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Old May 10, 2011, 08:46 PM
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hope it all works out for you HH usually takes well care of their people who buy their products
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Old May 10, 2011, 08:54 PM
Yes, I know it's upside down.
Sydney, Australia
Joined Dec 2008
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Originally Posted by FTA_FTW View Post
Yup, have the Ar500. I am so upset, I just got this plane two weeks ago and was flying so well :@.

I don't think its repairable... I mean it probably wont fly the same at all.
FTA_FTW,

That is definitely repairable. If it was a cheap Hobby King plane, you might not bother, but given the cost of the Apprentice, I would be repairing it. It won't look as pretty on the ground, but in the air it will be barely noticable.

Take your time to get everything reasonably straight and it will fly just fine. It is a very forgiving design.
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Old May 10, 2011, 09:25 PM
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FTA_FTW

My apprentice crashed under similar circumstances to yours. I had the AR500. I lost complete control from close range, went over to the wreck and had no control until I turned the radio off and back on. Battery was charged and connected, it's nothing dumb like that. So anyway horizon wasn't very helpful to me but my friend chaos2984 helped me out and I was able to send the motor back and get the new metal one for free (with copy of receipt) and I also shipped the DX5e and AR500 back for them to check and they said they couldn't find a problem with it but replaced the AR500 with a brand new retail package AR600. I was pretty pleased with that.

My fuselage completely separated in the back. I also had some wing damage. I fixed both with some epoxy and the plane flies just like it when it was new.

I had to replace the cowl, spinner, prop, firewall, motor mount at my cost but oh well it happens I guess.

What I fear is that the AR500 wasn't the problem. I had about 10 flights on my apprentice before it went down. I now have the AR600 and have about 10 flights with it with no issues. I fear that like Sandhog, it could be a servo or something but I just don't know. They all seem to work fine with no signs that something is wrong.
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Old May 11, 2011, 03:17 PM
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Mikedoo3 -

If it was a failure due to a faulty servo (like mine) you know it by now. When my servo went bad, it WENT BAD. No glitching, no "working, not working" on/off like that. It simply ceased to work. That was how I knew it was the servo and not anything else. When I unplugged that servo, everything instantly worked; when I plugged it back in, everything instantly went dead.

However, if you're worried about the rest of the electronics, just replace them with proper brand name equipment. When my aileron servo went bad, I replaced it (and the one on the other wing to keep it balanced) with JR MN48 servos that I had on hand. Much more powerful, but yes, bigger, so I had to carve out a larger pocket for the servos to fit in. Micro servos would probably fit better than mini servos. However, the big Eflite 7150 rudder servo, and the Eflite elevator servo, are the original ones that I got with my Apprentice, and they're still working fine. My motor is now a Hacker A30-10XL with an Eflite 40 Amp Pro ESC. My original plastic motor died after a head-on collision with 55-gallon drum trash can at my local park. A couple of the magnets came loose from the bell.

Anyway, better electronics may ease some of your worries.
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Old May 11, 2011, 05:32 PM
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What brand Of servos do u Perfer
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Old May 11, 2011, 07:08 PM
Yes, I know it's upside down.
Sydney, Australia
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I'm using Hitec HS81 in my ailerons.
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Old May 11, 2011, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by chaos2984 View Post
What brand Of servos do u Perfer
I like Hitec brand servos; at my LHS they're somewhat cheaper than the Futaba or Airtronics servos, but still really good. I haven't had a bad one yet.

http://www.hitecrcd.com/products/ana...ini/index.html

Given most of the Eflite airplanes I have (.25 to .32 size), the mini-sized HS-225MG metal gear servo is the one I like best. Great power for its size, good speed, and metal gears for durability.

