HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old May 17, 2008, 04:17 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2008
13 Posts
Discussion
Anyone know where to buy a Scale B-24 Liberator kit?

I'm an intermediate modeler (I cant make my own electronics, parts, or molds is how I define that), & I wanted to build a Scale B-24 Liberator to honor my late father who loved them & worked on them.

I cant find a kit for one of these to save my life!!! I've searched these forums but I can't find one that links to a retailer.

There's 2 that are out there, but they are either RTF versions or very small & cheezy looking models.

I was looking to put 6 months to one year of work into this and was looking for something in the 6 foot wing span range, flaps, retracts, etc. You guys have any links or suggetions?

*It would have to be a kit, I am not adept enough to work from just a plan alone.
Caveman5150 is offline Find More Posts by Caveman5150
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old May 17, 2008, 05:13 PM
Registered User
Beaumont tx
Joined Oct 2004
3,740 Posts
I assume you want a flying version? Plans were published in the past few years -- either model Aviation or Model Airplane News. There's a Guillow version, smaller than you want, but accurate outlines; it does fly with a little care. Probably 2 engines electric, I would guess. You can use it as a basis and scale it up, which would give you a much more stable and easy-to-fly model. It would also handle the details you mention.


There's also a 1/48 Fiddlersgreen paper model in several versions, including the Strawberry Bitch.

If you are a kit builder, there's no reason you can't build from plans. The only difference is that YOU cut out the parts; any plans worth the name has patterns included. Xerox them, glue-stick onto the appropriate size wood, and cut out with knife or jig-saw; Delta has a good one for around $100.

What _I_ would do is start with the Guillow kit. Double the plans and die cut sheets 200%, cut them out, and you have a kit. Sheet the wings and fuselage with 3/32 sheet. I think I'd increase the chord of the wings a little -- 10% wouldn't mess up the appearance much and would give you a whole lot of stability wrt tip-stalls. You'd have to get somebody else (besides me) to help with power systems -- I think I'd electric power it for simplicity. I wouldn't go brushless (waay too costly), but good brushed motors should work well.

Finally, my profound respects and admiration to your father for his service, and to you for having what was clearly a good relationship with him. I wish you the best in carrying out your mission regarding the plane. Let me know if I can help -- I am full of free advice which is worth what it costs you.

howell
gwinhh is offline Find More Posts by gwinhh
Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2008, 05:46 PM
Registered User
New Caney TX.
Joined Mar 2002
343 Posts
Caveman, I have a Stafford kit in the barn. 96" wingspan and a real BUILDER's job.
I could be moved to sell it however the price will be high. OTOH I could possibly make a set of plans for you, and you could send them to a Kit-Cutter.
For the plans, just however much Kinko charges for them plus some postage.

Horrace Cain
New Caney, TX.
Hossfly is offline Find More Posts by Hossfly
Reply With Quote
Old May 17, 2008, 09:14 PM
Registered User
kahloq's Avatar
Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Joined Dec 2005
7,821 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwinhh
You'd have to get somebody else (besides me) to help with power systems -- I think I'd electric power it for simplicity. I wouldn't go brushless (waay too costly), but good brushed motors should work well.

howell
Id have to highly disagree with brushless motors being too costly. On a plane thats 6 feet wingspan, using brushed motors wouldnt save you much because you'd have to have one VERY big high amp speed control for all 4 motors, or two decent med sized one if you ran each to two motors.
I built an 80" B-17 with 4 brushless motors. The esc's were not expensive at all(like $23 each) because I didnt need any bec's since I am using a separate rx battery.
The other benefit of brushless besides more power for the weight and batteries carried is that they can spin much bigger props(or multi-blade props) since they have a lot more torque as compared to brushed motors.

If someone wanted to go glow on a b-24 this size, then small .30 - .40 size 4 strokes would be perfect. The 80" B-17 I built was originally designed for .15-.25 2 strokes. Myself, I dont like the sound of 2 strokes, especially for a bomber. It would be about the same cost to put 4 x .40 size 4 strokes in it as it would be to outfit it with brushless motors including buying 6 good 2200 size lipos.

Quick rundown on cost:
electric outrunner(from hobbycity) $25 each x 4
http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=2139
esc $23 each x 4
http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id...2&pid=B2049176
total: $192
Lipo batts or large Nimh batts can be used.
In my B-17, I have 6 x 2200 3s batteries running all 4 motors. I could have used high voltage nimhs or nicads, but I already had the lipos.

Compare this to brushed motors. In order to spin a large enough prop, you'd have to use Speed 700 size if direct drive, or additonal cost for quality gearboxes and a speed 500 size.
Speed 700 direct drive can spin a 10x6
cost $29 ea x 4:
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/speed700.htm
speed contoller for all 4: good luck finding a brushed speed controller that can handle 120+ amps as each motor is rated at 31.
So, you'd have to get 2 x 60 amp or 4 x 35 amp and poof...your costs are way higher then a brushless since a lot of palces dont make or carry large brushed speed controlers anymore.
35 amp CC brushed speed controller cost $49. Twice that of the esc's I lsited above and teh same exact price as an e-flite 40 amp esc.
GWS 30 amp brushed is $25. Same basic price as the brushless esc listed above. So, no savings here either.

