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Old Aug 20, 2010, 04:15 PM
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Guys - c'mon we are all adults, and truly I love to hear you guys bicker about.
Truly in my limited experience all of you have contributed greatly. Without the argument of who has the best plane it would not be worth it. So this is great. I love both the X and the Aspire, and the Victor and the etc... etc....
Yes - Start an Aspire thread to continue with the build you guys are too quiet
Yes - Continue from the X thread as I use some of this feedback for ideas on other stuff I'm working on, and explains what I see from other pilots when they fly. So this is great both the good and the bad! Love you guys!!!!

jack ~
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Old Aug 20, 2010, 07:02 PM
or F, J, K, or even TD
FLY F3B's Avatar
Joined Jun 2007
2,913 Posts
Guys, I am really sorry to have seemingly derailed this thread. Not my intention at all. I personally believe that the X is probably the best valued TD/J glider made available by the single best distributer in the states. So, while I am not a tinkerer, that by no means should read that I think that it is not cool, necessary, and interesting to see stuff that tuan and others post.

Now back to your regularly schedule X posts.

Sincerely,

Mike Smith
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Old Aug 20, 2010, 07:34 PM
Sink Stinks
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Orange County, CA
Joined Aug 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLY F3B View Post
I personally believe that the X is probably the best valued TD/J glider made available by the single best distributer in the states.
And don't you forget it F3B Boy!!
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Old Aug 20, 2010, 08:11 PM
Eggcellent...
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United States, CA, Orange
Joined Oct 2006
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Except the orange ones...

Tom
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Old Aug 20, 2010, 10:46 PM
Fly R/C writer
Redlands, Ca
Joined Dec 2004
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"Guys, I am really sorry...."

Oh really? So, how sorry are you? Well, how about you just flop on the floor, get down and give me 20!


(Never mind, I just tried and couldn't)

Mike
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Old Aug 21, 2010, 01:13 AM
or F, J, K, or even TD
FLY F3B's Avatar
Joined Jun 2007
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1, 2, 3....4.............5......uuummmph....6 but I'm an rc guy, I'm only good for a half dozen.
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Old Aug 21, 2010, 01:41 AM
Sink Stinks
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Orange County, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tewatson View Post
Except the orange ones...

Tom
That's just mean
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Old Aug 21, 2010, 10:27 AM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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I flew my Xplorer yesyerday to practice landings, in cross-wind, down-wind, and upwind conditions, and my paper plate is still unscathed!

I did speck the plane out a few times from a bungy launch with no more than 75-100' of altitude, so that is good.

I made a few little adjustments. One was adding a little more snap-flap with my up elevator. My plane was dropping a wingtip in some tight turns and this seemed to have cured it completely. I probably could have accomplished the same with less differential as well, but this is working.


I have a question for the more experienced TD guys:

What is their strategy for a downwind (10-12mph) landing?

Do they camber the plane on approach to slow the airspeed and thus the ground speed?
I tried a few different things. Some worked better than others, some not really at all.

R,
Target
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Old Aug 21, 2010, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by target View Post
What is their strategy for a downwind (10-12mph) landing?

Do they camber the plane on approach to slow the airspeed and thus the ground speed?
I tried a few different things. Some worked better than others, some not really at all.

R,
Target
T downwind landing is a skill all it's own but were talking Visalia so in the last 10 sec I like to be about 1 foot over the berm so when I smack the spot I do not flip (flip is a zero landing points) the grass is a type of burmuda make sure your skag is not dull, ground could be hard but grass is cut nice & low.

I do not use crow in landing mode, in landing mode I have ail going down a just a bit, rudder is turned off at 1/4 stick landing mode.

Hope your mojo is working that week end call up order It could be ugly when is your time to fly.

sj
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Old Aug 21, 2010, 11:16 AM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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OK, Joe-

That's what I suspected. Thanks for the tips.

I did experience one "flip over" yesterday. No damage, it was at the SULA field, nice grass!

As for the Mojo, well, I'm working on it!

R,
Target
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Old Aug 21, 2010, 10:36 PM
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San Luis Obispo, CA
Joined Dec 2008
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Disclaimer:
I have never seen an Explorer in person, never seen one fly, know that Mike Smith is an OK guy, and think that Tuan is doing an excellent job at promoting science in our sport.

