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Old Aug 16, 2010, 10:41 PM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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Are you an Xplorer convert now, Aaron?

R,
Target
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Last edited by target; Aug 16, 2010 at 11:30 PM.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 11:52 PM
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United States, CA, San Luis Obispo
Joined Aug 2006
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I wish I was. My F3B order came in and whacked my model budget for a while A 4.0ST sounds pretty sweet though.
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 01:22 AM
Detail Freak
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Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
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I have to say that I'm really enjoying my 3.5M all carbon X. I think it weighs about 76oz, but it seems like the only real limitation is me. I really don't know how much better a lighter one would be for me, I'd likely try to fly it too slowly. As it is, this one is getting easier and easier to stay up just as long as I want, even if the air isn't great.
And the plane launches great.
Now I just need to learn to hit some landings!

T
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 02:25 AM
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Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by target View Post
I have to say that I'm really enjoying my 3.5M all carbon X. I think it weighs about 76oz, but it seems like the only real limitation is me. I really don't know how much better a lighter one would be for me, I'd likely try to fly it too slowly. As it is, this one is getting easier and easier to stay up just as long as I want, even if the air isn't great.
And the plane launches great.
Some time ago I flew my friends 3.5 meter x-tail. I was really surprised how slow it could be flown and how light feeling it had, despite being quite sturdy full carbon lamination plane with high(ish) wing loading. Compared to Aspire the difference is almost revolutionary. Both planes can win competitions, but Aspire is a mover that likes to cover big areas of sky, while Xplorer seems to happy just floating around.
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 12:26 PM
or F, J, K, or even TD
FLY F3B's Avatar
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I have out-foated many an Explorer with my Aspire. To me they are definitely comparable gliders, but with the overall performance and handling edge going to the Aspire.

Mike
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 12:45 PM
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Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLY F3B View Post
I have out-foated many an Explorer with my Aspire. To me they are definitely comparable gliders, but with the overall performance and handling edge going to the Aspire.

Mike
Me too, I have flown Aspire since the very beginning, now 4th season going, and I have nothing to complain about Aspire's light weather performance

What I meant is that Xplorer can be flown really slow without loosing efficiency. Aspire has a very soft stall and kind handlig, but if you slow it too much tail starts to hang and efficiency is lost. With Aspire one has also pay more attention to trailing edge camber. Xplorer seemed to float on happily with neutral trailing edge.

The 3.5m x-tail was also very nimble to turn. Felt actually like a much smaller plane... Again little different from Aspire.
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 01:22 PM
or F, J, K, or even TD
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Joined Jun 2007
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Nimbleness is simply a set up issue with these gliders. They all handle so well. My Aspire set up allows it to feel like a much smaller glider than it really is. Also, I would have to say that even the Explorer can be flown too slow. Tuomo, you stated that compared to the Aspire, the difference of the Explorer is almost revolutionary! Seriuosly, both gliders are great, and the glider one choses to fly is simply a matter of personal preference since the overall performance numbers are so close. But from a strictly confidence point of view, for me to step up to the flight line with any glider of my choice I would choose the Aspire over all the other options out there.

Mike
Guess I should start my own Aspire thread eh??
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 01:24 PM
RIP MC
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United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLY F3B View Post
I have out-foated many an Explorer with my Aspire. To me they are definitely comparable gliders, but with the overall performance and handling edge going to the Aspire.

Mike
Mike you could do that with any plane and probably flying with your toes .

I have compared the Aspire to all the versions of Xplorers. Aspire gets the edge over 3.5X. Mostly due to wingspan and loading of 9.5oz/ft2. And 3.5X's loading was right at 9oz/ft2.

Both look to have very similar sink rate, but the X could float at a slower speed. The sink rate alone is misleading, but say both sink at x over 1sec. In that 1 sec, the Aspire will have traveled a bit more in distance. This is of course due to the better a/r of 3.7 Aspire.

Compared Aspire to 3.8X and I think the results are so close there is no difference. However with the lighter 3.8X you can get her to really slow and tighten up in a thermal. Once I tried the 3.8 with light tips the edge for me was with the Xplorer.

Compare Aspire with my current 4.0 and I say it's a no brainer. This 4.0ST can circle as tight as the Aspire, maybe even tighter and the L/D is simply amazing. But it's an unfair comparison anyhow due to the span and weight advantage of the 4.0 Xplorer.

Also on a side note, there is something I noticed over the course of the last couple years regarding the weight of the planes, and that is I have come to realize that weight removed from the center is sometimes not as beneficial as one may think because the flying characteristics may not improve, but deteriorate overall.

The "balance" of the plane is much more important. What I mean by balance is the percentage of weight the extremities (tips, nose, tail) take up in the overall weight.

Take 2 exact plane for example, both weighing the same, but the concentration of weight is different. One having slighter heavier tips for instance and one where just the fuse is heavier. The one with the heavier fuse will fly better. Very simple but often not accounted for.

Take the plane with the heavier tips and remove some fuse weight, it may not fly better, because now though the plane should be able to fly slower, the response from same ail throw as before is not the same, it may feel more sluggish becasue even though the overall weight is lighter, the tips weigh more as a percentage now.

