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Old May 31, 2009, 10:10 AM
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jojoen's Avatar
Norway
Joined Dec 2003
1,444 Posts
Well guys...
I sell Airtronics thru Samba. Have sold over 300? of them and use them in many of my planes.
There have been issues and especially the first ones. There were also huge differences in torque. Some were super strong and some were not so good. The worst was the centering in different temperatures. Now a days I get mostly good ones and test them before I send them out if I can. It is not fun to have glued them in and then discover it can not hold center.
At the time right now it is the best servo out there since Volz stopped pushing theirs. I use them on all functions and even Perfect elevator it performs for 300m+ launches. On my new Explorer 3800 I luckily got my hands on some Volz digi XP's so for elevator I have the best there is in that size. A stupid MPX tynyS on rudder and Airtronics in the wing all over.

BUT I had the opportunity to dismantle one of Larry's new ones and test them a bit on 4 and 5 cells. I must say I am impressed. Gears look solid and will hold up. Pins sit solid in casing. Casing and electronic is state of the art. Taking it apart was nice. Much higher standard than we have seen up untill now. If the prices they have announced hold up I might switch immediately on the next plane.
No I have not been sponsored by JR/Horizon since 2004 Nats so I say this because I mean it.
But I am sure Airtonics will answer with something.

BTW the Graupner name is DS-3288BB and is price fairly low in Norway
30x11x29mm -21,5 gr -0,11 sec/40degrees at 4,8V
power/holding power 6,4/13,5kg at 4,8V. 7,6/15,9kg at 6V

One Explorer 3800 flown for 3 days now and competition tomorrow. Have not had time for update here but some in my diary. Will assemble number 2 when I have time.
Great plane. Too light to fly unballasted in Norwegian air...

Regards Jojo
www.jojoen.no/diary
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Old May 31, 2009, 11:01 AM
Daryl Perkins's Avatar
United States, VA, Falls Church
Joined Mar 2007
1,315 Posts
Brand wars - team guys - obvious agendas - and spin doctors

Hey Larr, I don't want to bump heads either, but I'm not willing to let you mislead the soaring public in a public forum. And I am the one being fair here.

Years ago, when you were an Airtronics team guy, you were privy to some of the very first prototype 761 servos. You and I both know it's not the same servo anymore. I recall that prior to launch, they upgraded the motors from the ones you reference... and they've continued to improve the servo over the years.

And it's true, Ron did say that companies quite often fudge their torque numbers. He also said Airtronics wasn't one of them. He knew it was too easy for people to go out into their garage and test them... and with the best servo on the market - why lie?

As team guys, we're both very fortunate to have access to all the new trick stuff. We're also privy to proprietary behind the scenes information regarding companies, policies, test data, etc... That info should stay just there...behind the scenes.

Let's not mislead or confuse the public by spinning data obtained by testing prototypes... that's really not fair.

Sales tactics should never include throwing your competitor under the bus in an attempt to discredit them or their product. Unfortunately, its a tactic that works.... It's just not ethical.

Again, I wish you and JR the best of luck with the new servo. It looks like a nice product. Nice to see you guys catching up...

I'm going to continue to use the Airtronics 761's, until we come up with something better. I have to admit, I was a bit leary about driving those huge control surfaces on the Icon 2 with a little servo like that.. but the amount of torque and power continue to amaze me.

Sorry to get off topic guys. To stay on topic, I saw an Explorer at the F3J in the Rockies last weekend. It looked nice.

dp
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Old May 31, 2009, 01:17 PM
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Joined Jul 2004
35 Posts
Xplorer V-Tail Maiden

The winds in central Texas finally moderated enough that I was able to hand launch and then winch launch my V-Tail Xplorer today. All flights went very well. The glider weighs in at 67.5 ounces, but after the first winch launch, I added the aluminum ballast bar (about 7 ounces) and flew with it the rest of the morning. Winds were 5-10 mph with gusts to 15, and the Xplorer did everything I wanted, including catching a small hlg thermal about 30 feet off the ground and rising up as high as I wanted to go. I'll continue working with it during June, but I don't anticipate much tweaking - more practice with landings, camber/reflex settings, etc.
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Old May 31, 2009, 06:00 PM
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so. cal.
Joined Jan 2006
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My obvious agenda is getting the best product, who cares if it retails $10 more each if it has superior performance, bench tested the 378 is superior in a bunch of areas, real world testing will give real results, and mounting it it has multiple advantages, but as far calling someone a spin doctor, come'on, give me a break! I am not sure who is receiving stuff for free or getting paid to use it, but if I WAS, I sure wouldn't be saying some of the things like spin doctor, obvious agenda and so forth. The obvious thing here is a new superior wing servo, who the heck cares who makes it!
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Old May 31, 2009, 06:22 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
schrederman's Avatar
United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
7,676 Posts
Quote>Sales tactics should never include throwing your competitor under the bus<Quote

Well said DP... this tactic should be reserved for competitions......