Now compare all that to a glow setup using 4 x saito 40's:
saito FA40 $194 x 4:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...rodID=SAIE040A
onboard glow unit to run all 4: $159
http://sonictronics.com/xcart/produc...cat=422&page=1
total: 784 without the onboard glow/ with : 939
kahloq is offline Find More Posts by kahloq
Reply With Quote
Old May 18, 2008, 04:14 AM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2008
13 Posts
I could handle that if I knew a kit cutter in my area. I'm pretty sure me with a jig saw will result in several amputated fingers & uncontrolled bleeding. I've never done a model of this depth before so I'm unsure of my local resources. Most folks in SoCal fly foamies or Aerobatic planes that go fast, nothing super-exotic.

PM me with what you want for the kit (I assume totally unbuilt so far) & we'll see if we are thinkin alonjg the same lines in price. At any rate, the plans will still be awesome. thankl you so much. 96" will be just fine.

Definately going brushless with Lipos, already got a ton of em. Didn't know you could do 2 engines to one ESC. That I need a diagram for.

Thanks gang!
Caveman5150 is offline Find More Posts by Caveman5150
Last edited by Caveman5150; May 18, 2008 at 04:21 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old May 18, 2008, 11:03 AM
Registered User
kahloq's Avatar
Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Joined Dec 2005
7,821 Posts
Caveman, you may have mis-understood. The 2 motors to 1 esc was in relation to brushed motors, not brushless. There is ONE company that offers a brushless esc that has two set of motor leads, but they are hard to find, not well proven, etc. Might be able to find them on ebay...I did a quick search, and there was over 700 esc's on ebay and didnt feel like combing through all of them to see if there was one of them on there. I dont think I'd trust that on a plane this size though, especially when esc's arent that expensive anymore.
kahloq is offline Find More Posts by kahloq
Reply With Quote
Old May 18, 2008, 04:32 PM
Registered User
Beaumont tx
Joined Oct 2004
3,740 Posts
kahloq, I stand corrected. Thanks for the very simple and direct explanation.

Caveman, we shall expect a build thread, or, if you go with electric, a cross reference. Good luck. By the way, kit-cutters often advertise here or in model magazines.

howell
gwinhh is offline Find More Posts by gwinhh
Reply With Quote
Old May 19, 2008, 11:07 AM
Registered User
New Caney TX.
Joined Mar 2002
343 Posts
Caveman, yesterday late, I sent to you a PM. If anyone else here, wants more info on the Stafford B-24 kit then you are welcome to ask Caveman providing he cares to share what I said.

Thanks.
Hossfly is offline Find More Posts by Hossfly
Reply With Quote
Old May 19, 2008, 11:13 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2008
13 Posts
Yeah I think we got a deal Hoss my man! PM sent (I think).

I will definately start a build thread on this boys, gonna need your help on this one (like I said, I'm a relative noob thats just very dedicated). This will also be my:

1st Multi-Engine Aircraft
1st Scale Aircraft
1st Huge Aircraft (My biggest to date is an AT-6 texan with 4.5 foot span) This will be an 8ft wingspan!
1st Kit from virtual-scratch build with plans.


The only thing I'm really a stickler about is the powerplant. I really have to insist on Electric, which I guess puts this into a Electric Warbirds thread.
Maybe you can talk me out of this with new education & technology, but:

(1) I am on a budget and 4 gas engines I think will exceed that, as pointed out in previous posts

(2)I am totally unfamiliar with gas engines of all types and have built/flown exclusively electric.

(3)I'm also concerned about starting a wildfire if I crash. I live in San Diego, CA which has been totally devastated by 2 recent fires in the last 5 years; lots of dry brush absolutely everywhere & I don't wanna be the cause of "Firestorm 2008".

(4) An electric crash is usually repairable. A gas crash may cause fire & up goes a whole year or more of work in a fireball. Goodbye electronics, servos, all wood frame, retracts, scale details, etc .

Will get back with you guys. Hoss has made my day!
Caveman5150 is offline Find More Posts by Caveman5150
Last edited by Caveman5150; May 20, 2008 at 03:16 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old May 20, 2008, 12:29 AM
Registered User
kahloq's Avatar
Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Joined Dec 2005
7,821 Posts
glow fuel will NOT ignite in a crash. There are no actual gasoline motors small enough for this project. Saito 40's are 4-stroke glow fuel motors, so you wouldnt have any chance of a fire. Glow fuel kinda acts like diesel fuel. It requires a lot of heat to burn, but if the glow plug goes cold even for a few sec's, the motor stops running and the fuel is basically inert.

