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Old May 22, 2008, 03:17 PM
Lori, hey, you're home early
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United States, NJ, Trenton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroidrc
I want say again - you know how much the molds cost to make these things? Upwards of $15,000! I can't even imagine how much the molds cost for the Fly Fly (big foamies)
If you aren't charging a decent amount you will never make the money back, and eventually go out of business. After distributor markups the company makes maybe $50 on one of these things - so let's do the math - You have to sell alot of these things to break even just on the mold cost alone. Theres alot involved - don't believe that these companies are making a killing... I know first hand now - after pricing things out for myself.

Let's say the molds and sundry items cost a $20,000 investment for a given model. If they sell them for $100 each then it takes 200 models sold to recoup their initial investment. That's not a lot of models. So that begs the question of how many of a given model are sold? I'd love to know how many EFlite P-47's or P-38's have been sold. Tens of thousands. More perhaps? I wouldn't even venture a guess on how many GWS Spitfires were sold. So is anyone really taking the time and going to the expense of making a mold and a kit intending that his product will only sell a hundred pieces? I don't think so. I care as much about their profit margins as much as they care about my mine.

For me it all goes back to a company like GWS (especially) and also ParkZone and EFlite. None are perfect but they've given most of us the chance to get into an area of the hobby that was sparsely populated. Electric flight was a small percentage of the hobby and now I'd be willing to bet that it's the dominant force in RC especially to newbies which I firmly believe these types of RTF junk electronis ARF's are marketed towards.

Mike

I should note that I'm not in manufacturing so my calulations are napkin math so to speak. I am starting a business so I do know about the cost involved in starting up. Mine will cost roughly 2 1/2 times more than I expected due mostly to time delays (over 2 years) due to government involvement. I don't like beauraucrats.
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Last edited by CarreraGTSCS; May 22, 2008 at 03:22 PM. Reason: adding qualifying statement
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Old May 22, 2008, 03:35 PM
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Upstate NY
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Thos are big companies, its different for the little guy.... if you want to rant against the big companies - well... that could be me someday..
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Old May 22, 2008, 03:38 PM
Flying Fatboy
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Tampa, FL
Joined Apr 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvincent
So I also agree with the tone of this thread. Give us AIRFRAMES ONLY!!! Unlike Hyperdyne, I toss my old/new junk it's not worth using in anything else
Bob,

A year ago I asked Mike Hines at HL to do exactly that. Airframes only, how many airframes only have they offered?

Regards, Bill
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Old May 22, 2008, 03:39 PM
AKA Terry Till
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"Let's say the molds and sundry items cost a $20,000 investment for a given model. If they sell them for $100 each then it takes 200 models sold to recoup their initial investment. That's not a lot of models"
It's more than just the molds, it's paying the employees, paying for heat, power, paying for packaging, the actual foam material.
Think of it this way, the material that makes up a new house/new car/new stereo is only a percentage of the total investment in a product.
ALso, just because you built it, doesn't mean the (modeling) public will buy it. There are a number of nice airplanes that are not big sellers. With those the company may even take a loss.
Like others have said, we really want the airframe; not the electronics.

Terry
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Old May 22, 2008, 03:50 PM
Lori, hey, you're home early
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United States, NJ, Trenton
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metroidrc
Thos are big companies, its different for the little guy.... if you want to rant against the big companies - well... that could be me someday..
I wish you all the success in the world. I mean that sincerely.

Mike

I'm off today and it's raining and windy so I sit here at the keyboard.
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Old May 22, 2008, 03:50 PM
Micro EDF addict
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Upstate NY
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I agree - its a total risk. Especially for the little guys, who knows how many people will buy. If you don't charge enough, you don't make the money back.
I'll have about $65,000 invested and only 500 models to show for it. This includes everything though, advertising, website, molds, electronics, packaging. Its tough - gotta hope they sell otherwise I'm $65,000 in the hole!
That's why I don't think its a bad thing to charge $200.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ex-racr
"Let's say the molds and sundry items cost a $20,000 investment for a given model. If they sell them for $100 each then it takes 200 models sold to recoup their initial investment. That's not a lot of models"
It's more than just the molds, it's paying the employees, paying for heat, power, paying for packaging, the actual foam material.
Think of it this way, the material that makes up a new house/new car/new stereo is only a percentage of the total investment in a product.
ALso, just because you built it, doesn't mean the (modeling) public will buy it. There are a number of nice airplanes that are not big sellers. With those the company may even take a loss.
Like others have said, we really want the airframe; not the electronics.

