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Old May 25, 2008, 12:45 PM
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Reno Nevada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ydevriendt
Let's be logical and turn this thing around : pilots - independant of their nationality - without a valid FAI licence should not be eligible for selection of an FAI event (WAG 2009). Nor should they be allowed to participate in a 2008 WAG selection event, even if it is an AMA sponsored event. This does not make any sense at all. It's a joke.
For ths same reason I cannot use the German Open (if it qualifies) along with the Poway event.
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Old May 25, 2008, 12:48 PM
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Germantown, Maryland
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The USA perspective

It is a simple artifact of history and Geography that the USA has a similar population to Europe but it only counts as one country while Europe counts as many countries. Nobodies fault really, just an artifact of history and geography. There are plusses and minusses to that simple fact though.

When it comes to the FAI/CIAM and international aeromodeling events, we over here must get accustomed to pretty much accepting and getting along with whatever Europe decides is the way to run things. We, with our one vote, have little to say in the matter. We also get to send just three pilots to each world championship event. Any aeromodeler over here is faced with the simple fact that they must be one of the top three to get to a world championship. Most other pilots have an easier time being selected to their national teams simply because of the smaller populations of their countries. If you wish to see this from our perspective, then simply imagine Europe as one country with one CIAM vote and only three Europeans at each world championship event. At the same time imagine the USA as a loose union of 50 countries with 50 CIAM votes and three pilots from each of 50 countries at the world championships. If that sounds horrifying to you, let me try to make you feel better by pointing out that two Europeans would have an easier time getting invited to the WAG F6D contest Does that make you feel better?
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Old May 25, 2008, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard S
Rather than being based on individual countries getting invitations allocated to them, it is based on continents. This means that it is pretty much guarenteed that the USA will get a couple of pilots automatic selection to the WAG's. I guess (although I might be wrong) that Brazil will also get a couple of guys automatically invite, as they are the only country I know of in South America who are very active in handlaunch.

This is great, because the USA and Brazil deserve to have a couple of guys each reprisenting them at what is effectively an FAI International championship event.


I find this an interesting turnabout with respect to the FAI. The domination of FAI by the multi-country "european continent" in the past has gvien 1 vote to the US for FAI input (e.g.rules and events). In this case, a single continent is permitted one pilot, versus multi-country entries.

I can see the frustration of all.
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Old May 25, 2008, 12:58 PM
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I agree with Phil, he posted as I was writing.
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Old May 25, 2008, 01:14 PM
Flying IS the hobby
Upstate, NY
Joined Feb 2002
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... but the USA is not complaining, because we understand Europe is a continent, and similarities in votes could be only coincidence or out of geographical needs and the important here is, the USA will play in a world stage... we have come a long way, we have adopted F3k task for most of our domestic contest, and we have an increasing number of Americans going to the German Open, we can thank Phil B. and a few others for taking a leadership roll here, at every intersection we have taken the ‘right’ turn…

We are notorious for coming up with our own events, ie: American football, NASCAR, Baseball…. And then calling them “world Championships” when no one outside the US participates in them – he, he…

We could have easily taken the F3K rules, modified them, and call our event “The World Cup”, but we didn’t - so, give us some credit

(I got the sillies, I just destroyed my SuperGee...)

but, seriously we have made some good decision in the pass couple of year, making WC more accessible to all pilots here in the US - by virtue of flying F3K tasks - I can't say is the same for the other WC disciplines
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Old May 25, 2008, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard S
In the UK, we can just about guarentee getting one or two pilots selected by doing the following.

Organise 4x NAC events, make cheap EPP models and give them to anyone who is willing to turn up, telling them just to chuck-glide the model in each slot.

Agree that if any one pilot gets a 1st and 2nd place in the first two comp's (which should guarentee enough points to get selected to the WAG's), then they only 'chuck-glide' in the next two NAC's so someone else has the opportunity to score top points too and get their selection process.

