

(From Jay) I got this back from our product development and test persons,

"I checked the F-4 that I am flying and with the stock battery installed the
CG is at 150mm back from the LE of the wing where it meets the side of the
fuselage. The instructions say the CG is at 165mm or about 9/16" back from
where mine is. I will go fly mine at this CG, but I doubt that it will be
too tail heavy at this position.

The CG that this is suggested is, in my opinion, very nose heavy. Certainly stable at this, but not the least bit necessary. It is 32mm in front of the recommended CG and 17mm in front of where mine is. I am going to have the CG in the instructions changed to 150mm (the place that it ends up without doing anything) as this is a perfect CG. " Product development,

Thanks for your input,
Jay Burkart
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Old Oct 05, 2008, 09:23 PM
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Midland Texas
Joined Jan 2005
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LBJ:

Thanks for the heads up about the CG...I just got mine and am reading this thread for additional tips. Ed Couch: if you've got some comments/mods to make I'd like to hear from you as well (since I've known you for thirty years or so and respect your abilities/opinions)..

"Old Shep"
aka Bill from Midland Texas
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Old Oct 06, 2008, 02:51 AM
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North Richland Hills, Texas USA
Joined Aug 2000
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Bill

The 4 is excellent once set up with proper c/g as noted by lane. Leave the dang landing gear in box unless flying off hard surface. Use a lot of expodentional until she flies by moving the stick not thinking about it. Sounds strange but the beast should be a very smooth flying vehicle not the least twitchy. Nothing worse seeing a fast jet flicking all over the sky, keep things smooth and leave the 3D to the kids. At speed you can tuck the stick back against the stops and she will smoothly come around without using much altitude and I honestly wish she had a rudder as the 4 in a high alpha slow speed flight is hard to push the nose over and the rudder would help directional control greatly. Keep the throttle near the stops for best results as she is "cute" in a slow fly by but in military is where she should be. As stated she is "Sierra Hotel". ed
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Old Oct 06, 2008, 05:31 AM
Redneck Injuneer
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Bradenton, Florida
Joined Aug 2007
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Actually the landing gear works and it will take off nicely from a close cropped grass strip with about a 50 foot roll. (Took mine to MCRC's warbird fly-in this weekend and flew it both days) The grass makes for faster deceleration after the required high speed touch down too.
It would be a lot better if it had retracts though since it dangling down & dirty does hurt top speed a bit and detracts from it's in flight appearance.

I guess I must have gotten a "good one" considering some of the problems I've read in this thread. I have 8 flights on mine now with no real problems other than the learning curve of setting it down hot after being used to the landing characteristics of my little F-16 which will land nose high at about 2 mph if I want it to.
My best advice is to ignore the manual for the most part, use epoxy instead of the included glue(?) and take the extra time to balance the fan for quieter operation and longer life.
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Old Oct 06, 2008, 12:57 PM
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North Richland Hills, Texas USA
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Bill

My opinion on the landing gear is just that an opinion. To me it is simply a waste of power to try and get a ducted fan vehicle to ROG from a grass runway. As stated, the only time you fly with gear down is in the pattern so technically you are in the pattern all the times. The difference in top speed is also an issue as so many people feel that the stock vehicle should be doing a hundred MPH which to me is out of scope. Clean the vehicle presents its self well at about 75 MPH and flies good enough for me to want to fly it for fun and not necessarly just for show. For the money, its a very nice vehicle, the color is a joke and I can't believe they put it out like that but what the hell its a fun flying bird. Now if yours come with non-working servos and other hardware that is another issue and Hobby Lobby should be held accountable. The same goes for the Center-of-Gravity being incorrect. We all have seen the video of the F4 on the Hobby Lobby site and it gave no hint of a problem with the C/G so our understanding it that it was fine, it was way off and no addendum was added to the specification sheet. Shame on them and we will remember. There are trash haulers, dump trucks, and fighters and I prefer the fighter so I fly clean and the throttle past the stops. However you fly it, have fun. Also, I have never considered the birds landing as being high speed. I set the alpha angle as I roll in on final and use throttle to the point of touchdown. Many times touching down with power still on. Nice and smooth that way with no damage as a result to underside of vehicle. ed
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Old Oct 06, 2008, 06:10 PM
Redneck Injuneer
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Bradenton, Florida
Joined Aug 2007
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Hi Ed
I was actually impressed by the performance of this one off the grass. It was getting airborne in about 50 feet compared to about a 200 foot run for my EJF A-10 to build enough speed for lift off through the grass. (I'm running mild 3w's in it for longer flight times on a single 4s 4500 evo30).
I'm happy with the 70 or so that the Phantom runs too, but with gear on you have to keep the speed up to keep the nose up while landing. It has to settle in on the mains 1st or it will jump back into the air on you. I'm a little bit gun shy of atempting a solo hand lauch on it too.
Even with the color scheme it's still a great looking plane though, in the air and on the ground. I've always like the shape of the Phantom. When I want to break the 100 mph barrier I have my little EF-16 mod.
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 07:31 PM
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I maidened my HL F-4 today with tragic results. Using the stock power setup at about 3 minutes into the flight the motor shut down along with radio control. Model contacted Mother Earth and turned into foam confetti. When I checked the battery, the voltage was 6.1. I'm relatively new to the EDF game but shouldn't the ESC shut down the motor and retain radio control?Has anyone else experienced this problem with the HL F-4? Thanks for any info.
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 07:37 PM
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Miami,FL
Joined Jun 2007
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Did you check the voltage before the flight?



Quote:
Originally Posted by hoghead385
I maidened my HL F-4 today with tragic results. Using the stock power setup at about 3 minutes into the flight the motor shut down along with radio control. Model contacted Mother Earth and turned into foam confetti. When I checked the battery, the voltage was 6.1. I'm relatively new to the EDF game but shouldn't the ESC shut down the motor and retain radio control?Has anyone else experienced this problem with the HL F-4? Thanks for any info.
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 08:48 PM
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I did Rick. I charged the kit battery while I flew another model and fresh off the charger it read 16.6 and all the cell balanced. It had excellent power for take off and flew great until it lost throttle and flight controls all at once. Back at home, I charged the battery and it took 1825 mah (2200 4S) and all cells look good??????? I tried the battery back in the model (what was left) and the servos and fan unit work fine??????
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 09:05 PM
Redneck Injuneer
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Bradenton, Florida
Joined Aug 2007
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Sounds like a "brownout" to me. Are you by chance using a Spektrum?
If the bec portion of the esc shuts off even momentarily it can put a spek rx in failsafe and can take several seconds before it re-initializes. I've had it happen once (differnt model) also with disasterous results.
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Old Oct 14, 2008, 09:18 PM
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I am Bill, JR 9303 2.4 rig. If it was a brownout, it couldn't have happed at a worst time, about half a mistake high in a left turn! I'm debating on whether or not to try and piece the beast back together. If I do, I think I'll try another esc????
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