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Old Feb 06, 2013, 02:53 PM
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United States, IL, Lombard
Joined May 2009
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Swift 16 with two 3S 2200mAh 35C Lipos in Series (con't)

5 Minute 1500 RPM Flight #3

Decided to discharge those 3S lipos last night and was able to get 5 minutes of 1530 RPM - 1410 RPM hovering, basically. The RPMs didn't drop as much as the last flight (down to 1370) and maintained longer local periods of constant RPM before dropping (more like steps as opposed to a ramp).

Century Swift 16 - Flight #3 - 1500 RPM Night Test Flight (6 min 31 sec)


I made two changes:
  1. Throttle curve changed to 0 - 70 - 75 - 77.50 - 80
  2. Pitch curve changed to 35 - 50 - 65 - 80 - 95
It appears that the slightly upward sloping throttle curve helped keep the RPMs from bogging when pitch was increased, and the less-steep pitch curve kept the changes in pitch smaller and more controllable. I really liked how the heli handled this time - can't wait to try her in a larger area where I can do some forward flight and circuits.

Both battery packs measured 11.36V after the flight, with cells at 3.80V, 3.79V and 3.76V.

UPDATE: 1428.5mAh put back into the packs! 17.16A average draw. 381 Watts. 286mAh/min. Estimated max. flight of 6 minutes 9 seconds.
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Old Feb 06, 2013, 07:25 PM
SUCK LESS
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United States, IL, Lombard
Joined May 2009
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Swift 16 with two 3S 2200mAh 35C Lipos in Series (con't)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesppp View Post
My favorite kind of flying. With the Heli Jive ESC I can just turn down the throttle curve
Just wish I could fly a fraction as potholes as Sebastian

Head speed here is 1100-1200 SMOOOOOOOOTH


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uG6uTANQMDM
Definitely more of my speed as well - Great Vid!

* * *

Flight #4, same curve settings as #3, but put 523mm Edge CF blades on the mains and 72mm Edge CF blades on the tail.

Century Swift - Flight #4 (5 min 36 sec)


Lots of wind noise in the audio track today, but bits and pieces show 1560 RPM just after lift off and 1440 RPM just before touch down. Much Better !

5 minute flight and the two packs are at 11.41V and 11.42V !!! Definitely used less amps to fly with those blades. How much less ? Let me re-charge them and find out ...

DUDE! 1303 mAh put back in !!! 15.6A average current draw. 346 Watts. 260mAh/min. Estimated max. flight time of 6 minutes 46 seconds! Ummmm - these Edge blades ROCK!

Heading out to a field for Flight #5 and some circuits With 6:46 estimated I should have some head room for a 5 minute flight with mildly banked turns, climbs, etc.

* * *
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 03:39 PM
SUCK LESS
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United States, IL, Lombard
Joined May 2009
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Swift 16 with two 3S 2200mAh 35C Lipos in Series (con't)

Flight #5, Edge blades, Keith's canopy, 2x 3S 2200 35C Lipos, open field, forward flight, wind, slightly higher throttle curve in idle up. 5 minute flight.

Century Swift - Flight #5 - 1500 RPM Field Time (5 min 59 sec)


Since the wind picked up (13mph) I decided to set the idle up throttle curve to 82.5 - 78.5 - 75 - 78.5 - 82.5, just in case, which I ended up using 4/5 mins of the flight. Normal throttle curve was 0 - 72.5 - 75 - 77.5 - 80. Pitch curves same as previous two flights.

Man, is she Quiet !!! And she handled great in the wind. For some reason I had a brain fart and convinced myself that I didn't start the timer, but I did. Too much excitement I guess

Batteries after the flight are at 11.49V and 11.48V. All cells over 3.8V These $20 Mini-Titan packs are working out fantastically.

Ready for this ... 1139 mAh put back in !??! 13.68 Amps. 304 WATTS! Estimated max. flight of 7 minutes 43 seconds. This is maddness!!! All in the 1500 RPM range. This thing is practically sourcing energy !

* * *
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 03:54 PM
AMA# SIMAGES
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Hudson Valley
Joined Dec 2006
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That canopy was made just for that project...
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 04:00 PM
SUCK LESS
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United States, IL, Lombard
Joined May 2009
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Hey Keith! How's that Nor'easter? Mid 30's here, with some unexpected wind. I heard 2-3 feet of snow for you guys ...

I really like the yellow canopy - helps me see her better I like how you trimmed the bottom of the canopy for the battery - leaving the front and sides (looks great).

