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Old Jun 28, 2008, 10:43 AM
Government is a fearful master
electroman7's Avatar
United States, TX, Farwell
Joined Feb 2001
157 Posts
Question
Open carry or conceal carry?

Texas is debating an ammendment to their CCW law which would allow citizens to openly carry their weapon. What is your take on open carry? My opinion is that it makes it easier to carry a weapon in the 1st place. Most handguns are hard to conceal, especially large guns and in warm weather. And concealment holsters are usually uncomfortable for me. The general result of concealed carry only for me and for others I've talked to is that we forego packing a pistola at times because it is so darned uncomfortable and inconvienient. I've worn weapons in unconcealed holsters while hunting and while working on a ranch pretty far from any population. They are more comfortable. I kind of agree with the arguements against open carry, such as they make fellow citizens uncomfortable and will single you out for special attention by crimiinals looking to victimize someone and by police watching for people who might start trouble. But then again if I think about it, any uneasiness I feel about seeing a cop or military person wearing a holster quickly passes. I've discussed this with some police friends I have and a few have actually told me that they like the idea because they then don't have to speculate as to whether you are armed if they approach you, and being armed and concealled puts them at sort of a disadvantage.

Any thoughts?
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 11:11 AM
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Southern MA. USA
Joined Jan 2003
623 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by electroman7
Texas is debating an ammendment to their CCW law which would allow citizens to openly carry their weapon. What is your take on open carry? My opinion is that it makes it easier to carry a weapon in the 1st place. Most handguns are hard to conceal, especially large guns and in warm weather. And concealment holsters are usually uncomfortable for me. The general result of concealed carry only for me and for others I've talked to is that we forego packing a pistola at times because it is so darned uncomfortable and inconvienient. I've worn weapons in unconcealed holsters while hunting and while working on a ranch pretty far from any population. They are more comfortable. I kind of agree with the arguements against open carry, such as they make fellow citizens uncomfortable and will single you out for special attention by crimiinals looking to victimize someone and by police watching for people who might start trouble. But then again if I think about it, any uneasiness I feel about seeing a cop or military person wearing a holster quickly passes. I've discussed this with some police friends I have and a few have actually told me that they like the idea because they then don't have to speculate as to whether you are armed if they approach you, and being armed and concealled puts them at sort of a disadvantage.

Any thoughts?

Yes, for most of the reasons you've already cited, it depends where one is when he/she is carrying, If I walk into any McDonalds, or dunkin' dognuts in Boston packing a gun that isn't accompanied by a badge, someone is going to freak, and there will be a problem in short order, but I'll bet that at any time, any where in the area there are quite a few people carrying concealed and with little distress to anyone else.

But go up country a bit into Vermont where anyone can carry legally without a permit provided the gun is well exposed, a trip to any resturant or public place, anywhere around the main streets and downtown and you will see as many people with a gun on their belt as not.
People are so used to it, nobody notices, except maybe to see what the other guy's carrying.
In NH, they need to be concealed ( I'm almost sure) everyone wears a waist bag or fanny pack, and just about all of them conceal a gun.

My vote would be for concealed, if I'm carrying and I'm taking the wife and grandkids out to lunch, and some nit-wit bent on getting his fifteen minutes of fame decides to shoot up the place, I don't want to be the first target he fires at because he see's me as a threat to his plans.
And I certainly don't want to ruin somebody elses lunch by having them have to sit next to what they would call a gun nut.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 11:18 AM
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ni'ihau
Joined Nov 2003
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If every adult was carrying a loaded gun with them many things would happen. There would be a enormous number of casualties at the beginning. The learning process would be at first very messy and cruel. Idiots and the totally innocent would be equally affected. Eventually idiots, the sociopathic, the bullies, and aggressive salespeople will take the brunt of it. If a few years the prisons would start to emptyout as old inmates died. The concept of "police" would evolve to something new. Either they would be something like "robo-cop", or they would become polite and respectable "peace officers". ...much more dependent on photo radar.