I've no problems in doing this
Richard, You're just describing cheating. This is what the Official Observer is there for. Represent the FAI and your National organization and make sure the contest is fair. I am quite sure Jo Holman would not allow nor support such a misconduct.

All contests to date have been fair, I can assure you.

FAI guy
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Old May 25, 2008, 01:50 PM
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On the flip-side, with the USA having a much larger population, you have a much bigger pool of pilots to pick from so stand a better chance of picking a world beating team (just look at the medal results from the olympics)

If we are going for a proportional reprisentation of the number of entrants allowed vs population size... we would see the UK with 1 competitor, usa with 5 and china with 20!!!

However my argument is not a USA vs EU thing. I come from the UK and want to cheer for my country in any international event, in the same way you guys want to support the USA

I was not trying to make this out to be against the USA. More to point out that the way the selection process works in the USA is correct and how it should be... it is just a bit screwy how things work this side of the pond.

If you think of Europe as just one big country... just ask any Englishman who they would cheer for in a USA vs France game Or a Scottish man who they would cheer for in an England vs USA game.... etc etc.
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Old May 25, 2008, 02:14 PM
Flying IS the hobby
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Joined Feb 2002
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I know some times I post in a parallel RCG Universe, where only I can read my own posts…

We know other courtiers are as patriotic as we are (or even more, who knows)… but at times we tend to generalize as anyone else, I have friends from different courtiers in Europe who each can speak more than three languages fluently, I have a hard time keeping track of two, anyone who speaks five languages here ether works for the CIA or is considered “a person of interest” by the authorities… :-)

So, we can sit here and talk about our fundamental difference until the cows come home...
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Old May 25, 2008, 02:27 PM
turn, turn, turn.
Athol, Massachusetts
Joined Oct 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Seid

If the FAI really wanted the USAs best, then the IHLGF and the Polecat would be the 2 USA qualifiers. The top 2 highest placing pilots over both events would go, rather than the format we have- and no separate event needs to be flown- but the objective of ranking pilots would be acheived. In fact- USA pilot-we should do this regardless-take the normalized scores over both events and come up with a national ranking...

.
Yes, I would think that having both contests (deciding who goes to the WC) would be fair.

Just because I don't want to spend the extra money to go to Poway, doesn't mean I wouldn't spend the money to compete in the WC.

Regardless of all that, a national ranking based on the two contests would be cool.....not that it matters, it just sounds like more fun.
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Old May 25, 2008, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkens4
Yes, I would think that having both contests (deciding who goes to the WC) would be fair.

Just because I don't want to spend the extra money to go to Poway, doesn't mean I wouldn't spend the money to compete in the WC.

Regardless of all that, a national ranking based on the two contests would be cool.....not that it matters, it just sounds like more fun.
Following on from this, I noticed while browsing around the Eurotour website (http://www.contest-eurotour.com/) that F3F has a Eurotour event in San Francisco.

It would be exciting if Poway/Polecat could get an entry on the eurotour calendar After all, with the amount of USA competitors visiting european events and getting their name on the Eurotour league, we are all effectively one nation

I think it would increase the attraction of travelling to a USA event for more european competitors AND make it much easier for a USA pilot to get a full scorecard for the euortour league (3 events(?))
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Old May 25, 2008, 02:53 PM
Flying IS the hobby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard S
.....
It would be exciting if Poway/Polecat could get an entry on the eurotour calendar
Well, geedy up - aren't you a celebrity in Euro circles, get us up in the calendar
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Old May 25, 2008, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAI_guy
Richard, You're just describing cheating. This is what the Official Observer is there for. Represent the FAI and your National organization and make sure the contest is fair. I am quite sure Jo Holman would not allow nor support such a misconduct.

All contests to date have been fair, I can assure you.

FAI guy
How can it be cheating? We would run a competition to the exact rules specified. This is all about air-sports promotion, encouraging people to take part in competition isn't it? We are offering an opportunity to those who want to experience hand-launch competition the chance to take part and help the chances of getting a UK pilot invited to the WAGS.