I've also used HS-85MG (Micro class)
and HS-65MG, and HS-65HB servos (Feather class)

Futaba and Airtronics are great, but usually pricier.
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Old May 12, 2011, 08:57 PM
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Finally got to maiden my apprentice tonight

I have almost exclusively been flying ultra micros till now. My first two flights were on buddy box with a parkzone t28 and have flown my wildcat two or three times before. Anyway, I was amazed how good it made me look. This thing is about like flying an ember. It was slightly slower than I thought it might be and didn't roll very well at all, but that's all I tried. Several take offs and landings off grass field and outside of cutting grass with it on take off, no problems at all. My first landings with wheels and exceeded my abilities for sure - it just greased in smooth and slow.
But now the questions start. Wrong I know, but I had not checked cg, but it seemed to take a lot of down trim to level it out. I need to put the battery back in and check for sure, but when I first looked at it after I stopped flying, the elevator was very noticeably down. Was running the stock 3200a battery with it as far forward as it would go. I figured it wouldn't be tail heavy that way, but now I wonder. --- Any thoughts from the old hands here. And about the slow roll, I had moved the aileron rods in one hole closer to the pivot and have what looks to be tons of travel. But do I need more? Or can you go too far?

Thanks ahead of time for any help.
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Old May 12, 2011, 09:26 PM
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Help - any problems keeping prop on apprentice

I decided to power up mine again to see for sure how much down trim was on the elevator. I also thought I would power up the motor once to see if it sounded like it was going up to full speed. I got it almost full on and it went crazy. I shut it down immediately and found that the prop was within a tiny fraction of an inch of flying across the room. The whole assembly came off the motor shaft. Is there a tiny little set screw in it in the hole I see which tightens on the flat on the shaft? And is this some sort of weak point? It's good that I didn't fly it one more time for sure.

Edit: I found that there is a set screw in it which you all knew anyway. I think I am going to have to try to smooth out the hole in the adapter and maybe the shaft, as it won't slide back on at least not without a lot of force. Once I get it back in place, should I put a drop of glue or something on top of the set screw, or does it need lock tite? It seems like the set screw won't actually back all of the way out of the adapter because of burrs at the top of the hole, so it would be impossible to get lock tite in without getting the screw out.
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Old May 12, 2011, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bobly View Post
But now the questions start. Wrong I know, but I had not checked cg, but it seemed to take a lot of down trim to level it out. I need to put the battery back in and check for sure, but when I first looked at it after I stopped flying, the elevator was very noticeably down. Was running the stock 3200a battery with it as far forward as it would go. I figured it wouldn't be tail heavy that way, but now I wonder. --- Any thoughts from the old hands here.
That does seem tail heavy, unless you were flying at full throttle. At WOT the Apprentice will want to climb. If you were at Wide Open Throttle, you may want to try trimming it again at about 1/2 to 2/3 throttle. If you weren't at full throttle, then you may want to check your ailerons and make sure that at their "neutral" position they are even with the wings. You may have the equivalent of Flaperons (ailerons acting as flaps) going on which increases your lift, causing the plane to climb. Otherwise, you probably are just tail heavy and may need to add some weight to the nose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobly View Post
And about the slow roll, I had moved the aileron rods in one hole closer to the pivot and have what looks to be tons of travel. But do I need more? Or can you go too far?
Thanks ahead of time for any help.
I wouldn't move the push rods in too far on the control horns (or out too far on the servo arm), or you'll be putting more and more strain on the servo itself. Remember that Archimedes said, "Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world." The closer in to the pivot point on the control horn (or farther away on the servo horn), the more force you are requiring from your servo.
Check the Dual Rates on your radio, make sure you're on High Rates.
Beyond that, the Apprentice is not an aerobatic plane. Even on high rates (with upgraded servos), my Apprentice still takes its sweet time about doing a roll.
Huge wing and proportionally small ailerons means slow movement. One might even call that the qualities you want in a trainer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobly View Post
I found that there is a set screw in it which you all knew anyway. I think I am going to have to try to smooth out the hole in the adapter and maybe the shaft, as it won't slide back on at least not without a lot of force. Once I get it back in place, should I put a drop of glue or something on top of the set screw, or does it need lock tite? It seems like the set screw won't actually back all of the way out of the adapter because of burrs at the top of the hole, so it would be impossible to get lock tite in without getting the screw out.
What probably happened is the guy who put it together didn't properly tighten the set screw. Once you have it back on, a drop of Loc-Tite on top of the set screw should do it. You could also try de-burring the top of the hole with a hobby knife (it's only an aluminum adapter) so you can get the set screw out. Ideally, yes, you remove the screw, put Loc-Tite on the threads, and then tighten it down, but if you can't remove the screw then Loc-Tite on top of it should do a similar trick. An unlike glue, Loc-Tite could be dug out with a hobby knife.
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Old May 15, 2011, 11:55 AM
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Well I ended up buying another Apprentice from the LHS (compulsive buyer lol). The owner sold it to me as a BNF which was nice. I will be using the motor, esc and prop for the repaired Apprentice. For the new one I've gone ahead and ordered a motor, ESC and prop. Went with the Power Up 25 Sport, Emax 50 Amp ESC and a 11 x 5.5E all from Heads Up RC. Anyone run a similar setup in their Apprentice? If so, was there a big difference in terms of speed/power compared to the stock setup? I can't wait to find out

