lavochkin,
I hear ya! Best advise I have is right before you hit the buy botton, stop wait about two weeks, read what somebody ended up with. This is how I'm saving some bucks. I'll still blow it on testing the latest UH fan or motor but at least I pace myself and sift through some of the crap.

Funny, I almost pushed buy on the Art-Tech F18 until saw that pilot!! What does that thing have to do with Art?? or Tech. If they put that in the cockpit, do they care what servo, or speed control goes in? Prob. don't care if the rec. is crap and goes out right after takeoff making the plane fly out of sight right into a school buss. It's just foam. Worth about 60 bucks to this kid if it's good foam.

Right now there are four F4's comming out. So wait and see who has the best and cheapest foam to put good gear in.

Cheers--Stacker

Joe I couldn't agree with you more. First of all how many of us need another tx? Don't think I'm the only one that has a stock of esc's, servos, fans and related electronics that came with a foam kit. There is a pile of junk fans, motors and undefinable servos in the corner of my workshop. We all have a desire for more speed and you can't do that on a cheap motor,fan and 25amp speed controller!
The best deal I have come across to date is the X-Flight A-7. I think it was $110 shipped but the foam was good it will take a 70mm fan and I don't own another pile of electronics to go in the corner. I have purchased many kits direct from China just to get the airframe dispite the junk that comes with it. Getting away from foamy's for a second the composite SAPAC HAWK probably has some of the finest glass work (for the price) I have seen and flies well.
I would really like to see options offered where you don't have to wind up with a plane you just have to gut to get the airframe.

I agree, the first planes I bought were GWS to get the learning curve on the cheep. They were inexpensive and I had great time learning and crashing them into the ground and didn’t feel ripped off. I love to look and read about all the foam planes coming out but the $200 mark for foam doesn’t interest me. I have started building all of mine to save $ and have learned a great deal about do’s and don’ts and have a lot more to say when asked than its an ARF. It still hurts when I crash a scratch but building them beats setting on the couch.

Jeff

Well, how about a maufacterer comment here. I would like to hear from some of the regulars. How about ya Andy. Any comments? Other people are thinking the same thing. I can buy a foam cooler at Walmart for under $5.00.Same amount of foam. Same work to design. Says made in china on the bottom. And I don't want to hear about volume. Sure looks to me like alot of these makers work out of there apartment. I also do not want all the cheap radio crap.Just give us well designed planes and you'll sell a ton of them.
Any body know what kind of numbers we are looking at as far as sales for foam jets?Like how many Alfa F-86s' have been sold on the world market?

Originally Posted by ATIS

Understood...but foam EDF's are getting out of hand and to get any real "jet" perfromance out of them, they all seem to need an upgrade...

I too dislike props on jets but the EDF prices have climbed fast and 4s set ups to get the power are expensive which is why I am moving back to props but going with balsa over foam...

Yep, I have also had enough of high-priced foam that picks up dings and dents from just normal handling and is loaded with junk electrics that I'm already thinking about how I'm going to gut it, cut it, and mod it before I've even bought it...whew!!!

I'm tired of ordering different motors, fans, ESC's, trying to make it all fit and then having it crap out in-flight. Feel like I'm constantly trying to polish a t#rd. I was going to mod my SAPAC F-22, but decided to heck with it. Not gonna pump any more $$$ into mods. I'll just fly it like it is until it's used up.

Like Atis, I've also re-discovered props. My eFlite Extra 260 3D will arrive at the end of the week.

My next foray into EDF's will be away from this foam crap...enough of the bush-leagues. When I'm ready skill and $$$-wise, I'll go with BVM Jets. http://www.bvmjets.com/

There are a lot of neat jet models coming out but I too do not like the all inclusive $200 kits. I want just the airframes, and for a reasonable price. I will tell you the best foamy EDF I got lately is the Electrifly L-39. It is $99 and comes with a brushless motor (Granted the stock power is a little lacking),but just drop a bigger motor in it then you are off to the races. I hope Electrifly comes out with more kits in the near future. I just refuse to shell out $200 for foam anymore, heck I can go buy a HET model for $200! I also have stopped on the Alfas as well. Unless it is a killer deal no more eggshell thin Alfa models for me either.

Don

After going through the process of pricing out everything for the receiver ready kits I'm making, I completely understand the $200 price tag for these foam jets, especially RTF and receiver ready! What I don't understand is how Alfa can charge such high prices for their ARF kits that do not include motors, servos, ESCs, batteries, or anything else. Yes I love em too, but they are very fragile. I'm gonna have to end up charging $250 for mine otherwise I'm not even making enough money to order more after the first batch is sold! Mine aren't exactly foamy(and are practically indestructable) but its still the same concept. You gotta keep in mind the cost of the mold to make these things is upwards of $15,000! Add in that cost, and all of the components, decals, packaging, shipping, everything - believe me - it adds up!
Unless you are producing things for walmart at 250,000 pieces, your not gonna be able to do it for that cheap!

Originally Posted by The Don

...heck I can go buy a HET model for $200!... Don

That's one of the things that got me thinking about this. I saw the composite HET F-104 for a lot less than the Gripen and the Mig-29.