I am sure the aero guys have known this for so long and I am just finding out for myself. In my recent builds, I am concentrating more towards reduce weight at the extremities. Just more to think about for us laymen .
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 01:27 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
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United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLY F3B View Post
I have out-foated many an Explorer with my Aspire. To me they are definitely comparable gliders, but with the overall performance and handling edge going to the Aspire.

Mike
Out-foated...? Dude! What do your maps look like?

Sorry Mike... I still owe you...
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 02:20 PM
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Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLY F3B View Post
Nimbleness is simply a set up issue with these gliders. They all handle so well. My Aspire set up allows it to feel like a much smaller glider than it really is. Also, I would have to say that even the Explorer can be flown too slow. Tuomo, you stated that compared to the Aspire, the difference of the Explorer is almost revolutionary! Seriuosly, both gliders are great, and the glider one choses to fly is simply a matter of personal preference since the overall performance numbers are so close.
As I wrote, since 2007 I have flown mostly Aspire in its different versions, maybe 6 different planes, including one with v-tail - against this background and experience any change is revolutionary

Quote:
Originally Posted by FLY F3B View Post
Guess I should start my own Aspire thread eh??
I have both 3.8m Xplorer and a new disser Aspire coming. Have not owned a Aspire light version before... The new Aspire will fly in Bovec eurotour, latest, Xplorer may take little more time. Anyway, I hope I can provide more anatlythical commets to your new Aspire thread when the competition season is over
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 02:55 PM
RIP MC
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United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuomo View Post
I have both 3.8m Xplorer and a new disser Aspire coming. Have not owned a Aspire light version before... The new Aspire will fly in Bovec eurotour, latest, Xplorer may take little more time. Anyway, I hope I can provide more anatlythical commets to your new Aspire thread when the competition season is over
Tuomo, would you have an idea on the weights of the individual parts on that disser Aspire? I have heard they build to sub 70oz, but wondering how much weight savings in the wing. Also is it plenty strong and stiff for full F3J?

Also, I have read you tested out turbulators on the stab, would you have pictures of those? Thanks much for any info!
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 03:02 PM
WINS - Winch In Nose Sailplane
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USA, NH
Joined Mar 2008
3,109 Posts
I have been following the Aspire/Xplorer comparisons on this thread but have not seen any comments on the new 8 degree Xplorer joiners. Has anyone tried them and do you have any comments about how they change performance?

Preston
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 03:08 PM
Registered User
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Jyvaskyla, Finland
Joined Aug 2003
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Originally Posted by fnnwizard View Post
Tuomo, would you have an idea on the weights of the individual parts on that disser Aspire? I have heard they build to sub 70oz, but wondering how much weight savings in the wing.
Lubos promised me under 2kg AUW. No other discussions about weight. I expect it to be seriousl light for a plane of that size...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnnwizard View Post
Also is it plenty strong and stiff for full F3J?
This is what I am little worried about... I will test the model very carefully. And besides, I think if there are active thermals around, I can fly the C68 as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnnwizard View Post
Also, I have read you tested out turbulators on the stab, would you have pictures of those? Thanks much for any info!
This is my first test and it seems to work as well as the other slightly different turbulator setups. 2 layers of thick(ish) tape, both sides. Since last year have also played with CG. Orignally I flew at 114-115mm. Looks like if I move CG aft/forward, I do not need turbulators anymore.

Do your own testing and trust your feelings

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Old Aug 17, 2010, 03:50 PM
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Joined Oct 2003
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On the Aspire, Explorer question, I would like to pass on a few observations. First I think they are both excellent sailplanes and have similar charcteristics. IMHO the Explorer may have the edge for a lesser experienced contest pilot as I think it is more tolerant to elevator tugging. As far as dead air an advanced pilot can fly an Aspire with any of the top designs. While I think the Aspire has the edge in circling and covering ground, it might just be that the Aspire is a great match for my skill-set. As mentioned We are testing some light weight Aspires and with Lubos's permission I will start a thread on this model after testing next week. Light weight is not a siver bullet with either an Aspire or Explorer. I have seen one of Benedikt's 63 ounce 3.55 Explorers and I know that if flown carelessly, it can be broken. I am sure the new sub 70 ounce Aspires can have the same issues. I have found that if the pilot does not instantly recognise sink, he will get killed trying to fly lite. I prefer to be heavy enough for the conditions, so that I am not constantly having to push. But, in the first or last round of the day a light model can offer some advantage, the key is knowing when to jump back to the all round weighted model. An ultra light weight can be overstessed with wind, a deep zoom, or launching through a thermal. Spend some time getting to know your model, and you will be surprised how much better it perfoms. LJ

Hey Jack it looks like I owe you too! I am going to steal Alan's Glider from him... Thanks Man!!!!
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Last edited by Larry Jolly; Aug 17, 2010 at 03:55 PM.
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Old Aug 17, 2010, 04:17 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
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United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
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LJ... Which glider?
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