HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old May 31, 2008, 07:12 PM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2007
50 Posts
Discussion
Can i run my nitro motor with gasoline?

Can i run my nitro motor with gasoline? what will happen if i do?
feddog is offline Find More Posts by feddog
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old May 31, 2008, 07:16 PM
I don't want to "Switch Now"
pmackenzie's Avatar
Toronto (Don Mills), Canada
Joined Dec 2002
16,942 Posts
You need a spark plug for gasoline.
The glow plug reacts to the methanol in glow fuel. Without it the motor won't run.

Pat MacKenzie

edit - more correctly, the methanol reacts to the platinum in the glow plug
pmackenzie is offline Find More Posts by pmackenzie
Last edited by pmackenzie; May 31, 2008 at 07:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old May 31, 2008, 07:40 PM
AMA # L576
vhoward1122's Avatar
United States, OR, North Bend
Joined Sep 2006
2,227 Posts
And you would need a spark ignition system to run the spark plug.
vhoward1122 is offline Find More Posts by vhoward1122
Reply With Quote
Old May 31, 2008, 09:05 PM
Registered User
Wayne V's Avatar
London, Ontario, Canada
Joined Jan 2006
1,491 Posts
And you will get less power and on gas it will run a lot hotter, you will also need to run the same % of oil in the gas as what is recommended for your engine, also most glow carbs do not work well with gas.
Wayne V is offline Find More Posts by Wayne V
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2008, 06:03 AM
NM2K
Ringgold, GA, USA
Joined Jan 2006
1,045 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne V
And you will get less power and on gas it will run a lot hotter, you will also need to run the same % of oil in the gas as what is recommended for your engine, also most glow carbs do not work well with gas.

----------


If it was a good thing to do, most of us would already be doing it, instead of paying $20 a gallon, or thereabouts, for glow fuel.


Ed Cregger
Artisan is offline Find More Posts by Artisan
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2008, 05:27 PM
The reviewer
XJet's Avatar
Tokoroa
Joined Mar 2004
3,827 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artisan
----------
If it was a good thing to do, most of us would already be doing it, instead of paying $20 a gallon, or thereabouts, for glow fuel.
Model fuel prices are very interesting.

Methanol (the primary constituent of glow-fuel) is about the same price as gasoline, in fact from time to time it's even cheaper in some places.

So it's really just the oil and nitro that make it so expensive, and the USA has backed itself into a corner on that.

Much of the rest of the world used to use fuel with 0% nitro for many years. I recall flying a blend of 80/20 methanol/castor from the 1960s right through to the mid 1990s and never had any problems.

The USA however, became hooked on nitro (because they could) back in the 1970s/80s.

Compression ratios were lowered on US engines and nitro-percentages were hiked because it was a really easy way to get more power.

Meanwhile, Europeans and antepodians continued their no/low nitro flying without any problems.

Unfortunately, the USA is (arguably) the world's largest market for glow motors so most of the major manufacturers such as OS, etc started making sure that their engines would digest higher nitro ratios without protest -- ie: they lowered the CR.

This mean that many of us in the rest of the world were forced to start adding nitro to our fuel, just to claw back some of the power that was lost in the reduction of CRs

But think about this...

If we switched back to hi-compression engines and swapped the nasty/cheap PAG-based synthetics that the USA accepts as "model synthetic" for a better quality oil that could be run at half the percentage, suddenly model fuel would not only get a lot cheaper but you'd also get a lot more minutes per tank.

If you *had* to have the power boost that nitro offers (and it's not as great as you might think in most engines) you could use a tuned muffler or just move to a size-larger engine.

The way I see it, by doing this, model fuel should not be too much more expensive than gasoline and everybody (except the nitro companies and those flogging anti-freeze as oil) would be better off.

