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Old May 26, 2008, 01:15 PM
DO OR DO NOT--THERE IS NO TRY
United States, AZ, Prescott Valley
Joined Mar 2006
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Are We Fine Art Craftsmen????

HI ALL,

HEY, ARE WE ARTISTS ?

CAN THE FLAT BOX KIT BUILDERS OF MUSEUM OR NEAR MUSEUM QUALITY SCALE MODEL BOATS BE CALLED FINE ART ARTISAN CRAFTSMEN? I'M TALKING ABOUT THOSE OF US WHO BUILD MODELS FROM COMPANIES LIKE CALDERCRAFT, DEANS MARINE AND EVEN SOME OF THE DUMAS ADVANCES LEVEL KITS.

I'M ASKING BECAUSE I AM CONSIDERING ENTERING A JURIED "FINE ARE AND CRAFT" STUDIO TOUR TO TAKE PLACE IN THE FALL, HERE IN NORTHERN ARIZONA "ART" COUNTRY.

ONE ARGUMENT IS THAT IF I/WE DO NOT START WITHA BLANK CHUNK OF WOOD OR METAL AND BUILD A MUSEUM OR NEAR MUSEUM MODEL FROM GENERIC MATERIALS, THEN I/WE ARE NOT FINE ART CRAFTSMEN.

I'D REALLY LIKE TO KNOW WHAT YOU ALL THING ABOUT THIS.

TAKE CARE,

AZCAPTAIN
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Old May 26, 2008, 01:25 PM
Veni, Vidi, Feci
patmat2350's Avatar
Motor City
Joined Dec 2004
12,298 Posts
Go for it.
Some get hung up on the distinction between ARTS and CRAFTS, which is why they call it a Fine Art & Crafts show... I think the distinction is between doing original stuff (as in new ideas original) versus slight variations on well known manual crafts.

Craftsman can certainly bring a bit of originality (your unique weathering methods, for example)... but those who insist that they are ARTISTS may direct you to the Crafts side of the tent...
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Old May 26, 2008, 01:34 PM
Registered User
Monterey Bay California
Joined Feb 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patmat2350
...but those who insist that they are ARTISTS may direct you to the Crafts side of the tent...

LOL! but notice, despite the number of "artists", most artwork in those tents looks the same...
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Old May 26, 2008, 01:51 PM
USA'd ex Brit
toesup's Avatar
Back.. In California
Joined Aug 2006
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I dont know if you built boats / aircraft from kits if you could class yourself as an 'artist'... You are just taking a box of parts and putting them together.
Would you call yourself a 'Furniture maker' if you could put a shelf unit together you bought as a flat pack from Ikea?.

Now if you built from your own drawings and did all the cutting out yourself...
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Old May 26, 2008, 01:52 PM
"day ain't over yet-"
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Western N.Y. winemaking country
Joined Jun 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerominded
LOL! but notice, despite the number of "artists", most artwork in those tents looks the same...
Aerominded, my wife and I attend a lot of art shows where crafts are also on exhibit/for sale.

And you're right, a LOT of it looks the same---.

As for being a craftsman, the builder's quality says it, just as well as the artist's creativity shows in his work---.

I've seen some builders take a Model Slipway or Caldercraft kit, and turn it into a piece of CRAP---.

Azcap, if you do nice, tidy work, call yourself whatever you wish, you've earned it---.
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Old May 26, 2008, 01:56 PM
USA'd ex Brit
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Back.. In California
Joined Aug 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by der kapitan
I've seen some builders take a Model Slipway or Caldercraft kit, and turn it into a piece of CRAP---.



Now THATS funny Der Kap!
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Old May 26, 2008, 02:31 PM
DO OR DO NOT--THERE IS NO TRY
United States, AZ, Prescott Valley
Joined Mar 2006
152 Posts
"The builder's quality....."

I think your statement about "the builder's quality says it, just as well as the artist's creativity shows", etc. is the key. I'll hang my hat on that. I've attached some photos of my last Caldercraft kit completion which some of you may have already seen.

I'm now trying to get published a manuscript I wrote about this build.

My current project is the CalderCraft Shaaronhorn--the 1930's German Steam Yacht. My goal is to do a "build thread" on this project, which I haven't tried on the rcgroups site.

Thanks for all of the very interesting opinons. RC Groups never diappoints, does it

AZCAPTAIN



Quote:
Originally Posted by der kapitan
Aerominded, my wife and I attend a lot of art shows where crafts are also on exhibit/for sale.

And you're right, a LOT of it looks the same---.

As for being a craftsman, the builder's quality says it, just as well as the artist's creativity shows in his work---.

I've seen some builders take a Model Slipway or Caldercraft kit, and turn it into a piece of CRAP---.

Azcap, if you do nice, tidy work, call yourself whatever you wish, you've earned it---.
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Old May 26, 2008, 02:58 PM
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N.E.Mass.
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We have had this discussion before about the ''museum quality'' stuff. One can put a cave painting next to a Rembrant. The cave painting is crude and lacking in super fine detail when compaired to the Rembrant, But both are ''museum quality items.

There are simple boats like the old K&O'S in museums as well as highly detailed down to the last nut and bolt,both are art and both are crafts.

Your Caldercraft Milford Star is great and it would fit in both catagories.