Some commonly used expressions would disappear. like;

Your dog is messing in my front yard.
No, that was a five dollar bill you gave me not a twenty.
I'm sorry, the restroom is for gas customers only.

jimbo
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 11:47 AM
Registered User
Southern MA. USA
Joined Jan 2003
623 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eljimb0
If every adult was carrying a loaded gun with them many things would happen. There would be a enormous number of casualties at the beginning. The learning process would be at first very messy and cruel. Idiots and the totally innocent would be equally affected. Eventually idiots, the sociopathic, the bullies, and aggressive salespeople will take the brunt of it. If a few years the prisons would start to emptyout as old inmates died. The concept of "police" would evolve to something new. Either they would be something like "robo-cop", or they would become polite and respectable "peace officers". ...much more dependent on photo radar.

Some commonly used expressions would disappear. like;

Your dog is messing in my front yard.
No, that was a five dollar bill you gave me not a twenty.
I'm sorry, the restroom is for gas customers only.

jimbo

Ah yes, the good old "wild west" syndrome, it's been predicted often before by the gun haters, but has never happened.

It seems that the intellegence and common sense of the American people have no trouble rising above the lower expectations that are placed on them by the more negative among us.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 12:03 PM
Darn trees!!!
Fairmont's Avatar
Atlanta, Georgia
Joined Mar 2008
427 Posts
I think we should openly carry.

I can't tell you how often I wish I had a gun when in the local saloon.

I'll admit that occasionally I hid an ace up my sleeve, but so do the other players too.

And Emma Lou, the barmaid, is always stirring up trouble by flirting for extra tips.

The piano player (our third this year) is pretty good, so hopefully I won't have to try to prevent someone from shooting him when he gets off key after a few drinks.

Of course, Rowdy Roy and his gang just got sprung over in Hangman's Bluff, and are due in town sometime this week. There's no telling what kind of trouble they're going to cause.

Finally, the sheriff has tuberculosis, and one of his deputies fell ill with cholera, so there's not much protection in the town these days. The gunshop is sold out and people are getting nervous (see paragraph about Rowdy Roy above).


And up until the last few days, my biggest complaint was that nobody's been cleaning up all the horse crap, and the flies are taking over the town.


I should have stayed in Missouri.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 12:23 PM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
13,179 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe M.
Ah yes, the good old "wild west" syndrome, it's been predicted often before by the gun haters, but has never happened.

It seems that the intellegence and common sense of the American people have no trouble rising above the lower expectations that are placed on them by the more negative among us.
Hey, great idea, all gun carriers should also ride horses, the 'goodies' should wear white or light colored cloths, and the 'baddies'....? well they always wear black don't they.

At least in the old cowboy films you knew who was a goodie or baddie, now.....?

Say are the 'original' Americans still allowed to carry bows and arrows?

Yes, I already know I'm a facetious twit. But I still love living in a country were gun crime and gun 'accidents' are still very very rare, and the need for a gun is even rarer still, usually only by a registered arm police officer, and they are just as rare.

Personally I don't mind if all Americans are allowed to carry and use guns, within their own borders.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 12:49 PM
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Southern MA. USA
Joined Jan 2003
623 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairmont
I think we should openly carry.

I can't tell you how often I wish I had a gun when in the local saloon.

I'll admit that occasionally I hid an ace up my sleeve, but so do the other players too.

And Emma Lou, the barmaid, is always stirring up trouble by flirting for extra tips.

The piano player (our third this year) is pretty good, so hopefully I won't have to try to prevent someone from shooting him when he gets off key after a few drinks.

Of course, Rowdy Roy and his gang just got sprung over in Hangman's Bluff, and are due in town sometime this week. There's no telling what kind of trouble they're going to cause.

Finally, the sheriff has tuberculosis, and one of his deputies fell ill with cholera, so there's not much protection in the town these days. The gunshop is sold out and people are getting nervous (see paragraph about Rowdy Roy above).


And up until the last few days, my biggest complaint was that nobody's been cleaning up all the horse crap, and the flies are taking over the town.


I should have stayed in Missouri.
Not everyone should be allowed to own or carry guns, your post is a good example of why.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 12:54 PM
Wake up and smell the veg
norite's Avatar
Canada, SK, Regina
Joined Aug 2004
172 Posts
Definitely open carry....

