Espritmodel.com Telemetry Radio
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 10:04 AM
Challenge is rewarding
djklein21's Avatar
San Diego, CA
Joined Aug 2004
5,525 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by glderguy
I notice after TLs post about the 3421 flap servo failing the focus has been on the servo failure aspect of his flight that day. Id be much more concerned about the 2.4 lockout they experienced that may have resulted in the plane being brought from altitude in a hurry? Whats up with the 2.4 lockout anyway? I want to switch over to 2.4 but when I read stuff like that makes me nervous.
Walter
That is why Spektrum systems have data loggers and a more advanced range check than 72MHz systems. It seems that people forget that we make special antennas and play hell gettig 72MHz systems to get good links. At least with 2.4 you get actual data feedback on the strength of signal. with 72 you have to just fly it and see if you get a lockout (PCM) or some twitchy fllight surfaces (FM).

BTW, when incorperating 2.4 in 2.4 friendly planes, I have had a 100% success rate on the first shot. No need to reposition gear or anything.
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 11:36 AM
Chris Lee
United States, MO, St. Louis
Joined Oct 2005
310 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by schrederman
Right now I just have them taped on. What do you guys use for attaching the servo covers in a semi-permanent fashion. I was considering clear silicone... but whudda I know

I use little dabs of Goop all along the leading edge side of the cover then just 2-3 more dabs on the sides and trailing edge side. No layer-of-tape protrusion on the bottom of the wing, holds very securely and is easy to remove just by sliding a hobby knife under it. Once the cover is removed, the cured goop is easy to peel off and it's ready to be glued again. Even though I don't usually care much about the appearance of my planes (just how they fly), it is much cleaner-looking when the covers are cut to fit and there's no outline of tape holding them down.

Chris
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 11:48 AM
Eggcellent...
tewatson's Avatar
United States, CA, Orange
Joined Oct 2006
2,420 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by atjurhs
I'm thinking that I'd like to have two wide white bands on the bottom of the wing at each end of the center panel. I was also thinking of using Monokote trim w/ adhesive backing (I don't think I want to iron on regular Monokote), but I'm thinking that might be prone to leaving bubbles.
Float it on with window cleaner spray. Lightly squeegee out from the center, using a credit card or one of those stiff sign vinyl tools. It can be peeled/resprayed/readjusted while the slight liquid film is still present.

Flawless when dry, looks like paint. No bubbles or wrinkles. I put a white stripe on my Pike wing using this method.

Tom
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 11:53 AM
agony sweetns the victory
atjurhs's Avatar
Any Flying Field Across America
Joined Jul 2005
3,513 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tewatson
Float it on with window cleaner spray. Lightly squeegee out from the center, using a credit card or one of those stiff sign vinyl tools. It can be peeled/resprayed/readjusted while the slight liquid film is still present.

Flawless when dry, looks like paint. No bubbles or wrinkles. I put a white stripe on my Pike wing using this method.

Tom
Tom, using which material, just regular Monokote?
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 12:35 PM
RIP MC
fnnwizard's Avatar
United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
3,194 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by glderguy
I notice after TLs post about the 3421 flap servo failing the focus has been on the servo failure aspect of his flight that day. Id be much more concerned about the 2.4 lockout they experienced that may have resulted in the plane being brought from altitude in a hurry? Whats up with the 2.4 lockout anyway? I want to switch over to 2.4 but when I read stuff like that makes me nervous.
Walter
Hi Walter,

I've not had a lockout with the Futaba 2.4g, should I add yet?

My friend was specked out directly overhead and out of the blue ask what a lockout feels like and I thought he was joking. I ask "are you serious, you think you got a lockout" He responded with an " I think I just did". I was still thinking he was kidding. I told him don't scare me like that and he said he thought he did for like an instant.

I don't take what he says lightly either, so came home and double checked everything and unless the RX is bad, can't see how it would be. When I did an initial range check (partial power w/ Futaba) and even with the model sitting right on the ground, it was very good in all 360 degrees.

The way Futaba does it is with 2 ant on a single RX but only about an inch of the ant is "live".

One end sits near the nose across the fuse under the battery in a channel made by foam tape that the battery sits on. The other was taped to the left side of fuse near the elevator servo at a slight angle upward.

From every which angle the TX should "see" the ant.


Anyway, don't let this scare ya Walter. I would trust the 2.4 over any 72 system.

Tuan
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 01:29 PM
Eggcellent...
tewatson's Avatar
United States, CA, Orange
Joined Oct 2006
2,420 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by atjurhs
Tom, using which material, just regular Monokote?
Trim, I think. Comes in a couple of widths and you buy it by the foot. Also has a peel-away backing paper. It wasn't labeled.

Sorry, I'm Monokote ignorant - the last framed plane I built was in the tissue/dope days.

Tom
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 11:05 PM
Much to my CHAGRIN . . .
machild's Avatar
Bellflower, CA
Joined Mar 2005
462 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnnwizard
I've not had a lockout with the Futaba 2.4g, should I add yet?

My friend was specked out directly overhead and out of the blue ask what a lockout feels like and I thought he was joking. I ask "are you serious, you think you got a lockout" He responded with an " I think I just did". I was still thinking he was kidding. I told him don't scare me like that and he said he thought he did for like an instant.

I don't take what he says lightly either, so came home and double checked everything and unless the RX is bad, can't see how it would be. When I did an initial range check (partial power w/ Futaba) and even with the model sitting right on the ground, it was very good in all 360 degrees.