Terry
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Old May 22, 2008, 03:55 PM
Renegade Fun Forever!!
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But are you modeling a SCALE model
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Old May 22, 2008, 04:02 PM
Micro EDF addict
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Upstate NY
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I wish it was a scale model Then I'd buy the real thing!
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Old May 22, 2008, 04:20 PM
MYC
Inconceivable!
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Earlier in this thread, Darmar made a key point but it seemed to fly over all our heads. I have made dealer inquiries at two chinese manufacturers and they sent me their dealer prices and terms. Without disclosing those details on this forum, it is true that our stateside resellers are MORE THAN DOUBLING the chinese prices! I bought a large jet from a US distributor for $179 only to learn now that he paid $70 to get it!

In fairness they do have pretty substantial order minimums but if they are in business for the long term then having to carry stock shouldn't make that big a difference.

I'm not defending or condeming either side. I just wanted to make sure everyone knows the whole story.

Mark-
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Old May 22, 2008, 04:32 PM
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Plain ole KS
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I have no problem paying $200 for a RTF foam model. I do have a problem paying $200+ for a plane with all the crap electronics in it that no one wants. I dont think thats extremely high priced when all things are considered though, theres more expenses to making a product than just making the product. The business expenses are what kills a company and drives up costs here in the U.S., we can all thank our favorite uncle Sam for that.
In time im sure the manufacturers will realize the RTF junk electric versions arent selling as well as everyone elses ARF versions and the market will correct itself. The consumer is what drives the market, not the mfg's. Just wait, it will happen.
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Old May 22, 2008, 04:41 PM
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Salt Lake City Utah
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I don't think the question of spending 200 bucks, but spending it on 50% crap components. The bad electronics prob. cost the most for them and we just toss it, or it causes the loss of the plane.

A lot of us are tired of the quality. How many bad fan adaptors have we all had from China? Prob. the most critical part for proper operation of a fan and they seem to have the same blind guy drilling them all by hand with his 1935 hand drill using a rusty nail for a bit.

Most of us just want the foam kit so we can put the right components in since we have already spent the time and the money figuring it all out. Or like GWS, sell both. I bet GWS gets few complaints on no-powered kits comp. to the ones with motors and fans included. Seems smart to me, transfer most of the liability onto the buyer since he has to spec. all his gear.

Cheers--Stacker
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Old May 22, 2008, 04:54 PM
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United States, FL, Sebring
Joined Feb 2006
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It's ironic that we're discussing airframes only. I crashed the heck out of my GWS A-10 early this morning. It's been flown to heck and back, this crash was 100% pilot error and one heck of an impact. I was diving into a "canyon", (actually a drainage ditch lol!)
and just didn't quite make it. Foam makes an impressive noise when you stuff it at wide open throttle. The glassing of the fuse worked wonders, it's just getting a little too ragged. She was a blast to fly!

I think it's time to pull another $45 airframe out of the closet and start fresh. I can transfer over all the electronics too.

That's what keeps us coming back for more.
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Old May 22, 2008, 04:56 PM
Lori, hey, you're home early
CarreraGTSCS's Avatar
United States, NJ, Trenton
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Here's something positive regarding the Chinese people for this thread:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080522/.../china_orphans

Mike
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Old May 22, 2008, 05:46 PM
Registered User
Calgary Alberta
Joined Jun 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MYC
I bought a large jet from a US distributor for $179 only to learn now that he paid $70 to get it!

Mark-
The LHS here has a MINIUM 40 % mark up on everything
So he is paying $ 120.00 and selling it to you for $ 200.00
It costs a lot of money to run a retail store.
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Old May 22, 2008, 06:55 PM
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I've never heard of any retail store only marking up 40%. More like 200%. How do you think they can have 1/2 off sales and still make some cash?

I knew a company that was buying product for $20 a piece and selling them for $99 each. I think 4-10x markup is the range you will see. That's a healthy margin that is stuck to the consumer.
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