Heading out for another flight - this is too much fun now ...
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 04:59 PM
AMA# SIMAGES
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Hudson Valley
Joined Dec 2006
2,338 Posts
Not bad here, low 30s and got around 18-24" and blew the extra 12" into CT. I wanted to get a plane or two in the air, but it was a bit breezy so I put the air boat in the snow and flew the Quadcopter. The brushed motor on the Airboat has gotten really weak. Maybe I'll put together my StevensAero WaterBoard.....
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Old Feb 09, 2013, 05:50 PM
SUCK LESS
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United States, IL, Lombard
Joined May 2009
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Swift 16 with two 3S 2200mAh 35C Lipos in Series (con't)

Nice! Way to ride out the storm

Okay - Flight #6, last one for the day, it's getting cold. 6 minutes! Different field, forward flight, circuits, etc. With the slightly higher throttle curve (idle up, windy) similar to the last flight.

Century Swift - Flight #6 1500 RPM 6 Minutes (7 min 17 sec)



Batteries measured 11.33V and 11.34V after the flight. She handled great, I froze my thumbs

1470 mAh put back in. 14.7 Avg. Amps. 326 Avg. Watts. Estimated max. flight time of 7 minutes 11 seconds. I'm almost not impressed anymore (jk) ... If I switch back to my 3300 6S pack I can easily get 10+ minute flights, but I'll wait until it gets warm here as my fingers & thumbs wouldn't survive a 10 minute flight in this cold ...

Conclusion so far: The Swift 16 with YEP 100A ESC (active freewheeling enabled), along with the Century 800kV motor, 12T pinion (96T main gear), Edge CF 523mm main and 72mm tail blades, stock paddles, 75%-80%-ish throttle curves, and two Turnigy Nano-Tech 3S 2200mAh 35C batteries in series allows for some very relaxing, easy-going 5-6+ minute flights in the 1500 RPM range with power consumption in the low 300 Watt range (in the cold, with wind, and skid pontoons). Awesome ...


***
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Old Feb 10, 2013, 04:39 PM
Back Yard Flyer
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Northern Ontario
Joined Mar 2007
1,587 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FR4-Pilot
Batteries measured 11.33V and 11.34V after the flight. She handled great, I froze my thumbs

1470 mAh put back in. 14.7 Amps. 326 Watts. Estimated max. flight time of 7 minutes 11 seconds. I'm almost not impressed anymore (jk) ... If I switch back to my 3300 6S pack I can easily get 10+ minute flights, but I'll wait until it gets warm here as my fingers & thumbs wouldn't survive a 10 minute flight in this cold ...

Awesome ...
Lookin’ good John! Pretty darn impressive flight times with those 2200’s (awesome for sure ) The downwind leg had her cruisin’ right along. The yellow canopy is pretty spiffy; your double striped ones look pretty damn good too. Some decent weather will make things much more enjoyable. The wind sucks and frost bite can set in pretty quick.

Pretty decent here today, all things considered (freezing point) Gonna maiden my latest…
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Old Feb 11, 2013, 09:01 PM
SUCK LESS
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United States, IL, Lombard
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Power Up View Post
Lookin’ good John! Pretty darn impressive flight times with those 2200’s (awesome for sure ) The downwind leg had her cruisin’ right along. The yellow canopy is pretty spiffy; your double striped ones look pretty damn good too. Some decent weather will make things much more enjoyable. The wind sucks and frost bite can set in pretty quick.

Pretty decent here today, all things considered (freezing point) Gonna maiden my latest…
Hey Al! I hope your maiden went well - terrible weather here, 50mph winds today

I'm surprised (and pleased) at how well the heli flies at 1500 RPM - very controllable, even in the wind With these 3S 2200s I'm saving around 150g in battery weight too. I think the tail response may have slowed as well - not sure. I need to do some piros to see what is really there at this RPM.
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Old Feb 14, 2013, 03:22 PM
Back Yard Flyer
Power Up's Avatar
Northern Ontario
Joined Mar 2007
1,587 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FR4-Pilot
Hey Al! I hope your maiden went well
No, didn’t happen! I certainly had full intentions, but one of those - require homeowners immediate attention scenarios that arise from time to time, well, had one . Pretty hectic! Now back to normal…

Reverting to the discharge feature on the charger is not what I had in mind for this lipo. Going to patiently wait for Spring… unless

Quote:
terrible weather here, 50mph winds today
Now, that’s packin’ some punch!

Quote:
I need to do some piros to see what is really there at this RPM.
Sounds like a plan! Losing the tail during aerobatics would be good for nothing but a sudden spike in adrenaline .
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 12:14 AM
SUCK LESS
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United States, IL, Lombard
Joined May 2009
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I've put together some estimates based on what I've measured so far and what I've read on these great forums It'll be fun to see how close future real-life flights compare to the pre-calculated numbers Again, not trying to pinpoint an exact RPM, rather just to be able to say with a little confidence what range the RPMs are (+/- 50 RPM?) for a given setup and throttle curve.

The power required for the 1450 RPM range (below, in chart) maybe be bogus. I'm assuming a linear relationship but there will be a lower limit or plateau which I'm thinking is around 275W-325W. I believe I read 50W-60W, minimum, per pound of heli to lift it into a hover within a reasonable (?) amount of time. I also read 100W/lb for aerobatics, 120W/lb for 3D, and 150+W/lb for extreme 3D are good rules of thumb.