For the most part we in this hobby are both artists AND craftsmen regardless of the expertese we have. From scratch builder to kit builder we are artisans at our craft.
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Old May 26, 2008, 03:17 PM
DO OR DO NOT--THERE IS NO TRY
United States, AZ, Prescott Valley
Joined Mar 2006
152 Posts
Well Said

HI CHARLIE,

...........WELL SAID. I THINK YOU COVERED THE "WHOLE ENCHILATA"

THANKS,

AZ CAPTAIN
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlie eaton
We have had this discussion before about the ''museum quality'' stuff. One can put a cave painting next to a Rembrant. The cave painting is crude and lacking in super fine detail when compaired to the Rembrant, But both are ''museum quality items.

There are simple boats like the old K&O'S in museums as well as highly detailed down to the last nut and bolt,both are art and both are crafts.

Your Caldercraft Milford Star is great and it would fit in both catagories.

For the most part we in this hobby are both artists AND craftsmen regardless of the expertese we have. From scratch builder to kit builder we are artisans at our craft.
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Old May 27, 2008, 10:07 AM
Old wreck in Milwaukee
Prins Willem's Avatar
United States, WI, West Allis
Joined May 2007
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According to Mirriam-Webster's online:

Craftsmanship
One entry found.

craftsman

Main Entry:

Pronunciation:
\ˈkraf(t)s-mən\
Function:
noun
Date:
13th century

1 : a worker who practices a trade or handicraft
2 : one who creates or performs with skill or dexterity especially in the manual arts <jewelry made by European craftsmen>


artist
9 entries found.

Main Entry:

Pronunciation:
\ˈär-tist\
Function:
noun
Date:
circa 1507

1 aobsolete : one skilled or versed in learned arts barchaic : physician
carchaic : artisan 1
2 a: one who professes and practices an imaginative art b: a person skilled in one of the fine arts
3: a skilled performer; especially : artiste
4: one who is adept at something <con artist> <strikeout artist>

You decide whether you are a artiste or a craftsman. I have learned long ago
"that beauty in in the eye of the beer holder".
The event organizers will ultimately decide what they will categorise you as.
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Old May 27, 2008, 10:33 AM
3 Blades to the Wind
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Atascadero, California, United States
Joined Oct 2004
4,085 Posts
I dunno.

I've heard 'artist' applied to a musician who's playing the same piece of music that a hundred thousand other mucisian's have played. So, the music isn't original, but how it's played may be, so the interpretation and spirit placed into the piece has to count for something.

So, ask yourself these:

"Do I care?" - most true artists rarely cared what anyone else thought of their work, they did it for themselves. Der Kapitan points out that a great kit can be 'destroyed' but what if the creator thinks they did an original interpretation of the kit and they view it as art? Is it?

"Do I have to show it?" - Public review of an artists work is generally something most artists dread and usually do to pay the bills to make more art. Are you in it for the sake of it, for the glory or for the money? None are bad, but most artists have something inside them driving them to do 'art'. Good or bad is subjective.

"How do I take negative criticism?" - Fold up tent and go home? Try to please the critics? Give the critics the big middle finger and get the next thing in your head out onto your chosen media? If it's the latter, you probably have the heart of an artist. If either of the former, you probably aren't.

There are numerous examples of artists old and new that break the concepts I'm getting at so even that is impossible to appropriately define. Art, to me, by definition is impossible to define. It's just something we know when we see or experience.

You know when you're an artist when you suffer like one...
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Old May 27, 2008, 04:16 PM
r/c ships and workboats
bellingham, wa
Joined May 2006
4,529 Posts
Wether it be from a box or scratch built, it takes some sort ofnartist talant to make it look the way one wants. Be it to true scale or some other concauction, as long as you are happy with the creation, then the @##$ with all the others. After all, most of us do this for fun. Not enough $$ in it to be too concerned about it. We are all craftsfolk and magicians. We create an peice of art and the illusion of realism on the water.
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Old May 27, 2008, 06:16 PM
Old wreck in Milwaukee
Prins Willem's Avatar
United States, WI, West Allis
Joined May 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith S
We are all craftsfolk and magicians. We create an peice of art and the illusion of realism on the water.
Amen
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Old May 27, 2008, 06:57 PM
just a modeler
BK 1125's Avatar
LA
Joined May 2008
368 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prins Willem
Amen
Well that about sums it up for me too. Well said. And then there's the scratch builder. I do both. Many here do. And I can draw and paint as well.

But as they say(but not always true with me, I give you modern art. yuck!), "art is in the eye of the beholder".

BK
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Old May 27, 2008, 07:20 PM
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charlie eaton's Avatar
N.E.Mass.
Joined Apr 2007
3,031 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by keith S
Wether it be from a box or scratch built, it takes some sort ofnartist talant to make it look the way one wants. Be it to true scale or some other concauction, as long as you are happy with the creation, then the @##$ with all the others. After all, most of us do this for fun. Not enough $$ in it to be too concerned about it. We are all craftsfolk and magicians. We create an peice of art and the illusion of realism on the water.
Keith may have said it better but I'll stand by what I said, regardless of skill level we create and that is the craftsmanship and the art. Above all is the pleasure of the build and the personal satisfaction that goes with it.
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