SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jul 15, 2001, 09:22 PM
Registered User
Central NJ
Joined Mar 2001
708 Posts
Zagi loosing altitude in the turns ?

I've been out learning to fly my Zagi, it's a great plane but much faster then my trainer planes. I've got a 7 inch prop on this and a 400sp motor and it is a missle ( for me anyway ) ... When I can get to the park with hardly any people around it's not too bad but when kids show up and start having ballgames I have to move to one corner of the field and I have to restrict my flying area so I don't risk hitting anyone.Now, when I have the whole field to myself I can stand in the middle, let her run pretty quickly, cover alot of ground and let her do her quick turns.... but when I fly in the restrictive corner I throttle down alittle more to keep it in my space away from people.... on 1/4 to 1/3 throttle she flies nice and level in a straight run, but when I go to turn she really loses altitude sometimes and tends to want to nose into the ground..... is cranking up more throttle in a turn the only way to stop this ? Or can I make a modification to the Zagi to make it turn easy without increasing the throttle so much ?
The Zagi is cool though.... when I get into trouble I just cut the motor and she seems to just go into a nice glide back to Earth...

I ran into some trees today but I can't entirely blame myself, I was trying to play it safe and stay away from the kids playing...better a busted plane then a busted kid... the Zagi smashed into the branches about 30 ft up, I thought it would get stuck but it fell down to the ground... all that broke was a rubber band...what a great plane.
Good thing I went to WallyMart yesterday, I got some flourescent Post-it notes and taped them on my black-taped battery packs...I'd have never found that battery pack in the bushes if they were still black !
Feodosia Flyer is offline Find More Posts by Feodosia Flyer
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jul 15, 2001, 10:02 PM
It's a really big number.
Brisbane Intl, Australia
Joined Jan 2001
1,315 Posts
My $0.02

Flying wings get 'draggy' and lose lift on corners as you increase the reflex on the back edge with your elevons. Try and do a sharp 90 deg 'coat hanger' turn (do this HIGH up please)- some wings will just about stop dead in the air. Not much you can do as far as I know - just make your turns gentler at low throttle.

As for nose drop - 1) could either by the nose twisting is because the machine is sinking (tail fins at work), or 2) if its a real bender of a turn you may be about to stall the lower wing.

Has the zagi ever 'flicked' over into a vertical dive when you've had the sink problem? if so, I'd say 2).
Googleplex is offline Find More Posts by Googleplex
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 15, 2001, 10:06 PM
Fun Flyin
Escondido, CA, USA
Joined Mar 2001
289 Posts
Sharp turns are just hard to do with low throttle settings. With high speed, it works fine but the flying wing does have a lot of drag. The best thing to do is turn slowly but sharp.......If you know what I mean. Kind of ease into it.

Have fun!
funflyer is offline Find More Posts by funflyer
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 15, 2001, 11:11 PM
Looking for a place to crash
United States, WI, DeForest
Joined Jul 2001
452 Posts
go fast and stay high. My first e plane is a zagi and I had the same problem as you are.
I tried flying in a small field and found that i wuld only get about 30 to 40 feet off the ground, try to do a sharp turn and it would hit the dirt. Slow turns were ok but just like you I was trying to keep in a small area.
I now fly in a cut hay field in the farm country of WI. I have now learned that get the altitude first then go for the tight turns. Your zagi will drop it's nose on a slow turn, this is a fact and only speed will help.

Go to a bigger field and play around, but get it up there... Once you have mastered a Zagi, it's a blast...


larry
larryb is offline Find More Posts by larryb
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 15, 2001, 11:37 PM
Registered User
Texas
Joined Aug 1999
5,110 Posts
Quote:
I've got a 7 inch prop on this and a 400sp motor


Is that on a direct drive 400? A seven with what pitch?!? A 7" prop is too much for an s400. Many people run a 6x4 prop, but the best IMO is a ~5.5x4.5. An s400 motor does not have a lot of torque and it is best run higher RPMs on a smaller prop.
dave_lilley is offline Find More Posts by dave_lilley
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2001, 02:07 AM
Registered User
South San Francisco
Joined Jun 2001
67 Posts
When you push the stick in the direction of the turn are you pulling down slightly on the stick to keep the nose up? Every wing I've ever seen will drop the nose if you just push the stick left or right. It's called gravity. If you compensate by pulling back slightly, your elevons should "mix" and you shouldn't lose any altitude if done right.

[This message has been edited by dano (edited 07-16-2001).]
dano is offline Find More Posts by dano
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2001, 03:00 AM
Profiled Interfractionalist
William A's Avatar
Tacoma,WA USA
Joined Jun 2001
4,040 Posts
Ya, what Dano said, kick it on its side and yank that stick back, then level out, done.
William A is online now Find More Posts by William A
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2001, 03:57 AM
Model Designer
keven64's Avatar
United Kingdom, England, Burnley
Joined Apr 2001
5,501 Posts
Hello,

You do that and the thing'll stall - surely ?reynolds numbers = Zero with too much Yank !