The way Futaba does it is with 2 ant on a single RX but only about an inch of the ant is "live".

One end sits near the nose across the fuse under the battery in a channel made by foam tape that the battery sits on. The other was taped to the left side of fuse near the elevator servo at a slight angle upward.

From every which angle the TX should "see" the ant.
Hey Tuan,

Didn't mean to scare you, but the Explorer felt a little odd a couple of times. Both times I wanted opposite aileron to counter my turn and flatten out the wing a bit, and both times the ship did not respond to my input. That's when I asked what a lock-out feels like. The unresponsiveness lasted only a few seconds at a time, but it was very noticeable to me.

Did I experience lock-outs? Who knows; what ever I felt didn't feel right.

That's when I felt that it would be safer to drop the flaps and head for the ground. On the walk back to the winch, the Explorer's right flap dropped all by itself about 40 degrees and croaked. For you Python fans: The servo was no more…

Glad to hear that your system checked out OK, but how can you tell if you've experienced a lock-out with the Futaba gear you use?

Mark
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 11:07 PM
WINS - Winch In Nose Sailplane
jaizon's Avatar
USA, NH
Joined Mar 2008
3,080 Posts
Would a couple of you guys mind posting a quick couple of photos of your flap and aileron control horn installations. The photo below shows my current situation. Seems like with the hole over the hinge line that it's awful close to the upper wing surface. I just get the feeling that the mechanics will be very poor with this low position, but that's how the wing came. Any thoughts are most welcome. Thanks.

Walt, sending you a PM on the radio thing. Problem solved.
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 11:15 PM
Eggcellent...
tewatson's Avatar
United States, CA, Orange
Joined Oct 2006
2,420 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by machild
For you Python fans: The servo was no more…
This.....is an EX servo!

Tom
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Old Jan 20, 2009, 11:39 PM
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SmokinJoe101's Avatar
Joined Jan 2004
919 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnnwizard
Hi Walter,

I've not had a lockout with the Futaba 2.4g, should I add yet?

Tuan
Tuan,

Too bad Futaba does not have a data logger to see if indeed lock out did occur.

Trust me, if you get lock out you WILL know the JR data logger is there to verify so you can make the correct adjustments.

sj
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 03:09 AM
RIP MC
fnnwizard's Avatar
United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
3,194 Posts
Yeah, I wish there was a logger for us Futaba users to check integrity of system at altitude. Maybe in near future?

I guess once the system checks out fine on the ground it's a leap of faith that it works well in the air.

I think I got the servo issues squared away. End points adjusted so butterfly throw for flaps is 101% instead of maxing out at 130%. I can go to 117% before the servo "bottoms out" and does not move anymore. At that level, I get like 91 degrees of flap there but you can really hear the servo buzzing like mad, top skin flexing and amp pull per servo in the .78A with out any flight loads.

At 101% butterfly throw, the current is .44 and flaps around 85 degrees with just a slight distortion of upper skin. My flap servos' "atvs" are max at the 140% so I am using almost all the servos range of movement. I guess I could drill another hole just slightly closer to the center of the out to gain a little better resolution and go the 117%. Moving to next inner hole on stock arm is too much movement.

Did the gear adjustment thing and got minimum gear play at neutral so I am very happy now. Also, I went back and flexed the flap to max movement (more than 90degrees) and lightly scored the hingeline a second time to free up that last few degrees there and I think the servos should really like that now.
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Last edited by fnnwizard; Jan 21, 2009 at 03:23 AM.
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 03:27 AM
RIP MC
fnnwizard's Avatar
United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
3,194 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaizon
Would a couple of you guys mind posting a quick couple of photos of your flap and aileron control horn installations. The photo below shows my current situation. Seems like with the hole over the hinge line that it's awful close to the upper wing surface. I just get the feeling that the mechanics will be very poor with this low position, but that's how the wing came. Any thoughts are most welcome. Thanks.

Walt, sending you a PM on the radio thing. Problem solved.
You are fine there Jaizon. Just use inner holes on servo arm. Do make sure and try and get the distances (vertical and horizontal) as close as possible to other flap horn.

On mine the h distance, trailing edge of flap to front edge of hole of horn is almost exact at 73.63mm, but height is off my .5mm so my flaps would not deploy at exact distance, but I fixed that with the radio.
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 09:36 AM
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djklein21's Avatar
San Diego, CA
Joined Aug 2004
5,525 Posts
Tuan, what is this about inner holes and outer holes? I thought you built it with RDS?
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 09:43 AM
RIP MC
fnnwizard's Avatar
United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
3,194 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by djklein21
Tuan, what is this about inner holes and outer holes? I thought you built it with RDS?
Hi Dave, I only did ail in RDS, flaps are standard. I was trying to answer Jaizon's ?'s.
On my next Xplorer I will be doing flap rds too. Got another reason and that is holding power seems lots more and current draw is less at full deflection. Less likely to burn one up the way I just did.
Tuan
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Old Jan 21, 2009, 09:49 AM
4 wheels move a body; 2 a soul
Saratoga, Ca
Joined Feb 2004
1,460 Posts
Yes too bad Futaba didnt make a logger. None the less, if you suffer control loss, lose the plane, logger or not its destroyed, but you will have the satisfaction of knowing, while standing over your 2500.00 worth of crumpled molded beauty, that it was totally destroyed due to 2.4 lockout. If you had a logger I mean. Beats just guessing like you would if you lost one on 72 though. BTW, didnt someone on US F3J team crash or lose control or something like that due to 2.4 issues??
Walter
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