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Old Jun 01, 2009, 11:08 AM
RIP MC
fnnwizard's Avatar
United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Hi Paul,
I only managed 3rd in my class this time. I was disappointed in my landing performance. Twice I was on the tape line, really thinking I was at the 100 spot only to find out it was 80... about a 3 ft difference . Need to work on the depth perception.

The X had no problem making time. Other than the very first flight to probe the flying field, the lift was literally in the same area all day for me. Can't remember exactly, but I was off just 1 second on 1 or 2 flight.


I too got a closer look at the JR 378. Pretty amazing little guy at first glance. If motor/gears/specs hold up, it will be the biggest improvement to wing control since... RDS .
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Old Jun 01, 2009, 05:11 PM
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Norway
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OK here is a long one.
Beware both mine are the 3800mm version and I wanted a spar that could take all F3J and full carbon and preferably 2kg. The rest was up to them but I got to make my own color scheme.

Flew the Explorer all weekend in hot conditions (well high pressure and 25-27C is hot for Norway). Today (Monday was holiday in Norway) we flew a F3J National Cup with 24 pilots and 5 teams. I alternated beetween the two (Perfect ET/Xplorer 3800) and so did my son a little during the weekend.
I won and he was a few points from the finals in 7th position. Daddy is very proud!! Fredrik (12yrs) liked both model much better than the Supra that he normally flies.. guess daddy never made a ballast tube for his Supra...
What I have found so far is:
No matter how much ballast i throw at the Xplorer I still cant get the legs I want. Maybe I still need to tweak it a bit more. It is only my first week with the model.
But it does hang very well and maybe a notch better than the Perfect. Atleast easier to just hang there and cruise around.
Launches well though I need to fine tune that rotation to get a bit more on initial. If I throw on very high tension and straight up it is fine.

I got two different set of joiners with the models. Did not like the large dihedral (same as perfect philip joiners in degrees) but the smaller ones suited my taste (same as original perfect)

My Xplorer models are built very light and fairly strong it seems. Very little epoxy in skin so plenty pinholes but that does not matter for me. Fit and finish is nearly Samba but not quite (though mine is not a production model I think and I have not looked too much on others). Only time and some heavy launches will tell if the model can take all conditions. But so far it has held up and got some fairly good launches.

Another interresting thing was that when tweaking the differential (I like it to almost roll straight with no ail-rud coupling) I found that I am almost at no differential at all. The Perfect needs differential so... Aileron response on Explorer is less than Perfect and it does have an issue on negative balloning in high speed braking that I need to figure out. Again first week.

Regards (Hilsen) Jojo
www.jojoen.no/diary
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Old Jun 01, 2009, 06:55 PM
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United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Nice JOJO! Congrats on the win! Not many people have luxury of Perfect ET and X3800 to do head to head comparison testing like you.

I know the X3800s over here are very light and wing loading is in the 8.xx ounce/ft2 unballasted. I am curious to know what the wing loading came out to be with the ballast you used on your X and compared to the Perfect ET. In other words what is the AUW of your X and how much ballast did you used?

Could you also shed on light on the "aileron response" Did you mean roll response? As in a little slower response than perfect, and finally what is negative balloning? Sorry I really don't know . Anyway, I know that's sharing of some valuable secrets, but I know you are a sharing guy. Thanks again for any feedback!
Tuan
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Old Jun 01, 2009, 07:13 PM
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United States, CA, Castro Valley
Joined Apr 2007
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sorry for the mis-information, Tuan. even at 28yrs my memory is already misleading me...and i was there at the contest too! wow, i am already getting old the landings were quite tough with the cross wind and sometimes, the landing was even downwind but the x's seem to hold their own. in my eyes, you are a winner

maybe, i was wrong about your standing but i "think" i counted some 5 xplorers at the SC2 contest and we had 56 entrants. thats a pretty high proportion. both Tuan and Clay flew their X's as did Mike Lee. there was another guy that flew an X and our only entrant in the Junior class also flew an X. there were a handful of perfects, two tragis, and two aspires and the X's seemed to handle just fine. what a plane. my xplorer is still on the work bench but momentum is building. i have a lot of free time now so, i will be working hard.

Jojo, great report. and please stop letting your son fly if he is already placing well at 12yrs, we have no chance! great flying, both you and your son!

can you tell us more about the joiners you used? you got two sets of joiners with your X3.8? what was the dihedral angle for them? are the kolb joiners for the perfect compatible with the X? thanks in advance.
cheers
paul
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Old Jun 01, 2009, 07:14 PM
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Norway
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnnwizard
Nice JOJO! Congrats on the win! Not many people have luxury of Perfect ET and X3800 to do head to head comparison testing like you.