Mass Measurements
My Swift 16 (w Edge main & tail blades, w/o battery): .....4.5 lbs (2041g)
Two 3S 2200 Lipos & Y-Adapter: ..................................0.904 lbs (410g) AUW: 5.4lbs (2449g)
6S 3300 Lipo #1: .................................................. ........1.130 lbs (513g) AUW: 5.6lbs (2540g)
6S 3300 Lipo #2: .................................................. ........1.234 lbs (560g) AUW: 5.7lbs (2585g)



1400 RPM Test Flights***
  • Flight #8
  • Backyard Hovering
  • 4 minute 19 second flight
  • 2x 3S 2200 30C Zippy Lipos
  • 971mAh used
  • 13.50A Average
  • 300W Average
  • RPM Range: 1440 (begin) to 1350 (end)
  • 7 minute 49 second estimated flight time
  • Video
  • Flight #9
  • Forward Flight
  • 4 minute 19 second flight
  • 2x 3S 2200 30C Zippy Lipos
  • 886mAh used
  • 12.32A Average
  • 274W Average
  • RPM Range: 1440 (begin) to 1350 (end)
  • 8 minute 34 second estimate flight time
  • Video
Notes: Decided to reduce cyclic expo and tail dual rates to help speed those controls up a bit (in 2nd video only). Results don't agree with 225W/10.14A in chart, but do agree with 50W/lb (for forward flight) and 55w/lb (for hovering). Should I try a 1350 test (67.5% throttle curve) ?

1300 RPM Test Flights (not in chart)
  • Flight #10
  • Backyard Hovering
  • 4 minute 15 second flight
  • 2x 3S 2200 30C Zippy Lipos
  • 912mAh used
  • 12.88A Average
  • 286W Average
  • RPM Range: 1350 (begin) to 1260 (end)
  • 8 minute 12 second estimated flight time
  • Video
  • Flight #11
  • Forward Flight
  • 4 minute 16 second flight
  • 2x 3S 2200 30C Zippy Lipos
  • 828mAh used
  • 11.64A Average
  • 258W Average
  • RPM Range: 1350 (begin) to 1260 (end)
  • 9 minute 4 second estimated flight time
  • Video
Notes: Totally eliminated cyclic expo and increased dual rates for tail to 85%. Heli handled fantastically at this head speed Way better then I thought it would. And was capable of pretty fast forward speed as well. The motor did seem to sag (only slightly) every once in a while when applying sudden collective pitch or during a hard piro. This may be the lower throttle curve/RPM limit for the 12T pinion.

***
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Last edited by FR4-Pilot; Feb 25, 2013 at 02:33 PM.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 01:29 PM
Committed heli addict...
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Joined Jan 2010
675 Posts
You may also be able to save a few amps by making adjustments to the belt tension. With my original setup on the first few flights, the average draw was around 26A and after belt adjustments it went down to 21-22A. (6S 12T 800kv 4800mAh, stock main, 1800rpm) With the lower hs you are using, the tension needn't be as tight as for hard 3D. It can bet tricky to adjust perfectly. Having to make it loose but not so loose that the belt hits itself inside the boom or that it skips on the tail gear.

I'm also trying to find a helical gearing setup that will work with the swift that will really quiet the heli down so that all I hear is a little bit of the motor and blades slapping the air.(future build)

BTW, great job on the videos and the information presented statistically. Very professional like.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 01:50 PM
SUCK LESS
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United States, IL, Lombard
Joined May 2009
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Thanks Phoenix - it's almost as fun as flying It's looking like an EagleTree eLogger V4 might be helpful here ...

Good idea with the belt ... Wow! That's a pretty good savings in current you got by loosening it. When I built this heli I made an effort to leave it a little loose, but not too loose, I hope. My NX on the other hand definitely needs some loosening.

Helical gears would be awesome! I hope you succeed with that ... and share some of the results !
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 08:17 PM
If I build it, it will fly
United States, NY, East Rochester
Joined Jan 2012
712 Posts
Taxes are coming & the stars are aligning...

I have a swift NX lined up, I'm battery shopping, need input.
I am a fan of higher volts/lower amps, and the bird is set up as a 6s power train.

Does anyone have first hand experience with: zippy flightmax, zippy compact, turnigy (not nano-tech) 6s lines? Are they suitable for these helis?
I have 3x turnigy 3s 2200mah 40c packs that I run on my planes, could I just get a few more of these & run two or four in 6s configs?

How heavy can I go on the lipo without needing to add ballast aft of the main shaft?

~psguardian
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Old Feb 18, 2013, 10:05 AM
Beginner Pilot
United States, NY, Coram
Joined Jul 2012
374 Posts
Hey guys, I still have my nx airframe and a bunch of spare parts of anyone wants to make an offer or wants more info, pm me. Thanks.
Jeff
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