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Old Jul 16, 2008, 12:23 AM
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United States, CA, Big Bear Lake
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FAQ
The Predator's "New Stuff"

I made this thread to brainstorm a little bit about what kind of applications this stuff could be used for, since Karl's busy and can't really provide the information or continue testing it. I would appreciate it if other people would ask questions and help solve problems, because when it comes to rigidity and ease of application this stuff is the best (from what I've heard)


Information taken from http://wyowindworks.com/newstuff.html
Quote:
What is the "New Stuff"?
The "New Stuff" is an covering material for EPP foam that is more durable, faster building, cheaper, and more rigid than the standard covering method. This process was developed by "Predator" of predatorwings.com.
What Are the Drawbacks?
Unfortunately, the "New Stuff" is clear and difficult to color. Light coats of spray paint can be applied directly onto the EPP foam, or accent colors can be added using thin sign vinyl. Also, the "New Stuff" doesn't like to go around compound curves. Many small relief cuts need to be made to negotiate things like wing tips.

Product Info
The "New Stuff" from Wyoming Wind Works presently comes in two forms. The 5 mil light (12" wide) and the 10 mil Heavy (18" wide). The 5 mil Light creates a very rigid structure and is the lightest of the two options. The 10 mil Heavy is for those who are looking for maximum durability and better conformability. A hybrid wing can be done by putting 5 mil Light on the top and 10 mil Heavy on the bottom. Spray adhesive is NOT necessary or recommended when applying the "New Stuff". Instructions for the "New Stuff" are NOT available, yet. The links below may help with it's installation.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=New+Stuff
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ight=New+Stuff
******I will edit this post to include vital information about Karl's new covering as progress is made. This way it will become like a FAQ rather than just a thread.

If anybody has an issue with the direction the topic is headed they can either PM me or bring it up by posting.

Don't forget to include pictures if you have them otherwise I will be forced to hunt for them myself

Justin


Suppliers of the New Stuff

http://www.laminatorwarehouse.com/di_films.shtml#232


Quote:
Originally Posted by wyowindworks
The plasti-ply light is the DI 3/2 5 mil - HERE
The BCH (Blallisti-cover-heavy) is the CP 10 mil - HERE
The Burly is the 7/3 LL 10 mil - HERE
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyowindworks
I have a bunch on order and will be selling it soon at Wyoming Wind Works.
The new stuff is now available from Adam, check out the link in this quote for more information!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyowindworks
I've got "New Stuff" available here: Wyoming Wind Works

I'm selling it in 10' increments. I've got the 5 mil 3/2 DI (Plastic-Ply Light) in 12" widths and the 10 mil CP (BCH) in 18" widths.

Adam
Adam
Possible Suppliers of the New Stuff


For the UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by si-fly
Also found this in the UK

http://www.bindingbazaar.com/laminating_film.asp They do 250 micron x 635mm x 60m for £65 +vat, not checked postage though.

These also do 250 micron http://www.elmstok.co.uk/lamfilm.html

10mil = 250Micron.
Si.
Quote:
Originally Posted by si-fly
Here's a product brochure for a UK manufacturer, lots of types of film here even some white and black.

http://www.payne-worldwide.com/docum...oated_film.pdf

Si.

Applying designs to your model


[QUOTE=wyowindworks]Most of the new stuff goes on in the 230 degree range. I haven't had any issues with krylon paint underneath the laminating film. Just keep the paint thin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyowindworks
Last night I did a new wing for my next Slope Monkey. I used the "New Stuff" in the "Plastic Ply Light" variation. I used florescent krylon directly onto the foam. There is absolutley NO TAPE on this wing at all. It's the fastest I've ever been able to do a foamy wing.

Man, this wing came out stiff! It is significantly stiffer than you could ever get with the tape, goop, covering method. It seem to distort less then the reglular coving method also.

We will have to see how she handles some abuse. I'm doing a gooped fuse, also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wyowindworks
Last night I did a new wing for my next Slope Monkey. I used the "New Stuff" in the "Plastic Ply Light" variation. I used florescent krylon directly onto the foam. There is absolutley NO TAPE on this wing at all. It's the fastest I've ever been able to do a foamy wing.

Man, this wing came out stiff! It is significantly stiffer than you could ever get with the tape, goop, covering method. It seem to distort less then the reglular coving method also.

We will have to see how she handles some abuse. I'm doing a gooped fuse, also.


Adam
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajroahkni
Zagi tape does an adequate job in providing some decoration/orientation on New STuff.

Ideas that are not yet tested


With the "New Stuff"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Robert
I have seen and felt some planes with the new stuff. It is really strong and smooth, but I need to add some color to my planes and it doesn't seem too friendly for this.

While reading a past issue of the AMA mag, I noticed an article in the Free Flight Section (flying aces club) about how they add color and I think it might work with the new stuff.

What they do is to print out the design on tissue paper (using a standard computer printer), or just cut out thier design with colored tissue paper and apply it with dope where they want it.

I think you could do this first and apply the new stuff over it. The tissue is so thin that maybe the adhesive you use to apply the new stuff would actually seep through the tissue to give you a good bond. You may have some problems with the colors fadeing over time due to UV rays, but it's worth a try.