I know the X3800s over here are very light and wing loading is in the 8.xx ounce/ft2 unballasted. I am curious to know what the wing loading came out to be with the ballast you used on your X and compared to the Perfect ET. In other words what is the AUW of your X and how much ballast did you used?

Could you also shed on light on the "aileron response" Did you mean roll response? As in a little slower response than perfect, and finally what is negative balloning? Sorry I really don't know . Anyway, I know that's sharing of some valuable secrets, but I know you are a sharing guy. Thanks again for any feedback!
Tuan
Thanks

My Xplorer 3800 came out at 1960g (69oz) 24g/dm. Think that is 7,8ounce/ft2
I have used both 200 (7oz), 400 and 600g ballast during the weekend.
My Perfect ET used in the weekend is 2200g (77oz). Some flights with 300g ballast. I do have a Perfect SL version also that will be 2000g (70oz) with ET tips but I rarely use it.
You will need to read my diary for detailed weights and first flights taht was on 29.may 2009 www.jojoen.no/diary

Yes roll response slower than perfect ET. Yes I use flap as aileron also in all flight modes.
What I mean about negative ballooning is the effect of pulling butterfly in different speeds and different part of the stick. It keeps the angle in slow and medium speeds but rushing to the landing mark it goes nose down heavily.
I used Airtronics in the wing.

Regards Jojo
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Old Jun 01, 2009, 07:19 PM
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Norway
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCPC
....snipp...

Jojo, great report. and please stop letting your son fly if he is already placing well at 12yrs, we have no chance! great flying, both you and your son!

can you tell us more about the joiners you used? you got two sets of joiners with your X3.8? what was the dihedral angle for them? are the kolb joiners for the perfect compatible with the X? thanks in advance.
cheers
paul
Thanks but no will not stop him
Though I think that stops with motorcycles and girls in a few years....

As mentioned the joiners was same angle as Perfect standard and Perfect philip joiners thyat has one degree more. I checked with one of the guys here and the large dihedral was the same as he got with his 3.5 Xplorer.
I did testfit a few Samba joiners and they seemed to fit fairly well BUT they are not the same length. Not sure what that will mean but it can maybe mean some more stress on the joiner box.
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Old Jun 01, 2009, 08:11 PM
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fnnwizard's Avatar
United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojoen
Thanks

My Xplorer 3800 came out at 1960g (69oz) 24g/dm. Think that is 7,8ounce/ft2
I have used both 200 (7oz), 400 and 600g ballast during the weekend.
My Perfect ET used in the weekend is 2200g (77oz). Some flights with 300g ballast. I do have a Perfect SL version also that will be 2000g (70oz) with ET tips but I rarely use it.
You will need to read my diary for detailed weights and first flights taht was on 29.may 2009 www.jojoen.no/diary

Yes roll response slower than perfect ET. Yes I use flap as aileron also in all flight modes.
What I mean about negative ballooning is the effect of pulling butterfly in different speeds and different part of the stick. It keeps the angle in slow and medium speeds but rushing to the landing mark it goes nose down heavily.
I used Airtronics in the wing.

Regards Jojo
One last question. What was the range of wind speeds? This will help me and hopefully most to get up to speed on using ballast. I have not had anytime to test ballast useage yet.

Thanks again!
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Old Jun 01, 2009, 09:52 PM
Win=span\massXpractice+lu ck
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Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojoen
Thanks

My Xplorer 3800 came out at 1960g (69oz) 24g/dm. Think that is 7,8ounce/ft2
I have used both 200 (7oz), 400 and 600g ballast during the weekend.
My Perfect ET used in the weekend is 2200g (77oz). Some flights with 300g ballast. I do have a Perfect SL version also that will be 2000g (70oz) with ET tips but I rarely use it.
You will need to read my diary for detailed weights and first flights taht was on 29.may 2009 www.jojoen.no/diary

Yes roll response slower than perfect ET. Yes I use flap as aileron also in all flight modes.
What I mean about negative ballooning is the effect of pulling butterfly in different speeds and different part of the stick. It keeps the angle in slow and medium speeds but rushing to the landing mark it goes nose down heavily.
I used Airtronics in the wing.

Regards Jojo
JoJo I had the same issue with my perfect and I have a slight issue with this on my X as well. Keep me posted if you find a solution. The speed range that causes this effect is pretty fast in my opinion though. I don't see myself screaming in at this rate of speed and expecting to pull full flaps without some attention to the elevator. Still ...a solution would be interesting. For now if I am coming in fast and low I pulse the flaps a few times and slow down and then leave them on...and probably land short man those flaps are large!
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Old Jun 01, 2009, 10:27 PM
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USA, KS, Wichita
Joined Sep 2002
1,117 Posts
Guys,

If you are experiencing a problem with the plane nosing over too much on high speed flap deployment it is probably because your elevator is coming into play ahead of your flaps because the flaps are blowing up against the flap servos. In other words your flap servos are not up to the task at speed. At least it is something to look at. Jojo if you want a plane with great float and even greater legs check out the Orca. It is like a Perfect or Xplorer on Steroids and it launches faster than either one.

