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Old Aug 23, 2008, 11:20 PM
plane-air=ground
USA, TX, Ingleside
Joined Oct 2007
366 Posts
sorry to see your plane like that.it looks like the rods should be longer.i have a balsa trainer and it just has dowel rod but it is alot longer sticking out.just to be safe i checked my super cub and they are tight.it is hard to tell from a picture but the rods on the supercub do not stick out any farther than the apprentice.i think i will put some glue on them to be safe.i thought the engine was an eflite 15 but from the pics it isnt one.thanks for sharing.corky
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 10:52 AM
Keep Flying
Swedesboro NJ
Joined May 2008
720 Posts
Appenrice

Hey David [Horizon]any comments on what happened to my plane,i will be calling horizon tomorrow

Ron
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 12:52 PM
Foaming at the mouth..
darksiede's Avatar
USA, KS, Topeka
Joined Jul 2008
924 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Art
Thankx, gwh. I just could'nt wait for the DX5e/AR500 Combo to arrive. Had to prove once and for all that my LP5DSM2 transmitter was "full range" with an AR6200....It Is!!! OK, it cost me $80.00 for the Rx but now I have 200 yards - 200 meters range. The gray area being the 66 feet in between. Also, little known is that this TX has 6 channels, all reversable, plus 3 mixing and 1 heli/Ac channel. There is also a built-in charger (Caution, CENTER PIN is NEG.). While the 300 feet "park range" is enough in most cases, this old fart finds the extra range helpful contending with fickle Montana winds.
I have a LP5dsm & AR6200, and while yes it does have mixing, the mixing for elevons, v-tail and ccpm is not fully functional.. reversing works nicely however..

Just be warned if you plan on making an elevon or v-tail foamy, or installing in an rtf with these surfaces that the end results will not please you.

~Kev
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 01:41 PM
Horizon Hobby Employee
Mahomet, Illinois
Joined Aug 2007
2,237 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopy3440
Hey David [Horizon]any comments on what happened to my plane,i will be calling horizon tomorrow

Ron
Gotta say my heart sank for you when I saw your post. That's not the kind of experience we want people to have! Absolutely call product support tomorrow and get a replacement. I don't think at the moment we're carrying fuselages only with all the electronics installed, I think the fuselage replacement part is only a bare fuselage. You'll probably end up with a whole new RTF package.

Monday I'll let the factory know about this and make sure the caps are secured in future production runs.

Now a couple of troubleshooting questions: did you cross any of the rubber bands from one side of the fuselage to the other, or did you only run them fore and aft? How about those loops you were doing at altitude. Is it possible you were pulling some serious g's but didn't realize it because it was so high? What about during the rest of the flight. Did you do any other aerobatics? It really just sounds like the extra g's of the loops were the last straw that pulled the caps off the tips of the rods.

From looking at the photos, you might actually try piecing the fuselage back together again using some medium CA and accelerator. Of course you'll need a new cowl and motor mount, but the break in the aft fuselage should go back together well. The tough part I think would be the compression failures in the fuselage sides at the wing saddle. I'm not suggesting this as a substitute for a new fuselage, but it might be interesting to see how far you can bring it back.

David Eichstedt
Horizon Hobby
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 04:16 PM
Keep Flying
Swedesboro NJ
Joined May 2008
720 Posts
Apprentice

Hey David,thanks for the response

----You'll probably end up with a whole new RTF package.
Thank you thats what i wanted to hear

----did you cross any of the rubber bands from one side of the fuselage to the other, or did you only run them fore and aft

I ran them per directions,i actually read the directions,i ran first 2 criss cross next 2 front to back and if i remember the directions said repeat steps 8 and 9 which was to criss cross the next 2 and the last 2 front to back,

----Is it possible you were pulling some serious g's but didn't realize it because it was so high

I was running on low rates the whole flight i was doing some takeoff and landings i did three landings and was just circling and then took it up for at look at it with some altitude,the winds were 5-8 mph,maybe they were more at altitude but i did not notice i was doing some big loops ,do my loops look perfectly round like someone flying competitions i don't think so,they might have been tighter in some spots bigger in other but no sport flying it was just a casual first flight no aileron rolls nothing extreme.and that was the end of the flight,on one of my post i said when i went and looked at the fuselage the day after the crash i checked the 2 remaining caps the one i could not budge but with a little pressure the other side did come off and there was no glue holding this one so i assume from the pressure of the bands and the loops this is all it took to pop the front 2 if they were loose.

---From looking at the photos, you might actually try piecing the fuselage back together again using some medium CA and accelerator. Of course you'll need a new cowl and motor mount, but the break in the aft fuselage should go back together well. The tough part I think would be the compression failures in the fuselage sides at the wing saddle. I'm not suggesting this as a substitute for a new fuselage, but it might be interesting to see how far you can bring it back;

I thing its just compressed to much your right if the aft was the only thing it would not be bad but it has a big wave look to the whole fuselage and i just do not have the time to play with this now,you were right about the firewall its as tough as nails this thing was a lawn dart and it did not put a dent in it.

thanks for your reply i am looking forward to flying this with my son,that was the only bad thing bout this expierance my son was so excited to get this and was there when ups dropped it off ,we were going to go out on the weekend and fly it but it was a t28 weekend instead.

