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Old Nov 02, 2008, 11:34 AM
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Dave,

If I understand you correctly you are saying that you fly in cruise mode with a little reflex in and then go back to neutral for themalling? I looked at my wing and you are right there is a lot of under camber in the wing at neutral setting. I wonder if they set this wing up like the Zentih guys did with a little extra camber for normal thermal mode when the wing is clean. Their premise for doing this is that you will be spending more time thermalling than cruising therefore keep the wing clean in thermal mode and move the surfaces in cruise mode. I will experiment more with this to see what I think about.

See Ya,

Pat
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Old Nov 03, 2008, 08:44 PM
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Monza, Italy
Joined Dec 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmccleave
Dave,

If I understand you correctly you are saying that you fly in cruise mode with a little reflex in and then go back to neutral for themalling? I looked at my wing and you are right there is a lot of under camber in the wing at neutral setting. I wonder if they set this wing up like the Zentih guys did with a little extra camber for normal thermal mode when the wing is clean. Their premise for doing this is that you will be spending more time thermalling than cruising therefore keep the wing clean in thermal mode and move the surfaces in cruise mode. I will experiment more with this to see what I think about.

See Ya,

Pat
Veeery interesting considerations !!!!
To use slight Reflex on camber in normal cruise searcing for thermals....

Mmmmhhhh, can you please better detail your meaning ?

I remind a friend of mine tell me about the Ceres, and in detail relevant its reflexed airfoil with flap in Neutral position.
But at that time, we still was without any clear understanding on so particular concept choice.
Is it something similar to Dave assumption ??
I don't know so mutch about F3B, and I don't wont make up any confusion, but I heard that Ceres is very well performing in any of its relevant tasks.
Is it depending on airfoil reflex ???????
How it's working the reflex base idea ?

Many thanks in advance for any clarification, or mor deep explanation.
Antonio.
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Old Nov 03, 2008, 10:16 PM
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Antonio,

Below is an excerpt from www.f3x.com about the Zenith Secrets. Maybe this will do a better job of explaining what Dave and I was talking about. Please understand, that is just my assumption that this may be what the Xplorer Designer was trying to do.

"Zenith secrets: For years I have been telling customers to set reflex and use it. The Zenith is a thermal machine and what the designer did was to make his wing mold with an HQ airfoil with 3% camber. Why? When you enter a thermal with your current model you probably roll in a little camber for a better climb. The Zenith is MOLDED in with that added camber already. This keeps the airfoil extremely efficient because when you camber in your current model there is a "kink" at the hinge line and the airfoil is compromised for higher lift. The Zenith's "extra camber" is molded in and since this is a thermal model and spends more time circling in a thermal the designer didn't compromise the airfoil by "kinking" it. He chose a high camber airfoil series that is efficient while climbing.

If you hear a Zenith owner complaining that it doesn't have "legs" he is doing it wrong! The HQ 3/8.5 when reflexed 3 deg will keep up with about any F3J model out there. But the pilot has to enable it. How does your current model cruise out with thermal camber active? It doesn't. Neither will the Zenith until you get into reflex. The designer wisely thought that the high cruise portion of the flight was where to live with the kink."

See Ya,

Pat
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 12:48 AM
Balsa breaks better
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Buchanan Mi
Joined Apr 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhauch
then when i hit lift
dave
www.rc-builds.com
That was all you did Saturday with the Xplorer. Granted you could only ride it so high and then it was like a glass ceiling. No matter what you and Bob could get no higher.
They come in RED!!! hmmm.....
Me you ask, I was happy to get the Merlin going and Tiz's Falcon flying not to mention keeping the K2 alive!

Joe
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Old Nov 04, 2008, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thermaler
That was all you did Saturday with the Xplorer. Granted you could only ride it so high and then it was like a glass ceiling. No matter what you and Bob could get no higher.
They come in RED!!! hmmm.....
Me you ask, I was happy to get the Merlin going and Tiz's Falcon flying not to mention keeping the K2 alive!