That being said, it will be a lot easier to build this plane using electrics.
Now, since your looking at a plane in the 6 foot wingspan size(about 72 inches), Power 10's would work very well for you, however, I might suggest using Power 15's(or equivalent) simply because they can be run on 4s lipo just in case you need the additonal oomph. My 80" B-17 is 14 pounds with batteries and the 4 motors are putting out a combine 1100-1200 watts. So, Im at roughly 80-85 watts per pound. Should be more then enough for scale flight, but not a whole bunch extra.
The hobbycity motors I linked in previous post can be run on 4s. I dont know what the plans call for regarding spacing of the engine nacelles, but you'll need to watch this simply because you dont want props hitting eachother. You may not be able to use 9x7x3 size props like i did on the B-17. You might only be able to fit 8x6x3's if its a 72" wingspan plane. Just as a note, there is a guy that built a 72" EAM.net B-17 and used 4 e-flite park 480's if I remember right. He used varioprops I think in the 7" diameter range. Of course, his weight was only like 8 pounds total, so if your plane is projected to weigh less then 10 pounds, you could use Park 480's just fine on 3s.
kahloq is offline Find More Posts by kahloq
Reply With Quote
Old May 20, 2008, 12:44 AM
Registered User
KentuckyColonel's Avatar
Mission Viejo, CA
Joined Dec 2005
1,925 Posts
I just bought a WWII photo on e-bay of a GI in front of a B-24, the "Nip Nipper" from the CBI area of operations. All that was visible in the photo was the nose area, shooting up toward the cockpit with a partial name, "NIP N...." visible. The seller identified the aircraft in the listing as a Flying Tiger P-40. Obviously incorrect, so I let her know the type of plane and then began to try and find anything on the plane, if I could. The internet is an awesome tool in research and I was finally able to ID the plane. After all that work, okay, ten minutes work, I had to have the photo, so I bid on it, and won. Now, I need to find a B-24 so I can turn her into the "NIP NIPPER", B-24 D-1 serial# 42-40391. This is not the photo I bought, but a link to one I found. My photo is on the other side and in color.
I want to go with Glow Fuel, despite the pain in the butt my P-38 is becoming, I still want to hear those four engines running.....
KentuckyColonel is offline Find More Posts by KentuckyColonel
Reply With Quote
Old May 20, 2008, 04:12 AM
Registered User
kahloq's Avatar
Fort Collins, Colorado, USA
Joined Dec 2005
7,821 Posts
Glow 4-stroke motors sure will sound really grand all running together. You might wish to consider using a JR matchbox for the throttle servos in that case KC. You can set each one independant for endpoints, etc while still using only one channel(throttle) on the TX. You'll never get 4 fuel motors synced close enough in RPM's manually by linkage alone, so a matchbox would really help.

Hopefully this wont happen to either of your projects:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht47moLUGlc

But if they turn out like this one.....
My original RC B-24 video (2 min 34 sec)
kahloq is offline Find More Posts by kahloq
Reply With Quote
Old May 20, 2008, 06:37 PM
Registered User
Joined Apr 2008
13 Posts
That 1st one makes me want to cry. That just hurts on a level only a person who put 2 years into their plane can understand. I have RealFlight G4 with a hugge B-24 on it, goonna spec it to the plane I'm building & fly the crap out of it in the sim before my first flight.

Hey hoss I sent ya two PMs, did yhey not go through? I'll take that kit from ya! Jut PM me
Caveman5150 is offline Find More Posts by Caveman5150
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2008, 03:25 PM
CO of The Flying Circus
The Blue Max's Avatar
wind and rain,Oregon
Joined Jul 2002
1,519 Posts
The second video was very cool. I liked the way you could see from the various different crew locations! Awesome!
The Blue Max is offline Find More Posts by The Blue Max
Reply With Quote
Old May 21, 2008, 05:11 PM
Registered User
KentuckyColonel's Avatar
Mission Viejo, CA
Joined Dec 2005
1,925 Posts
Man.......I have to agree that first one was enough to make me want to throw up! Although it sure sounded cool as it lifted off.
KentuckyColonel is offline Find More Posts by KentuckyColonel
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Does anyone know where to buy a ACT BAT? Jeff85 Flying Wings 8 Jul 06, 2005 11:43 PM
Yippee! Riva Sensor anyone know where to buy one???? IBbob31 Electric Sailplanes 7 May 09, 2005 02:53 PM
Anyone Know Where To Buy A Small 22Pin Socket For Camera Mod? Randy Due Aerial Photography 21 Feb 22, 2004 11:26 PM
Nomex - Anyone know where to buy? John Webb Electric Plane Talk 11 Aug 07, 2003 04:31 PM
Anyone know where to buy the "Rake" kit? Danny Troy Scratchbuilt Indoor and Micro Models 2 Jul 23, 2002 05:48 AM