Robert
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 12:33 AM
Just fly it!
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Cody, WY
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Most of the new stuff goes on in the 230 degree range. I haven't had any issued with krylon paint underneath the laminating film. Just keep the paint thin.

Adam
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 12:42 AM
San Diego North County
Del Mar
Joined Feb 2007
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New stuff

I have seen and felt some planes with the new stuff. It is really strong and smooth, but I need to add some color to my planes and it doesn't seem too friendly for this.

While reading a past issue of the AMA mag, I noticed an article in the Free Flight Section (flying aces club) about how they add color and I think it might work with the new stuff.

What they do is to print out the design on tissue paper (using a standard computer printer), or just cut out thier design with colored tissue paper and apply it with dope where they want it.

I think you could do this first and apply the new stuff over it. The tissue is so thin that maybe the adhesive you use to apply the new stuff would actually seep through the tissue to give you a good bond. You may have some problems with the colors fadeing over time due to UV rays, but it's worth a try.

Robert
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 12:46 AM
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United States, CA, Big Bear Lake
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What I'm really looking to do is compile a list of links to websites where you can get the materials for both the actual covering material and the material that could be used to put designs on it.

For example, if you could provide the name of the business or a website where you could get the tissue paper, or if there's a special kind of ink you would use, that would be excellent.

Justin


Edit: I'll add a special section for ideas.
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 03:57 AM
If it ain't broke...break it!
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South Coast, UK
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Has anyone found a UK supplier yet? I've been hunting but I need to track down some more details of the material to narrow the search.
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 05:31 AM
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I would also be interested in a UK supplier...will most film work? and do the glues very alot?

Si.
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 07:08 AM
If it ain't broke...break it!
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This stuff seems to be closest in description and price to New Stuff, and available in the UK. Some more research will be carried out to see if I'm right!
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 09:28 AM
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Also found this in the UK

http://www.bindingbazaar.com/laminating_film.asp They do 250 micron x 635mm x 60m for £65 +vat, not checked postage though.

These also do 250 micron http://www.elmstok.co.uk/lamfilm.html

10mil = 250Micron.
Si.
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 12:09 PM
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Just keep in mind that there's a lot of different laminating films out there
and they are not all the same in terms of strength, flexibility, durability
and adhesive. By way of comparison, think about how many different
types of clear tapes there are on the market, and how most of them are
actually pretty worthless for our purposes, while a very small number
stand out.

ian
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 12:11 PM
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Designing on new stuff

Zagi tape does an adequate job in providing some decoration/orientation on New STuff.
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 01:12 PM
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Here's a product brochure for a UK manufacturer, lots of types of film here even some white and black.

http://www.payne-worldwide.com/docum...oated_film.pdf

Si.
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Old Jul 16, 2008, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajroahkni
Zagi tape does an adequate job in providing some decoration/orientation on New STuff.
Let's see those stripes after a few rounds of combat. I've had trouble
getting anything to stay stuck to it, including Zagi tape. It's just
slippery stuff.

ian
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Old Jul 17, 2008, 06:57 AM
No Plane - No Gain
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My New Stuff covered combat wing is doing pretty well with some artwork drawn on with a few 'Sharpies' ( permanent magic marker ). It does wear off in those places where I hold it, but is easy to re-apply.
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Old Jul 17, 2008, 08:41 AM
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UK sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon
Just keep in mind that there's a lot of different laminating films out there
and they are not all the same in terms of strength, flexibility, durability
and adhesive. By way of comparison, think about how many different
types of clear tapes there are on the market, and how most of them are
actually pretty worthless for our purposes, while a very small number
stand out.

ian
Wise words here. I am looking for a UK source too but just comparing the range of prices from the UK suppliers you can find on the net suggests that something is going on wrt variation in quality / properties. None of these UK suppliers are offering the kind of information about structural integrity etc. which is on the http://www.laminatorwarehouse.com site and none of them are talking about DI or CP films or anything apparently equivalent. Their ranges are generally much more limited too. Sure you could ring them up but 10 gets you 1 you would get bullshitted about how their product is just what you want.

Somebody on this side of the pond needs to do what Karl did and spend out on different products to identify the best. Any takers? I thought not. One in the eye to those who slagged Karl off for wanting to make a few bucks from all his research.

I think the safest bet for UK people is probably to import from the States for now until someone happens to come across the "right stuff" over here. The dollar prices at http://www.laminatorwarehouse.com are actually very cheap compared to some of the UK prices anyway. Expect shipping to at least double it but - what the hey!

Of course anyone planning to import in quantity to make a margin on distributing it here could get caught out if a UK source emerges. Self organised group buys would seem to be the ticket.

Steve
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Old Jul 17, 2008, 01:38 PM
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Goop is *the* glue for the new stuff. So about gooping the entire wing thinnly. Then, mask out your design, apply colored goop, remove mask and add the new stuff?

<edit>
hmm, goop would probably stick to the mask. Anybody have an idea for clean tape lines with goop?
</edit>
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