Keven.
keven64 is offline Find More Posts by keven64
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2001, 05:52 AM
Registered User
Bracknell, Berks, UK
Joined Jul 2001
64 Posts
Check out

<a href="http://www.ezonemag.com/disc/Forum7/HTML/002446.html">delta wings in turns</a>

(assuming the html stuff works !
SimonWood is offline Find More Posts by SimonWood
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2001, 07:45 AM
Registered User
Central NJ
Joined Mar 2001
708 Posts
Yes, I know from flying my other planes that when you turn you also pull back on the stick but the flying wing just flies differently then the trainer planes I am used to, the nose seems to want to drop more in a turn...
Yes, I go low throttle on the straight runs and when I turn at the low throttle speed, the flying wing creates too much drag, slows itself down too much.....and then she tends to want to nose in...I'm sure the heavy battery pack in the front helps her nose down too....when I had a lighter battery on the plane the nose-ins weren't quite so hard.

So I'm just going to have to polish my skills and learn to goose the speed alittle in a turn... or only fly the Zagi when I have the field to myself and can stand in the middle away from the row of trees...

I made an interchangable motor mount on my Zagi so I can try different setups.. A great combo I've tried so far is this 400 sp 7.2v
with a 1.7 to 1 gearbox and 7 inch prop.... it has great thrust , power and long endurance....I use 600 mah batteries and stay up a good long time...

thanks for sharing your Zagi knowledge !


[This message has been edited by Feodosia Flyer (edited 07-16-2001).]
Feodosia Flyer is offline Find More Posts by Feodosia Flyer
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2001, 03:18 PM
Profiled Interfractionalist
William A's Avatar
Tacoma,WA USA
Joined Jun 2001
4,040 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by keven64:
Hello,

You do that and the thing'll stall - surely ?reynolds numbers = Zero with too much Yank !

Keven.
????? you must be going to slow, I do it all the time.
William A is online now Find More Posts by William A
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2001, 03:25 PM
Registered User
Central NJ
Joined Mar 2001
708 Posts
Yes, I have to keep reminding myself....the Zagi is not a slowflyer...the Zagi is not a slowflyer...
Feodosia Flyer is offline Find More Posts by Feodosia Flyer
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2001, 03:58 PM
Profiled Interfractionalist
William A's Avatar
Tacoma,WA USA
Joined Jun 2001
4,040 Posts
I'm no expert on the subject, I just fly alot. But I picked up this habit(style) of flying with my IFO, doing pylon stuff around my apple trees in the back yard. Yes, I know there nowhere near the same type of plane, but some of the same technique does fall over to the zagi, as long as the speed is kept up, she wont stall. I even get the 'zagi flap' in some of my turns.
William A is online now Find More Posts by William A
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2001, 04:02 PM
RIP Ric
Andy W's Avatar
Marietta, GA
Joined Jun 1999
43,312 Posts
Haven't read all the responses, so this may be repetition but: as you turn, less of the 'lift' is directed "down" towards the earth - a component is now directed 'in', that's partly what makes it turn. So, if you're losing lift, the model is going to lose altitude. You can help by applying 'up' elevator, which, as you're on your side (or some way there) some component of 'up' will also apply to 'in', making the turn sharper.
So, yes, the only way to prevent this without a rudder is to use elevator to compensate. Moving the CG back will also help a little, but that may make the model a little too unstable for your liking..
..a
Andy W is offline Find More Posts by Andy W
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2001, 10:31 PM
Registered User
Central NJ
Joined Mar 2001
708 Posts
Well, did some more experimenting tonight...

I guess in my park I am looking for powered-glider performance from my Zagi right now.... too many people run onto the field from out of nowhere to be flying a fast ship( at my skill level )....

Tonight I dropped down to a 7-cell 600 mah pack ( from an 8-cell) and the Zagi THL handled slower, easier and was better in the turns, no nose-ins today...So the heavier battery pack was dragging the nose down at lower speeds...I think I'll have to stick to 7 cell packs in my park.....with the lighter battery pack she was maybe alittle tail heavy but perhaps I could have trimmed her down alittle more...
Only one snafu,a death spiral tonight when a kid popped out of the woods and I tried some drastic about-face manuevers...

Is it possible to reverse a folding prop to make it work as a pusher ? Any brands reverse better then others and come in a 7 inch size ? I ask because the screw of my prop adaptor came loose, the prop fell off, and wow, it glided forever up there and made the smoothest landing ever ! Now I see what they mean about prop drag, a folding prop would be cool for gliding...
Feodosia Flyer is offline Find More Posts by Feodosia Flyer
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Altitude loss in turns, why? del Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 10 Mar 09, 2005 12:12 AM
Question Zagi "wobbles" in turns... Mikey C. Flying Wings 15 Jun 11, 2004 08:06 AM
Zagi Dropping in Turns, Elevon Differential green66 Foamies (Kits) 4 Mar 27, 2002 09:04 PM
Zagi RPMs drop in dive? Arbee Foamies (Kits) 0 Dec 15, 2001 04:21 PM
Delta wings in turns SimonWood Power Systems 24 Jul 06, 2001 12:14 AM