Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Jul 25, 2008, 08:40 PM
Aerobatics!
JGAF's Avatar
United States, CA, Carlsbad
Joined Nov 2007
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Thanks for everything, Adam. Do you mind if I quote the information about the stuff on your website in my first post?

Justin
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Old Jul 25, 2008, 08:47 PM
Just fly it!
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Cody, WY
Joined Nov 2007
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Sure, that would be fine.

I shipped 16 orders today, and am almost out. I'm going to have to adjust my prices. After the Paypal fees, shipping, packing materials, and material costs I made a wopping $34.00. I would have made more money working for minimum wage . It's all part of the learning process I guess.

Adam
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Old Jul 25, 2008, 10:45 PM
PWP!
ajroahkni's Avatar
USA, HI, Makawao
Joined Oct 2002
3,901 Posts
I like the idea of the wider width (18") that you're selling. It's a lot cleaner to be able to wrap the wing core like a taco with one piece of New STuff! and not have to worry about the overlap "turbulator" mucking up a clean finish. Would a 24" width cover any/all wings (12" root chord)? How wide are flying wing root chords anyway?
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Old Jul 26, 2008, 12:18 AM
Aerobatics!
JGAF's Avatar
United States, CA, Carlsbad
Joined Nov 2007
2,394 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajroahkni
I like the idea of the wider width (18") that you're selling. It's a lot cleaner to be able to wrap the wing core like a taco with one piece of New STuff! and not have to worry about the overlap "turbulator" mucking up a clean finish. Would a 24" width cover any/all wings (12" root chord)? How wide are flying wing root chords anyway?
Some flying wings like the CombatWings XL have chords that are like 20 inches. I usually add something to the LE of any airplane I build to prevent delamination over time, however this might not be necessary with the new stuff. Maybe some electrical tape or something that can also be used as a good way to outline designs.

Justin
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Old Jul 26, 2008, 12:29 AM
Just fly it!
wyowindworks's Avatar
Cody, WY
Joined Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajroahkni
I like the idea of the wider width (18") that you're selling. It's a lot cleaner to be able to wrap the wing core like a taco with one piece of New STuff! and not have to worry about the overlap "turbulator" mucking up a clean finish. Would a 24" width cover any/all wings (12" root chord)? How wide are flying wing root chords anyway?
It's nice to get some good overlap on the LE and TE. I think the 27" would get it done on a JW for instance.

I'm planning on stocking more widths once I get the shipping/business costs figured out.

Adam
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Old Jul 26, 2008, 12:47 AM
Put in all the lead
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Devon, UK
Joined Dec 2003
1,590 Posts
I had trouble trying to do top and bottom surfaces in one piece as described above. Got the top surface on OK, wrapped round the LE, then found that the Stuff wouldn't lay flat on the bottom. been trying to figure this out and I suspect that if you were to "unpeel" the surfaces of a tapered wing you would find that they don't form a perfectly flat 2D sheet (if that makes sense). The Stuff needs to shrink a bit to conform to the required shape which, particularly the DI film, doesn't like to do at all.

Maybe I've got this reasoning wrong, it's hard to visualise what is actually happening. Maybe others can make it work so I wish you luck with it.

Steve
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Old Jul 26, 2008, 12:55 AM
PWP!
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USA, HI, Makawao
Joined Oct 2002
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Steve,

I read what you wrote and see exactly what you mean. It's a very good point. Two piece being better than one. (and a 12" width sure does cut down on shipping costs.)

The NS does shrink (or in the SUPER BURRLY's case, deform) when pushed too hard.

John
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Old Jul 26, 2008, 12:55 AM
Just fly it!
wyowindworks's Avatar
Cody, WY
Joined Nov 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n-tropic
I had trouble trying to do top and bottom surfaces in one piece as described above. Got the top surface on OK, wrapped round the LE, then found that the Stuff wouldn't lay flat on the bottom. been trying to figure this out and I suspect that if you were to "unpeel" the surfaces of a tapered wing you would find that they don't form a perfectly flat 2D sheet (if that makes sense). The Stuff needs to shrink a bit to conform to the required shape which, particularly the DI film, doesn't like to do at all.

Maybe I've got this reasoning wrong, it's hard to visualise what is actually happening. Maybe others can make it work so I wish you luck with it.

Steve
That is my experience also.
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Old Jul 26, 2008, 10:24 AM
The Predator
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Golden, Colorado
Joined Dec 2004
3,565 Posts
Just because you guys are my favorite pioneers, I want to help. I wish there were more like you all!

I had those same overlap issues bothering me too and here's what I do. I use the two panels per side to avoid the wrinkles. Wrinkles will form where ever the LE is AT ALL bent, convex or concave front to back so the one piece covering move is usually a pipe dream, possible but. . . I do the LE overlaps, top panels applied first, and overlapping WAY back to your spar, where the surface is generally a tad mucked up anyway. Because I am using CF ribbons laid flat, I have the covering basically butt up to it and it comes out NICE and VERY tough. I do that on both sides and you can BARELY feel the edges!
All you have to do is cover one side and then firmly wrap the remaining covering for the LE around the LE until it reaches the spar on the other side. Mark it so it will butt right up aganist the spar when trimmed with a straight edge. I just finished a plank wing as thin as a sub micro servo, near the root! It is INSANE stiff light and fairly easy to do. I have a few more tricks like that as well but, those will be for later.