Now Capt. Target,
There are a lot of myths and superstitions about flying downwind. If you think about it as going down river, I think everything will become clear for you because you know how to drive a boat and it really is the same thing with one extra dimension.

The airplane does not know anything about upwind/downwind until the moment of impact. Accordingly, the surface settings would remain the same regardless of the wind state. What you would see is that the approach would shallow out with increasing tailwind and steepen with increasing headwind. Judging the variance due to wind is where experience and practice come into play.

Personally, I try to fly a constant glidepath setting (mixed flaps and ailerons, your choice of crow or camber) on each approach regardless of wind conditions. No mixes change as the aircraft does not know the difference and I don't turn anything on or off or flip any switches.

For practice, a good drill is to fly a lot of approaches in still air with the goal of finding a flap setting that you fly for the whole approach. Once you are comfortable, that becomes your nominal approach and you start adjusting the turn altitudes based on wind so that you have a shallow final approach for downwind, or a steep one for upwind. The aircraft's glideslope through the air will be nearly the same for all cases. If you learn to trust you trims and flap stick position, you'll fly fairly consant airspeeds on approach which will make the manuevering (for example: roll response) similar on all approaches.

For landing, I like to set my planes up such that flap and ailerons mix to create as close to pure drag as possible and doesn't cause the aircraft to balloon or sink when I slam the stick around to compensate for a screwed up approach. This way you can modulate the flap stick as required to control airspeed and control glideslope with elevator and they are relatively independent. This is backwards from how a flight manual will usually tell you to do it but is the same method that an autopilot uses on a precision munition or other precision impact systems. It is pretty simple then. Stick on the right keeps you pointed at the hunsky. Stick on the left controls your airspeed.

Planes don't fly downwind, pilots do.

Thomas
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 10:11 PM
KC6ZZS
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Newport Beach, CA USA
Joined Apr 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaizon View Post
I'm not sure why they came out with the 8 degree, but I appreciate your answer. Larry Jolly seems to like them (as I remember from a previous post - but I could be wrong). We may get more feedback as others use them.
Larry Jolly and I both fly Bob's (Soaring USA) 3.5m and 4m Xplorers when we're at the field flying together, and we both (independently) decided that it needed a bit more effective dihedral in thermal turns. The quickest way to get that was with new joiners with a couple more degrees. With Larry and I being free with our complaints, and Bob being proactive, he got new joiners made. I haven't flown the new joiners yet, but OZ (Thomas Cooke) has. He would be best for comments.

The 4m Xplorer handles well with stock joiners, probably because there is more effective dihedral with the larger center panel moving the poly joint (same 5 deg) further outboard. I didn't look at the 3-views, or measure anything. Just guessing. The fuselage is also longer providing more tail volume, which affects circling dynamics quite a bit. In any case, don't put the 8 deg joiners on a 4m Xplorer. It handles great the way it is, so don't mess with it.
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Clerx View Post
. In any case, don't put the 8 deg joiners on a 4m Xplorer. It handles great the way it is, so don't mess with it.
Ben, So how did you come to recommend 8 deg from stock? that is a big jump.
Just want to understand the thought process and what trade off do U compromise on?

I would guess the X with 8 deg joiner would be more of a hand full in the landing zone


SO, If one was to install 16deg joiners on the X and tape ail can you fly it in RES?

sj
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Last edited by SmokinJoe101; Aug 22, 2010 at 11:34 PM. Reason: typo
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Old Aug 23, 2010, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
SO, If one was to install 16deg joiners on the X and tape ail can you fly it in RES?
With the eight degree joiners , you really don't need the ailerons to fly the plane. I've been flying my new V-tail 3.5 with the 8 degree joiners, and it is very much like flying an RES. Takes a little more effort to enter the turn, but once you start the turn it stays in the groove very well.

I'm trying to get used to this setup in the landing zone and think that these joiners might be the reason that I get a little wallowing on final, just like my Ava used to do sometimes. I'm going to fly it this week with the standard joiners to see what the difference feels like.


Clay
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Old Aug 23, 2010, 08:26 AM
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jaizon's Avatar
USA, NH
Joined Mar 2008
3,109 Posts
Thanks, Ben. I've got a 3.5 and a 3.8. I've been using them on both and kind of like them on both. Looks like a 4.0 is in the works for the fall so I appreciate the info about that.
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