Or have I got this wrong?
XJet is offline Find More Posts by XJet
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2008, 06:34 PM
Mach 1
pathfinder's Avatar
walterboro s.c.u.s.a
Joined Jun 2004
764 Posts
I agree with the no nitro concept I can just remember those days,
It seems Americans like spending or throwing away thier money even if we don't have any, ie credit cards.I don't know where or when we went wrong.
Gas prices have gone up and no one here where I live cares about it.Its like everyone is in shock.And the rich just look at you like snobs from a mob.I blame it on the Bush dynasty...The electric rc craze came along and lots of flyers switched and are know shuning down on wet flyers.They expexct me to go out and spend money, (again spend money) on something I don't really need right now. I have an airforce of nitro stuff I don't want to "spend money"If it ain't broke don't fix the thing..The big auto makers are the hitlers of our time.Give us an afordable car that gets better gas mileage
before gas prices get so high that it will be cheaper to run model fuel in our cars.......there is so much money to made in the future of new auto technology and new fuels.The auto compnnies are just beating us to it and leaving us out...they are what runs this mother earth and are slowly destroying it in front of our eyes. (And by the way dont run gas in that rc engine it will destroy it)

jimmy.p.
pathfinder is online now Find More Posts by pathfinder
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by pathfinder; Jun 01, 2008 at 06:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2008, 09:24 PM
Registered User
Joined May 2004
675 Posts
Hmmmm. Try as I might I can't recall ever having been forced into buying any particular engine, or for that matter a gas guzzling automobile. I have done so but the choice was mine, not that of any politician.

jess
Jessiej is offline Find More Posts by Jessiej
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2008, 09:31 PM
Registered User
downunder's Avatar
Adelaide, South Australia
Joined Sep 2003
3,092 Posts
Just to give a rough idea of why nitro isn't used much outside America, I mix my own zero nitro fuel. Methanol is about $1.25 a litre and my castor is $8 a litre. I mix 4 litres of methanol ($5) with 1 litre of oil and end up with 5 litres of ready to go fuel for $13 (call it ~$10 per US gallon). If I wanted a 10% nitro blend I'd take out half a litre of methanol (saving 63 cents ) and add half a litre of nitro costing $11 for a total cost of ~$23 for 5 litres. Taking into account the higher fuel consumption I've then effectively doubled the cost of my fuel. All for a bit of nitro .

So far I've never yet come across an engine that won't work very well on zero nitro.
downunder is offline Find More Posts by downunder
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2008, 09:59 PM
The reviewer
XJet's Avatar
Tokoroa
Joined Mar 2004
3,827 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder
So far I've never yet come across an engine that won't work very well on zero nitro.
I should introduce you to the ASP61 (red-head) that someone had at our field a week or two ago.

It just would *not* run well on 0% fuel. It acted like it was too rich (burbly and running rough) but when you tried to lean it, it just died.

It had the hottest plug we could find in it too.

Then we switched to fuel with just 5% nitro and it ran sweet as could be.

*some* engines really do need nitro.

And let me see you get a YS 4-stroke to run properly on 0%!
XJet is offline Find More Posts by XJet
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 01, 2008, 11:29 PM
Mach 1
pathfinder's Avatar
walterboro s.c.u.s.a
Joined Jun 2004
764 Posts
We need Clarance Lee ,to come in on this one.
And there is not one sentence that contains the word force in my post .I just said my piece something that americans are now too dang chickin to do anymore....i wont back off bring it on pee wee!!!!!!!!1
pathfinder is online now Find More Posts by pathfinder
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Nice
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 02, 2008, 09:38 AM
Registered User
downunder's Avatar
Adelaide, South Australia
Joined Sep 2003
3,092 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by XJet
I should introduce you to the ASP61 (red-head) that someone had at our field a week or two ago.