P.S. John, you are a GREAT builder and, I think you'll be using new stuff FOREVER! Buy the 2 bigger rolls BCH/10 mil CP film and save us the run around and YOU the shipping costs of multiple orders! or at least the bigger roll from Adam.

Adam, now you know why I just gave up on selling the stuff. I make $35/hour doing most ANYTHING but rerolling new stuff and running to the post office. I charged too little as well but, I have this feeling I would have been WAY LESS POPULAR if I had actually asked for reasonable compensation for my time and work, so I had to bail. Hopefully this post will reveal some of the realities of the REAL costs and allow you to be compensated fairly so WE CAN ALL ENJOY THE DESIGNS OF A GUY WHO WORKS HARD TO MAKE GREAT SHIPS with an open minded approuch using lots of R&D!!! If this is worth ANYTHING to you guys, PAY UP! or be left behind with the same'ol same'ol!
Good luck pioneers and thank-you! I will join you if you need/want a sounding board. I love that stuff! I have a mini design that IS the fastest simplest build/design I've EVER seen/developed! It is fun tough and EASY to build!
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Old Jul 26, 2008, 11:32 AM
Registered User
San Bruno CA (near San Francisco)
Joined May 2007
192 Posts
Painting On Top of New Stuff

I was pretty successful painting on top of New Stuff using a plastic adhesion promoter from SEM (SEM39863) that I picked up at an auto body repair supply shop. Here's a link to this product:

http://www.tcpglobal.com/autobodydep...emno=SEM+39863

The instructions call for a 5 minute "flash coat" followed by a second coat, and then paint application around 15-30 minutes later. I have attached before and after pictures of a test piece I did a while ago. After preparing the surface with SEM plastic adhesion promoter I sprayed a few quick coats of red Rustoleum spray paint and let it dry 22 hours. The after photo shows the result of hammering on the left, attacking with hammer and Phillips screwdriver in the middle, and then attacking with glancing blows using a big piece of gravel on the right. There's no chipping or flaking, but the gravel attack scraped off some color.

When I painted my Bee I first used some fine steel wool to take the shine off the New Stuff (both CP and some stiff non-shiny, I think DI material that Karl sent me, over the wing center). The SEM instructions call for sanding with 400 paper. Then I put on the adhesion promoter followed by a few coats of Rustoleum fluorescent spray paint. The paint is holding up well, but hard impacts on rock will make scratches. On the bottom I just used black packing tape at the center and at mid-wing to create contrast.

If you want free samples of laminating films, you can e-mail Scott@laminatorwarehouse.com. I asked him for samples of the following five films. He didn't have 7/3 LL in stock, but he put a package together of the others and shipped them out the day after I inquired.

5 mil CP
10 mil CP
3/2 DI
3/2 LL
7/3 LL


Mitch
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Old Jul 26, 2008, 10:21 PM
Aerobatics!
JGAF's Avatar
United States, CA, Carlsbad
Joined Nov 2007
2,394 Posts
Thanks for your input, Karl.

Mitch that looks really good, I think the paint will be fine if somebody is looking to build a model that they don't intend on crashing as much as an EPP model is usually crashed.

I wouldn't really expect paint to stick to any airplane all that well, no matter what the material. If you have a midair purposeful or not, or you drive your plane in to the ground repeatedly a paint job probably won't stick well, but then again, neither do any of the other covering options.

I think the idea about the plastic adhesion promoter is something that can be used on more than just the New Stuff.

Justin
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Old Jul 26, 2008, 11:58 PM
Have plane, will crash
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Australia, VIC, Newport
Joined Oct 2006
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Old Jul 27, 2008, 12:19 AM
kiwi Ingenuity since 91
Joined Oct 2007
75 Posts
This New Stuff is amazing
I have used this on my reaper I have recently built
incredibly stiff any way back to what to put on top

I found out that any shrink wrap such as, solarfilm and most likely ultracote will cover the burly and turn out quite nice.Also Vinyl sticks well

Cheers, Emil
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Old Aug 01, 2008, 11:54 PM
Aerobatics!
JGAF's Avatar
United States, CA, Carlsbad
Joined Nov 2007
2,394 Posts
Okay, so this thread has become bigger than I expected it would be. School is starting and that's a bigger priority for me.

There's a lot of information, and I honestly don't want to, and don't really have the time to sort through all of it and organize it in to the original post for quick access.

If anyone else would like to revise the original post, and put more information in to it then go ahead. I can just Copy/Paste it in to the first post or quote it.

Thanks,

Justin
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Old Aug 02, 2008, 12:08 AM
Slope Stud
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United States, CA, Oceanside
Joined May 2001
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Justin,

Where you been?

Are you still in town?

Oran
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