Thanks Ron
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 05:00 PM
Registered User
Lake City, PA USA
Joined Sep 1999
326 Posts
Hi Guys,

Sorry to hear about your Apprentice Snoopy.

Just checked my wing dowels and they dont budge at all, so there seems to be lots of glue. I was a bit suprised by the sequence of rubber bands as the conventional wisdom is that all the bands should go front to back with only the final 2 cris crossed to hold the others on. Since HH went to all the trouble to spell out how these were to go I did as they instructed and have not had a problem, knock on wood...

Flew 6 more flights last night. Like it more and more each time I fly it. I did cut down the throws though. I moved each rod in one hole on the servo for all the flight controls. Now high rate is fine for me and low is great for training.

The motor is not an actual E-Flite catalog motor but instead appears to be a larger version of what is in the T-28. Works great though so I do not care. As for reducing the all up weight, I am not sure why you would want to do that since it flies great as is.

Finally, for Dave, I note that the parts list does not include replacement rubber bands. Are these available? My LHS did not have anything even remotely like this size.

Gene
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Old Aug 24, 2008, 07:43 PM
Giddy up!
Sal C's Avatar
Woodridge, Illinois
Joined May 2000
4,478 Posts
David,

First I must say thanks for chiming back in and especially on a weekend. What I've seen on these forums in the past when a customer had a potential product/design problem (and it was clear as day) and the selling party was posting along hyping it up, you'd see them mysteriously disappear.

Taking care of things like this issue for Ron and continuing to do the right thing when this kind of stuff happens is what will make me a customer for life. I have to say I'm pretty impressed with Horizon Hobby for such a big organization, you don't usually see that in the biggies. Not that I don't like Tower but everytime I've had a problem I have to complain very loud to get them to do something about it, in fairness they usually do but I shouldn't have to complain or threaten to take my business elsewhere...

Thanks...
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Old Aug 25, 2008, 05:13 PM
Registered User
Joined May 2008
9 Posts
Thanks Kev; Was aware of dip #s 2,3 and 4 problem. Trying to sort it out...Later...art
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Old Aug 25, 2008, 10:08 PM
Horizon Hobby Employee
Mahomet, Illinois
Joined Aug 2007
2,237 Posts
Doesn't look like we have the rubber bands in the system at this point. I'll get a developer on it.

John Redman did some testing today and found that regular thin CA does a great job of gluing the caps to the plastic rods. We'll get a bulletin up tomorrow. Needed to check this stuff out since not all plastic takes CA well.

We're hitting our factory hard on this one. That silicone glue is just not the right stuff for this particular job.

David
Horizon
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Old Aug 26, 2008, 07:34 AM
Love to be in the Air
Virginia, USA
Joined Aug 2006
54 Posts
Go to an office store and get #64 rubber bands.. same thing.. and cheaper. No offense to Horizon Hobby.. they get all my money... cept for rubber bands
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Old Aug 26, 2008, 08:02 AM
Horizon Hobby Employee
Mahomet, Illinois
Joined Aug 2007
2,237 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by schmots
Go to an office store and get #64 rubber bands.. same thing.. and cheaper. No offense to Horizon Hobby.. they get all my money... cept for rubber bands
The traditional #64 rubber bands can probably be used, but the rubber bands included with the Apprentice are different. They're probably about three times the length of a #64.

David Eichstedt
Horizon
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Old Aug 26, 2008, 08:02 AM
Registered User
Lake City, PA USA
Joined Sep 1999
326 Posts
Schmots,

Do you have an Apprentice? Just wondered because the rubber bands with mine are more than twice the size of a 64 so they wont work. I went to an office supply store as well thinking they might have larger ones but they did not.

In a pinch you could probably put two 64's together to make them longer but they dont hold as well as they are a bit longer...

Much easier if Horizon simply sells a bag of them for a couple of dollars.

Gene
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Old Aug 26, 2008, 12:12 PM
Love to be in the Air
Virginia, USA
Joined Aug 2006
54 Posts
I am sorry for talking out of turn then. I wasn't aware of the extreme depth of the apprentice wing.. though that would make it even more stable. As for the rest of my statement its true... I love shopping at HH.. fast shipping (ordered stuff to build a glow trainer this weekend, it will be here tomorrow) and a great website with videos and everything. When I pass my trainers stage I am gonna build a hanger 9 pulse that I will buy all my parts from HH
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Old Aug 26, 2008, 12:16 PM
Love to be in the Air
Virginia, USA
Joined Aug 2006
54 Posts
Oh one more thing.. will there be a plug-n-play or a bind-n-fly version of this plane sold?
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Old Aug 26, 2008, 12:30 PM
Registered User
Lake City, PA USA
Joined Sep 1999
326 Posts
No problem, I just wanted to be sure folks did not simply go out and buy a box of 64's then have them either not work or force them on...

>>I wasn't aware of the extreme depth of the apprentice wing.. though that would make it even more stable. <<

This is what makes the plane really nice. It has a very wide flight envelope and does not feel like it "lumbers" at all in the air. I have about 30 flights on mine and like it more each time I fly it. I had it and it's brother the T34 out last night and flew till dark...Which is 8:15 so I know summer is coming to an end...

And my Corsair isn't even here yet!


Gene
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