I've been searching for what happens to the profit from foreign purchases of Chinese products but I haven't found anything yet. I really want to know where my dollars go and who gets it. For the longest time when shopping I'd put a product back on the shelf if it was made in China. Now it's almost impossible to find anything that isn't made in China. I can't stand thinking that my dollars are going to support a cruel and un-Democratic government that is one of the worst human rights abusers in the world. Some of you may have read my frequent rails against the Chinese government here on these boards but I see it as wholly unpatriotic (even though both the Clinton and Bush administrations support economic partnerships with China) to allow China to overtake the US as a superpower. China partially controls the value of the US Dollar in that China's Central Bank had something like 70% of it's foreign investments in US Treasuries. That's about $900Billion (as of 2007). Some of these figures are from FY2006 but China was getting around $4Billion a month as a return on it's US investment. China has around $3Trillion saved. How much does the US have in the bank? What's our budget deficit and trade deficit with China? China is the creditor and the US has become the debtor. China can crash the US economy in the blink of an eye just by dumping their US Treasuries. That would cause the devaluation of the dollar and the possible collapse of our economy yet that's the very reason they won't do that: We're a huge market for their goods.

China can do to the US what America did to the Soviet Union under Ronald Reagan. RR outspent the USSR. Our economy was in no way linked to that of the USSR so he could destroy it without consequence. (Turned out that we really needed to help them more in the power and influence vacuum that occuerred after the fall of the wall. Now we have the king of the KGB as the puppet master there but that's for another thread! Scares the hell out of me.) I was a dopey college kid when RR was in the White House so I didn't really appreciate what he did for you and for me. I'm not an economist and I barely understand most of what I read on the subject but you don't need a degree to figure out what's happening here. We're being ripped off.

Man, I do go on! I'm not this boring in person. Really.

I propose to personally boycott these overpriced beer coolers.

Mike

Originally Posted by The Don

There are a lot of neat jet models coming out but I too do not like the all inclusive $200 kits. I want just the airframes, and for a reasonable price. I will tell you the best foamy EDF I got lately is the Electrifly L-39. It is $99 and comes with a brushless motor (Granted the stock power is a little lacking),but just drop a bigger motor in it then you are off to the races. I hope Electrifly comes out with more kits in the near future. I just refuse to shell out $200 for foam anymore, heck I can go buy a HET model for $200! I also have stopped on the Alfas as well. Unless it is a killer deal no more eggshell thin Alfa models for me either.

Don

I agree 100%

Especially on the Alfa's... one bad handlaunch and their toast!!!

I hear ya! I'd love to start seeing real american munufacturers pop up. Not distributors in america selling chinese junk! We need some pride here. Th U.S. is moving everything outside of the u.s. Meaning the rich get richer and poor, poorer. Walmart doesnt help! A big no-no is buying from them. Watch that walmart movie and you will know what I'm talking about. The thing is making stuff here that won't cost two testicles and a rolex watch to buy. I love how are country went to crap! It sucks. I still dont see how business owners move things like jobs overseas and pay chinese people like seven cents a day and call themselves a proud American! They should be ashamed!!!!!!!!!! I am for them! I would like to get our country back. And make it great again. Starting with getting our gas problem worked out. These companies are jacking their prices up cause of fuel. Well how much is legitament and how much is being gouged? We are now a service country. I am huge on buying american or german. Basically any country thats not communist's. We need to speak up and let these rc manufacturers know how we all feel. When I found out the sapac gripen is gonna be 230 I almost threw up in my mouth! Someone is smoking some crack. I for one will not pay that much. There composite t-45 is well worth the price. But foam is not. For 230 it should come with a mega or het motor and a "real fan"! I'll stick with the het jets amongst aeronaut,tamjets,bvm etc... Plus you gotta really think about foam itself. You belly land and bang, all the paint gets scraped off and it gets dented up and real ugly real fast! Nothing against Chinese people. Its not the people's fault their government sucks eggs!

Our gasoline here is $10 USD a gallon..you think you got it bad, rip off Britain is still number one in the fleecing stakes!

I'm in.

Head over healed into the hobby on a foam bit kit. Found out quick how terribly imperceptible the 'perceived value' is.

I've resorted to initiate research into more suitable materials, for which I will scratch build, and mold my own original models, then forever home manufacture.

Balsa wood is the only other (non-scifi) material out there, that has any merit able qualities, at the same weight class. But is a long term build project, with too high a degree of fragility in my eyes. To be worth working with over the long haul.

So, I'm conceding [lighter than farts], in favor of durability, and recyclability|Reclaimability of the basic material.

Also gaining many other desirable qualities like field reparability, finish ability, safety by ablation (meaning intended 'break-away' in case of hard impact.) etc... etc..

Approaching this hobby from this angle requires greater initial investment in time, money, and tools. Though the initial investment becomes a foundational one from which a nearly endless number of far less expensive replications and replacements airframes will emerge into the future.

And, I'll be able to stamp 'em 'Made in the U.S.A'

Very interesting thread. I'm on a very limited budget, and it would take me 6 months to save up for a "Receiver Ready Jet" But, for the same price I can buy a couple of cases of Depron from RCfoam, and build 10 to 15 of Steve Shumates Parkjets. CarreraGTSCS is right on the money. The Dollar has been devalued so much, it's almost worthless in foreign markets. Don't expect things to get better anytime soon, the last hope we had was to vote in Ron Paul, and try to salvage ourselves, but that's not going to happen.

Originally Posted by Matt Halton

Our gasoline here is $10 USD a gallon..you think you got it bad, rip off Britain is still number one in the fleecing stakes!

Yeah...but thats like 2 Euro's....

Well I'll say this. My products are being manufactured right here in the USA, but the power systems are coming from China. I haven't been able to find a USA manufacturer for motors/esc's that wouldn't blow my budget by over 50%.
At least the molds and assembly is here!