See Ya,

Pat McCleave
Wichita KS

PS, I love my X, but I think my Orca may have jumped it to primary status in my quiver.
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Old Jun 01, 2009, 10:38 PM
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Joined Nov 2002
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OK, Pat, send me the X... it's even the right colors...

Jack
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Old Jun 01, 2009, 11:06 PM
Win=span\massXpractice+lu ck
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Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmccleave
Guys,

If you are experiencing a problem with the plane nosing over too much on high speed flap deployment it is probably because your elevator is coming into play ahead of your flaps because the flaps are blowing up against the flap servos. In other words your flap servos are not up to the task at speed. At least it is something to look at. Jojo if you want a plane with great float and even greater legs check out the Orca. It is like a Perfect or Xplorer on Steroids and it launches faster than either one.

See Ya,

Pat McCleave
Wichita KS

PS, I love my X, but I think my Orca may have jumped it to primary status in my quiver.
if you are right then a tiny elevator delay will resolve that issue but that would likely introduce positive ballooning when you pulse at medium to slow speeds...


then again a 6 volt abttery might be the better trick although I have had the same issues with a 6 volt setup as well....
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Old Jun 02, 2009, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCPC
maybe, i was wrong about your standing but i "think" i counted some 5 xplorers at the SC2 contest and we had 56 entrants. thats a pretty high proportion. both Tuan and Clay flew their X's as did Mike Lee. there was another guy that flew an X and our only entrant in the Junior class also flew an X. there were a handful of perfects, two tragis, and two aspires and the X's seemed to handle just fine. what a plane. my xplorer is still on the work bench but momentum is building. i have a lot of free time now so, i will be working hard.
Paul
The SULA SC2 was fun, food was good, and grass was green great contest. Great going Lex place 2nd with a TOPAZ

1. Vera - Perfect
2. Mierop- Topaz
3. Copp - Tragi 801
4. Jolly - Aspire
5. Watson - Aspire
6. Clerx - Aspire
7. Rodriguez - Tragi 801
8. Lee - 2 - meter
9. Borer - ?
10. Spielman - ?

OH, Sorry guys, to stay on topic there were several Explorers flying at Sc2

sj
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Old Jun 02, 2009, 12:49 AM
Bro
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Xplorer

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Old Jun 02, 2009, 01:35 AM
RIP MC
fnnwizard's Avatar
United States, CA, Midway City
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokinJoe101
The SULA SC2 was fun, food was good, and grass was green great contest. Great going Lex place 2nd with a AVA

1. Vera - Perfect
2. Mierop- AVA
3. Copp - Tragi 801
4. Jolly - Aspire
5. Watson - Aspire
6. Clerx - Aspire
7. Rodriguez - Tragi 801
8. Lee - 2 - meter
9. Borer - ?
10. Spielman - ?

OH, Sorry guys, to stay on topic there were several Explorers flying at Sc2

sj
If I recall, the top man, Edgar Vega finished about 40 points in front of the group of X's. He usually flies a Sharon, but may have picked up a Perfect now. Lex got 2nd with a seasoned Topaz! .

The thing is, the group of X's probably avg 3-4 years of soaring experiences. Tops guys avg 94 landing points, group of X's, 80's. This contest was about beign able to land well in cross wind. The lift was everywhere all day so just about any plane will stay up for the time. Oh, btw Joe, congrats on the only 100pt landing at the contest!

I'll be honest and say I'm most proud of the couple guys I flew with. We found our own air and most times were by ourselves in thermals no one else for some reason shared. I like it that way better, less chance for midairs.

I've always maintained that the X is so easy to do well, it gives us regular guys a shot at taking wood. For me, it gives me the ability to gamble to find lift.

Jojo, I got a little time to think about the "legs" aspect of the X. I don't know the wing loading of the Pike ET. Taking your weight specs here, I estimate your X3800 ~ 8oz/ft2. With 600g ballast you're about 10.3 oz/ft2. Standard Pike with no ballast is around 9.5oz/ft2.

Maybe this is reason why it doesn't seem to have as good legs. I don't know. You have way more experience and a are much look up to expert. I learned a lot reading your blog. Just throwing out another idea that seems to be overlooked a bit too when comparing pentration/coverage. Looking forward to more flight reports from ya!
T
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Old Jun 02, 2009, 02:14 AM
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United States, CA, Castro Valley
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thanks, Joe. i was way off on the results. i guess Lee won with his 2m, not the X. i am not going to give contest results anymore. i never listen. sorry guys, thats 0 and 2 for me.

now back to the work table for me. the X is calling.
cheers
paul
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