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Old Jul 13, 2008, 10:56 AM
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Newbury Park, California
Joined Apr 2002
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Bob Cook:

I fly the same Omega V-tailed poly you have. Or is it usta have? The tail is too small. It is difficult to turn quickly without yawing, pitching and just generally 'waddling' around before re-establishing stable flight. It must be steered with a gentle touch.

If you get the opportunity to fly a Chrysalis or the Cox Dust Devil, you'll experience the difference.

This thread is fun and I am glad you started it. But, as Don said, -- Vtails do work well when done properly.

Joe
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 10:57 AM
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United States, OH, Bradford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Stackhouse
I definitely don't qualify as a member of this group, but I figured I should stop by from time to time just to keep the discussion honest...
Something just occurred to me - maybe I could be the Chief of the Subversive Element of the No V-tail division of BPS ?

Don
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 11:01 AM
The Lone Blue Plaid Flyer
Bob Cook's Avatar
Seattle
Joined Jan 2003
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We can always count on Don for accrrate engineering information. Thanks Don. A lot of things in life are just baised on perception, not sciencetific facts.
I'll be putting the Blue plaid logo on the Riser for sure. Thanks for designing it Wayne.

Bob in Seattle
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 11:03 AM
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Good idea Don; then we could still be part of the group and have some fun too. -- Can't let these guys hog all the good times.

I make myself available for the position of minority whip!

Joe
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 11:11 AM
The Lone Blue Plaid Flyer
Bob Cook's Avatar
Seattle
Joined Jan 2003
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OH NO, we have a mole in the group !!! Batten down the hatches guys. Damn the V tails, full speed ahead !!!

Bob in Seattle
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 11:13 AM
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United States, KY, Covington
Joined Feb 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Windependence
Actually the plaid pattern on the logo was from a tartan website that will make kilts for you based on your family sir name.

Windependence - Sec/Tres No v-tails Div BPS
If you guys are going to wear blue plaid kilts, I'm definetly not joining. Just the thought of all those ugly, hairy legs, UGH. And, I've heard they don't wear anything under them .

Dave
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 12:42 PM
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United States, OH, Bradford
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As my mother, and my great-aunt explained to me many years ago, the traditional Scottish garb was quite practical. The old Scottish countryside was composed of rolling hills covered with waist-high grasses, which were frequently wet with dew or from a passing rain shower. When hiking through this, pants would soak up the water and hold it against your legs for an extended period, resulting in discomfort, chafing, skin infections, etc.. Kilts would not have that problem, and bare legs would dry much more quickly than fabric. At night the kilts were long enough to double as both sleeping pads and blankets.

Stories were that the Scottish soldiers who came over with the redcoats during the American revolution were especially tough fighters, good at fending for themselves and surviving in the wilderness with little or no outside support. They were equipped with an unusual three-cornered sword that was used with a thrusting and swirling motion, causing terrible three-armed star-shaped wounds that were almost invariably fatal. They were the elite troops of their day, and were especially feared by the colonials.
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Cook
... Damn the V tails, full speed ahead !!!
Well, if it's speed you're interested in, V-tails do increase Reynolds numbers and reduce interference drag, both of which are good for speed.
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 12:51 PM
Making wood fly since 2007
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USA, MN, Rochester
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Cook
OH NO, we have a mole in the group !!! Batten down the hatches guys. Damn the V tails, full speed ahead !!!

Bob in Seattle
Circle the traditional cross tails!! President Bob, too your secure bunker, we may have an insurgence. Our traditional way of flying is once again threatened. The remaining members, me and Foam crusher, will defend you against these moles!! We are standing by with radios at the ready.

Wayne
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 01:45 PM
The Lone Blue Plaid Flyer
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Seattle
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Thanks Wayne,

I'll grap Foxy and go to the bunker. Is this thread just TO funny or what??

Bob in Seattle
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 01:55 PM
Blueplaidcanard flyer
sdy. ny
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I still need an answer on my Y tail.scottie
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 02:37 PM
The Lone Blue Plaid Flyer
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Seattle
Joined Jan 2003
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Well Scottie,

If you put the conventional tail on the Chrys, and take the No V tail Oath, your in !!

Bob in Seattle
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 04:55 PM
I eat only vegetarian beef
Skycruiser's Avatar
Fairlie, New Zealand
Joined Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Stackhouse
I definitely don't qualify as a member of this group, but I figured I should stop by from time to time just to keep the discussion honest.



Sounds like you tried to use some that were designed by the "projected area" method, which results in a seriously undersized V-tail, with poor spin recovery characteristics, among other things. When designed properly, with the same TOTAL area as the equivalent T-tail or conventional tail, their spin recovery characteristics are, if anything, better than the other types. In the rotation of a spin, there can be partial blanking of the "lee" half of the tail by the "windward" half, and that results in a natural nose-down characteristic that breaks the stall and stops the spin. I've demonstrated this consistently with spin tests of indoor free-flight models (see attached photo for a mobile I made from the first thirteen, the first of which dates back to 1967).
That's exactly what I meant. Apologies if I wasn't clear. Sometimes I want my models to spin. Often spinning ability in a soarer is a good thing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Stackhouse
Again not really so. I's no big deal to make a bolt-on V-shaped platform for a V-tail (see the Chrysalis build thread for some sketches). Also, there is less need for a bolt-on V-tail, because a V-tail will nestle nicely into a corner, and you can also stack them together, nesting with each other, something you can't do with an assembled conventional or T-tail. In actual practice I've found storage and transport of a bunch of V-tail models to be significantly easier than the other types. And yes, I do have quite a bit of actual experience with that.
Sure, and I've actually made a removable V tail on one of my models. But in my situation I'm not storing or transporting a bunch of v-tails. I just like being able to undo two screws and a clevis and store everything flat. Just personal preference.
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 05:16 PM
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United States, OH, Bradford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skycruiser
That's exactly what I meant. Apologies if I wasn't clear. Sometimes I want my models to spin. Often spinning ability in a soarer is a good thing
Just a matter of having large enough ruddervators with enough throw on them.

Quote:
Sure, and I've actually made a removable V tail on one of my models. But in my situation I'm not storing or transporting a bunch of v-tails. I just like being able to undo two screws and a clevis and store everything flat. Just personal preference.
OK. I recently worked on a UAV design where the plug-in V-tail panels could be removed just by popping off the ball joints on the end of the pushrods, then lifting up the end of a latch and slipping the tails off. Putting them back on was just a matter of pushing them back on till the latches clicked, and popping the pushrods back on the ball links. No tools required, and no loose parts when disassembled.
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Old Jul 13, 2008, 05:22 PM
sKrude up, Rejected!
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United States, CA, Santa Barbara
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...
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