You have said yourself to me that a couple of other countries are making a concerted effort to get several pilots qualified.... this is how they do it... get as many people to fly in a competition as possible. Good on them. I know for sure too, that every nation makes having a fair competition their top priority.

The issue is not with how an individual nation runs their own contests, it is with the structure of the selection process itself which is at issue.

For example, lets say there are 5 pilots in the UK who have ambitions to attend the WAGS, but we cannot gain further support from other pilots to take part because our calendar is so full already. Your reply would be to attend a few international selection contests, but the simple fact is that there is more chance to get selected in nations that are hosting their own NSC's than for those who's only opportunity is to attend international selection events.

For other R/C classes WAG selection process, there is a points weighting for international competitions as opposed to national competitions, but not for hand-launch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeb
Well, geedy up - aren't you a celebrity in Euro circles, get us up in the calendar
I probably post a bit more on this forum than most european pilots, but thats as far as it goes.. the innovation/skill of the pilots and manufacturers in mainland europe + the USA, puts us in the UK to shame!! .... but if there is any discussion about the possibility of the USA getting a eurotour event on the calendar, I would put my hand up in a vote
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Old May 26, 2008, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard S
but if there is any discussion about the possibility of the USA getting a eurotour event on the calendar, I would put my hand up in a vote
Richard,

I think that this is a great idea : a Eurotour F3K competition in the USA. No need to have a discussion. Like Nike says : just do it.

And since Alex is certainly reading this : was meinst Du Alex ein Eurotour in Amerika für 2009 ? Eine Superidee !

After all with that many USA pilots coming to fly competitions in Europe, an American F3K Eurotour competition would only be a fair return.

Yves
Cosmopolitan F3K Flyer
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Old May 26, 2008, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard S
This is all about air-sports promotion, encouraging people to take part in competition isn't it?
No Richard, it is about encouraging the general public (non-modellers) to get acquainted with air sports. Promoting competitions to modellers is a completely different matter
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Old May 26, 2008, 06:01 PM
The Great White
USA, CA, El Cajon
Joined Feb 2005
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IHLGF 2008 and US WAG 2009 Selection Contest information

HLG enthusiasts everywhere,

This is to let you know that we will be posting the Pilot Roster and frequency assignments for the IHLGF 2008 within the next two days on the IHLGF 2008 website:: http://www.torreypinesgulls.org/2008IHLGF.htm. . If your name does not appear on the roster and you believe you have registered, please contact me directly and we will get the matter cleared up.

We also want to let you know that if you are not on the roster and want to participate in this year’s IHLGF (June-7-8), you have until Tuesday, June 3rd to register. You may do this online on our website noted above. In order to make sure we can facilitate your frequency choices, please be sure to select THREE (3) frequencies. We will do our best to give you your first choice but cannot guarantee it. Please register as soon as possible.

Third item, and this is important for anyone planning on flying on the Poway field on Friday afternoon; Due to the F6D contest which is being held on Friday afternoon, the field will be closed on Friday afternoon to any flying except for those registered in the F6D contest. There is no entry fee and the F6D tasks are very similar to two of the F3K tasks you will be flying in the IHLGF, so there really is no reason for you not to register. Consider it a real practice session for the IHLGF. You must register on-line on the USA World Air Games Selection Contest website: http://www.torreypinesgulls.org/USWAG2009SC.htm. All the details of the event are on this site. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me.

By the way all international pilots will be allowed to register to fly on Friday afternoon. You will be flying right along with the US pilots, however we have created a special class for you called the "International Class". Your scores will be normalized against the US pilots however they will not count against the US pilots. Two International pilots will go into the fly-offs with the US pilots, the winner of the two International pilots will be awarded the "International Class" Championship plaque.

Thank you and we look forward to seeing you at the IHLGF and the F6D contest on Friday afternoon.

Ron

Ron Scharck, Co-Chairman
IHLGF 2008 Committee
619-913-4949
scharck@kw.com
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