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Old Jun 28, 2008, 12:57 PM
Registered User
Southern MA. USA
Joined Jan 2003
623 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray
Hey, great idea, all gun carriers should also ride horses, the 'goodies' should wear white or light colored cloths, and the 'baddies'....? well they always wear black don't they.

At least in the old cowboy films you knew who was a goodie or baddie, now.....?

Say are the 'original' Americans still allowed to carry bows and arrows?

Yes, I already know I'm a facetious twit. But I still love living in a country were gun crime and gun 'accidents' are still very very rare, and the need for a gun is even rarer still, usually only by a registered arm police officer, and they are just as rare.

Personally I don't mind if all Americans are allowed to carry and use guns, within their own borders.
Sarcasim is usually used in place of a good arguement, in this case, it sems no different.

If you don't understand that a culture difference exist between yours and ours, you sould make an attempt to investigate it before inviting more hard feelings.

If you do understand that a cultural difference does exist, and you are just trying to be anti-social, then you are trollng, clearly against forum rules.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 01:21 PM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
13,179 Posts
Boy do I know there's a cultural difference, some tend to see some remarks as light entertainment others may see them as sarcasm.

This type of thread appears occasionally seemingly with the intension of causing some conflict between the for and against carry or even guns in total.

Wouldn't you prefer to not need to carry a gun for self defense? and therefore ensure that others including the criminals are disarmed. I don't know how it could be done, but is the 2nd amendment about self defense from criminals or about defending the democracy of the country?

I used to own a .22 target pistol, fully licensed, and was a member of a gun club. The gun was always locked in the gun club armory, there was never a need or want to take it home. That to me was the better situation.

Yes it is hard for some of us in other countries to 'understand' the gun culture. I personally cannot understand the 'right' or need to carry, if I lived in such an area that I felt in danger, I'd move, not buy a gun, (other than if I still belonged to a gun club for target shooting).
Some of the videos seen of Americans using all sorts of weapons out in the desert, shooting hell out of oil barrels, laughing and smiling, can seem a little scary to think those people probably keep those weapons at home. (locked and bolted away or not).

Yes it is a culture thing, but do you really want a culture that thinks guns are an important part of life?.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 02:32 PM
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ni'ihau
Joined Nov 2003
3,241 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray
Yes it is hard for some of us in other countries to 'understand' the gun culture.
......Some of the videos seen of Americans using all sorts of weapons out in the desert, shooting hell out of oil barrels, laughing and smiling,

Thanks for being honest and perceptive here.. It is not just a "gun" culture it is "our" culture. Things ARE different here. Some of us are very self-conscious of it, embarrassed by it, and want to be more like ANYBODY else.. Some of us are proud of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray
Yes it is a culture thing, but do you really want a culture that thinks guns are an important part of life?.
This is the culture that we have. You cannot chose the culture that you are born into. Trying to change someone else's culture is a 10,000 year old "tried and true" disaster recipe.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 02:40 PM
Darn trees!!!
Fairmont's Avatar
Atlanta, Georgia
Joined Mar 2008
427 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moe M.
Sarcasim is usually used in place of a good arguement, in this case, it sems no different.

If you don't understand that a culture difference exist between yours and ours, you sould make an attempt to investigate it before inviting more hard feelings.

If you do understand that a cultural difference does exist, and you are just trying to be anti-social, then you are trollng, clearly against forum rules.

Right on. We've got a serious guy on the bulletin board.

Hey, Moe. With a name like Moe you should know at least a little bit about comedy. It's not necessarily the same as sarcasm. Sure, sarcasm is frequently used in comedy, but a discriminating mind knows humor.

I'm not sure you do, Moe.

I was being funny.

I'll tell you something. I'm not usually this honest with people, but what the heck: I don't actually ride a horse, visit saloons, stick up for piano players, or worry about the sheriff's health.

I was joking, Moe.


Now, wait a minute. Larry, Curly and Moe. NOW I REMEMBER. Moe actually WAS the guy without a sense of humor.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 02:44 PM
Who, ME?
dll932's Avatar
Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
303 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray
Boy do I know there's a cultural difference, some tend to see some remarks as light entertainment others may see them as sarcasm.