Joe

You know when I got the chance to fly an xplorer myself I could not get used to the camber setting on the futaba radio and since it was nto my plane (or radio) I did not want to start looking away to find the right switches etc. I decided to just fly it "clean" I was very surprised to find it would signal quite well and climb out quite fast without camber...makes sense now that i read this thread. I can't wait to get mine in the air.
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Old Nov 07, 2008, 05:00 PM
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Testing Tomorrow

My Xplorer is ready for range check and hand tossing tomorrow - and I'll try to get all of the flight modes adjusted so that I can put it up on the winch as well. I don't yet have any ballast, but the forecast for tomorrow is for winds well under 10 mph, so I shouldn't need any. I'm going to start with the throws that Mike Lee recommended, but I've started with the cg at 108 mm. I'm looking forward to getting it flying.

Browne Goodwin
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Old Nov 07, 2008, 09:35 PM
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Joined Nov 2003
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Xplorer #1

Here's Xplorer #1 ready for radio setup. I'm using a Futaba 12Z for the first time so I have some learning to do. So far I really like the features of this radio, now if I can just learn how to use them.

Good luck to all the other Xplorer owners out there.

Jim
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Old Nov 07, 2008, 09:53 PM
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Browne,

If yours is anything like mine was it will fly right off the board. You will be impressed I am sure. Good luck with your first flights and make sure you give us a report tomorrow night. Instead of flying tomorrow, I get to spend 6 hours on a bus and 8 more watching a Cheerleading Competition. Oh Joy.

See Ya,

Pat
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Old Nov 08, 2008, 06:59 AM
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Sorry no NAN topic but adding to what is said before: my Zenith X-tail 3.5m (no XXL) thermal flying secrets:
- Cg at 96mm (yes folks, that forward!), decalage 2 degrees
- Get rid of the winglets, use the flat ones
- fly center panel without reflex
- fly only tip panels with reflex (2mm or flat-line underside)
- never use more chamber (exept on launch maybe a bit)
- use this for both cruise & thermalling, for speed = reflex the center panel too

This might look odd setup but for this bird only (and my taste) it actually really works.
I'm not surprised that the "newer" XXL uses same unchanged center panel and new tips with lesser chamber, my setup simulates this improvement.
Cheers, Jurgen.
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Last edited by Jurgen; Nov 08, 2008 at 11:49 AM.
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Old Nov 09, 2008, 10:12 AM
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I wonder if any of our German colleagues in the F3J scene that are experienced with the model would like to chip in with their findings and trim settings regarding the Xplorer. Calling Team Germany F3J !!!?
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Old Nov 09, 2008, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-Air
Here's Xplorer #1 ready for radio setup. I'm using a Futaba 12Z for the first time so I have some learning to do. So far I really like the features of this radio, now if I can just learn how to use them.

Good luck to all the other Xplorer owners out there.

Jim
Jim,

Nice CLEAN shop like the rolling bench

sj
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Old Nov 09, 2008, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe101
Jim,

Nice CLEAN shop like the rolling bench

sj

Thanks!

It didn't look like that 2 weeks ago.

I just finished building the cabinets and wall units and then I put the bench on casters. I have enough room to park 2 SUVs when not using the garage for modeling.

Jim
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Old Nov 09, 2008, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-Air
Thanks!

It didn't look like that 2 weeks ago.

I just finished building the cabinets and wall units and then I put the bench on casters. I have enough room to park 2 SUVs when not using the garage for modeling.

Jim

I am in the process of shop improvements as well. I have a 15 foot cieling in the shop and nothing using that space so i am considering some cool plane racks etc.

Your shop looks good Jim. I vote everyone in the NWSS heads over to yoru place for a build clinic!
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Old Nov 09, 2008, 01:18 PM
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I Have a limited supply of cnc turned ballast for the Explorer.Please see photo
weights are 13mm Aliminium Bar 170grm----6oz
Part Ali /Steel 280grm----10oz
Steel 450grm-----160z
Cost UK Pounds 20.00 per set (12 pieces)plus postage
Paypal accepted.









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Old Nov 09, 2008, 01:44 PM
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Joined Nov 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webbsolution
I am in the process of shop improvements as well. I have a 15 foot cieling in the shop and nothing using that space so i am considering some cool plane racks etc.

Your shop looks good Jim. I vote everyone in the NWSS heads over to yoru place for a build clinic!

Dave,

I have a 10ft ceiling, here's what I did. (see photo) I used a HiLoft storage unit and then added 1X1 with half" dowels and pipe insulation.

BRO,

These garage photos and posts are a bit off topic; feel free to delete if you like.

Jim
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