It just would *not* run well on 0% fuel. It acted like it was too rich (burbly and running rough) but when you tried to lean it, it just died.
My son had exactly the same problem with his SC 1.08 but a plug change had it running sweet as you like . The Taipan 4 stroke plug is my current favourite.
downunder is offline Find More Posts by downunder
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 04, 2008, 01:48 PM
Registered User
Spring TX
Joined Feb 2007
123 Posts
On the other forum I have a couple of threads on converting glow to gas. Both two and four strokers. Yes they do lose a small amount of power but it isn't as much as one might expect. Yes they do run a little hotter and each have been slightly different in exactly how much hotter but it is generally around 15 to 25 degs hotter. The engines need to be ringed and unless you put needle bearings on the conrod you have to run 16:1 or greater oil to fuel ratio to keep the rod bushing alive. (Four strokes have a slightly different requirement on the oil ratio) My SuperTigre G51 has 34 hours on gasoline/oil and is running great. I can fly over an hour on 8 oz and that engine runs better than when it was on 15% glow although it has some mods including raising the C/R and port timing. The stock glow carb worked but has since received some mods to improve transition as well. Conversions like this ARE NOT for the faint of heart but for someone with the right background it's certainly not hard.
Jezmo is offline Find More Posts by Jezmo
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 04, 2008, 03:11 PM
NM2K
Ringgold, GA, USA
Joined Jan 2006
1,045 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by XJet
Model fuel prices are very interesting.

Methanol (the primary constituent of glow-fuel) is about the same price as gasoline, in fact from time to time it's even cheaper in some places.

So it's really just the oil and nitro that make it so expensive, and the USA has backed itself into a corner on that.

Much of the rest of the world used to use fuel with 0% nitro for many years. I recall flying a blend of 80/20 methanol/castor from the 1960s right through to the mid 1990s and never had any problems.

The USA however, became hooked on nitro (because they could) back in the 1970s/80s.

Compression ratios were lowered on US engines and nitro-percentages were hiked because it was a really easy way to get more power.

Meanwhile, Europeans and antepodians continued their no/low nitro flying without any problems.

Unfortunately, the USA is (arguably) the world's largest market for glow motors so most of the major manufacturers such as OS, etc started making sure that their engines would digest higher nitro ratios without protest -- ie: they lowered the CR.

This mean that many of us in the rest of the world were forced to start adding nitro to our fuel, just to claw back some of the power that was lost in the reduction of CRs

But think about this...

If we switched back to hi-compression engines and swapped the nasty/cheap PAG-based synthetics that the USA accepts as "model synthetic" for a better quality oil that could be run at half the percentage, suddenly model fuel would not only get a lot cheaper but you'd also get a lot more minutes per tank.

If you *had* to have the power boost that nitro offers (and it's not as great as you might think in most engines) you could use a tuned muffler or just move to a size-larger engine.

The way I see it, by doing this, model fuel should not be too much more expensive than gasoline and everybody (except the nitro companies and those flogging anti-freeze as oil) would be better off.

Or have I got this wrong?

--------------


I've been saying the same thing for many, many years, Xjet. Not all Americans enjoy burning nitro methane in fuel. Now that YS and Saito have reduced their compression ratios to accept higher nitromethane in the fuel, the old timer that prefers 5% or less nitromethane is left to his own resources. I compensate these days by buying older European engines or Enya engines. I don't miss the nitro one bit. I agree about the oil too. It is time we moved up in technology and began burning the latest synthetic oil from Europe that runs at half the mandatory content.


Ed Cregger
Artisan is offline Find More Posts by Artisan
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 04, 2008, 05:19 PM
Registered User
Spring TX
Joined Feb 2007
123 Posts
I'm not going to wade in on the Nitro issue but the oil one amazes me. Why don't we have better oils here? I know Brian at Coopers has good stuff but it is not available in the Houston Texas area. Maybe some day.......fingers crossed.
Jezmo is offline Find More Posts by Jezmo
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can you break in a motor with an esc already attached? tumbleweed Power Systems 4 May 02, 2003 09:04 AM
How Many Cell Can I Run On This Motor? Joe Elston Power Systems 1 Oct 03, 2002 12:38 AM
What motor can I replace my 1010/2y with buzzsaw 46 Electric Plane Talk 2 Jul 05, 2002 12:16 AM
May Buy GWS Zero - Can I use my Qualcomm Bats with it? mrebman Parkflyers 21 May 05, 2002 10:06 PM
Forgive me as I am about to sin...can I use a gas motor with the hw730?? bruff Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 13 Mar 29, 2002 11:20 PM