This type of thread appears occasionally seemingly with the intension of causing some conflict between the for and against carry or even guns in total.

Wouldn't you prefer to not need to carry a gun for self defense? and therefore ensure that others including the criminals are disarmed. I don't know how it could be done, but is the 2nd amendment about self defense from criminals or about defending the democracy of the country?

I used to own a .22 target pistol, fully licensed, and was a member of a gun club. The gun was always locked in the gun club armory, there was never a need or want to take it home. That to me was the better situation.

Yes it is hard for some of us in other countries to 'understand' the gun culture. I personally cannot understand the 'right' or need to carry, if I lived in such an area that I felt in danger, I'd move, not buy a gun, (other than if I still belonged to a gun club for target shooting).
Some of the videos seen of Americans using all sorts of weapons out in the desert, shooting hell out of oil barrels, laughing and smiling, can seem a little scary to think those people probably keep those weapons at home. (locked and bolted away or not).

Yes it is a culture thing, but do you really want a culture that thinks guns are an important part of life?.
Unfortunately, there is no way to disarm criminals.

Shooting oil barrels, etc., in the desert is a safe cathartic for built up tension and aggression. You'll notice we don't have football hooliganism here the way you do in Europe (or very rarely)-maybe there's a method to our madness.

I derive great pleasure shooting up aerosol cans and the like and watching them go boom, but I never had the desire to hunt (not that there is anything wrong with it, as long as it's a merciful kill and you don't waste the meat), and at the extreme limits of anger I never even THOUGHT of picking up a gun.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 02:46 PM
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n00b-E's Avatar
United States, CO, Aurora
Joined Sep 2007
683 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray
Wouldn't you prefer to not need to carry a gun for self defense? and therefore ensure that others including the criminals are disarmed.
Yes, I'd prefer that, and I'd also prefer to be about 7" taller and 60lbs. more muscle. Neither are likely. As for disarming criminals, they don't care if they're breaking the law by carrying a weapon, they are criminals after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray
I don't know how it could be done, but is the 2nd amendment about self defense from criminals or about defending the democracy of the country?
Yes, on both counts. I also carry a sidearm when I'm in the woods hunting or fishing, humans aren't the only thing I'd like to defend myself against!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray
I used to own a .22 target pistol, fully licensed, and was a member of a gun club. The gun was always locked in the gun club armory, there was never a need or want to take it home. That to me was the better situation.
I'm glad you got to take advantage of what you believed to be the best option. To me, that isn't the best option, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray
Yes it is hard for some of us in other countries to 'understand' the gun culture. I personally cannot understand the 'right' or need to carry, if I lived in such an area that I felt in danger, I'd move, not buy a gun, (other than if I still belonged to a gun club for target shooting).
Some of the videos seen of Americans using all sorts of weapons out in the desert, shooting hell out of oil barrels, laughing and smiling, can seem a little scary to think those people probably keep those weapons at home. (locked and bolted away or not).
This just tells me you don't trust your fellow man to make good decisions, that just because they have a firearm your life is automatically in danger. I feel just the opposite and believe that the guys in the desert are just having fun shooting, and while I prefer more precision shooting over just shooting barrels up, no harm = no foul. Tell me what scares you, is it the guns, or the people with them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by eflightray
Yes it is a culture thing, but do you really want a culture that thinks guns are an important part of life?.
YES!
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 02:49 PM
Who, ME?
dll932's Avatar
Euclid Ohio
Joined May 2005
303 Posts
My preference is to have firearms concealed, because it gives you the option if you need it, but you won't escalate a situation by the visible presence of a firearm (or have the problem of retention, something police have to train specially for). I also carry a small, very powerful flashlight and a peppergas dispenser, along with my feet. In other words, I have a menu of options to fit the situation, with a firearm being the last of them. Keeping it concealed 1) HELPS me make it the last option and 2) makes criminals unsure of who's armed and who isn't, enabling a protective effect for those who choose not to carry.
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