On topic... Xplorer won Amarillo UNL class today... Yours truly at the sticks...

Jack
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Old May 31, 2009, 06:25 PM
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USA, NJ, Wantage
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schrederman
Yours truly at the sticks...
Congrats Jack!
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Old May 31, 2009, 06:35 PM
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Joined Oct 2003
1,712 Posts
Daryl,
Man it must be my failing memory, I just don't remember it going down the way you do, but who cares. Now that We have caught up, the guys choosing to fly JR have their own wing servo. And back to topic, I forgot to tell you I met Nicholay actually both of them in Bulgaria and they wished to send you a message. They acknowleged your Emails to NAN models and they wanted to know how you were doing. I told them you were involved with Don Peters working on the Icon2. That the model had been greatly improved over the prototype with your guidance, and that it was a really competitive F3J model. They said that they would be happy to follow up and supply you with Explorers, just let them know the color and the layup you require. I hope this is good news, I am sorry I forgot. Larry
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Old May 31, 2009, 06:46 PM
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I got to see the 378 today at the SC2 contest. Larry Jolly was showing one off. It is considerably beefier than the JR 168, and Larry says it's testing showing nearly twice the real world power of the 761. I love the 761s in my Xplorer, but it could be we'll have even more great servo options in the near future. And who backs their products better than JR?

CH
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Old May 31, 2009, 07:08 PM
Bro
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Southern California
Joined Feb 2003
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Xplorer

Jack,

Great job!

Best,
Bob
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Old May 31, 2009, 07:29 PM
jrerickson
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Valencia, CA
Joined Jan 2005
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Happy with the Futaba 3150's...oops, wrong conversation. Just had to throw my team into the ring

JE
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Old May 31, 2009, 07:41 PM
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so. cal.
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Oh my gosh, now it's a 3 servo war!
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Old May 31, 2009, 07:44 PM
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Joined Oct 2003
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John,
We missed you today. The new Sula Field of Dreams is a great soaring venue and the lift was sporting but cooperative. Huge for me was Rick Pearson yes that one, made his SC2 debut 30 years after he hung up RC for Tennis. Rick is now retired and was having no trouble guiding his Shadow around the Southern California Sky. I 've got a feeling that Rick will be like the Weav he will soon be chasing the leaders in local events. By the way the JR guys had a good time hangin with your Futaba brothers. We learned a bunch of new stuff......something about Stud 100!! No wonder you guys have the edge at keeping things up longer..Well except Darwin of course. LJ
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Old May 31, 2009, 08:00 PM
jrerickson
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Valencia, CA
Joined Jan 2005
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Larry,

SCSA flew up in Bakersfield today and the CVRC crew came down, so we ended up with a nice 18 person contest. Got a good look at the new 3.7m Zenith, the Pike with extended tips as well as the Xplorer. All took a back seat to my slightly aging Onyx JW.

Good planes all over the place, but the one that looked the nicest was the Xplorer, to get us back to our originally scheduled program...

JE
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Old May 31, 2009, 08:17 PM
Throw it like you hate it
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United States, CA, Castro Valley
Joined Apr 2007
3,035 Posts
I think there were other wins with the X today as well in the SC-squared contest. I think Tuan won his class with the X and Mike Lee placed as well in his class with the "original" X. Are you guys going to share or are you just being humble? This is the right thread to brag
Cheers
Paul

PS: good flying, John, but wrong thread
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Old May 31, 2009, 08:18 PM
WINS - Winch In Nose Sailplane
jaizon's Avatar
USA, NH
Joined Mar 2008
2,992 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Jolly
Daryl,
I am glad you are having good luck with your 761's, and as an Airtronics team guy, I would expect you to run their goodies. But you know what I speak about power from 761's is the truth. We both took part in the testing, with me flying them first. Skip and I even hooked up weights to check the torque. I believe the term Ron used was everbody over estimates their servos output. I still have my notes and the original 761's in the Starlight. I checked, 39 in ounces on a 4cell pack. Larry
An interesting point. Prompts me to do my own testing rather than take any manufacturer's word for it. In any the 378's do seem like a great new choice for sailplaners. As for me, I love the 3421s and have never experienced the "slop" mentioned. And they center flawlessly. Regardless, I'm sure that many out there will try these new servos (due out in July, I believe) and then the first hand man in the street reports will start coming in.
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