I will be sending in the AR500 from the damaged plane this week to HH.
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Old May 15, 2011, 02:06 PM
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A cynical person would say the reason the plane comes with the AR500 is so they can make money selling parts and replacements.

My student lost control of his, and I lost a Radian with an AR500. That, plus the hundred other cases of loss of control I've read about on RCgroups make it statistically unlikely it's "something else".

This is such a nice plane, it's worth a few bucks to use a better receiver.

-Steve
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Old May 15, 2011, 02:51 PM
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A cynical person would say the reason the plane comes with the AR500 is so they can make money selling parts and replacements.

My student lost control of his, and I lost a Radian with an AR500. That, plus the hundred other cases of loss of control I've read about on RCgroups make it statistically unlikely it's "something else".

This is such a nice plane, it's worth a few bucks to use a better receiver.

-Steve
It's a good thing we're not a cynical bunch but at least HH does does replace parts but that is little consolation after your plane is destroyed. They sent me a new AR600 to replace my glitching ar500 which so far works fine. As I said before, most of the guys at the local field have taken the 500's out of their planes. We had another Radian go down earlier this week. It was flying nicely and not far away when I saw the pilot as he helplessly butterchurned the controls while saying "W$T$F$" as he simply lost the conection and the glider nosed over. Needless to say, it came down nose first...and it is going to need a lot of glue to put back together..if ever.. Not a happy camper....

Talk about statistically unlikely...this was the 6th plane that I've seen go down in the last year...all with AR500...all with lost connection. That's not counting the two times mine glitched. I bet HH is probably saying "W$T$F$" too. I do think that they are a good bunch that were unlucky to have an "Edsel" in the product line. I still buy their stuff....
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Old May 15, 2011, 04:55 PM
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Crawley Down, sussex, England
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Interesting to hear about the problems with the AR 500! I have just watched my F-15 Eagle smash into a thousand pieces with an ar500. Lost signal and didnt come back. Last month i had 3 lockouts on 3 different planes, all with the ar500. Luckily i only lost signal for about 2 seconds before i luckily got it back before the plane crashed. I couldnt imagine that all 3 of my receivers had gone bad in such a short space of time, so i sent my DX 7 transmitter to spektrum to be checked. After listening to you guys, i will send my Ar500s in to be checked aswell. Hopefully they will replace them with AR600s like you guys. I cant afford to keep sending planes up and losing signal!!
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Old May 15, 2011, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FTA_FTW View Post
Well I ended up buying another Apprentice from the LHS (compulsive buyer lol). The owner sold it to me as a BNF which was nice.

Anyone run a similar setup (Power Up 25 Sport) in their Apprentice? If so, was there a big difference in terms of speed/power compared to the stock setup? I can't wait to find out

I will be sending in the AR500 from the damaged plane this week to HH.
your LHS sold it to you as BNF (everything but Tx)? that's a good deal. Wise of you to replace the motor, ESC, (and hopefully the Rx) for your new Apprentice. Better electronics usually = longer lifespan.

To answer your question about the Power-Up-25 motor and similar set-ups, I'm running a Hacker A30-10XL 900kV 650W with the Eflite 40 Amp Pro ESC and 11x8 APCe prop. My Hacker's kV and Watts are very close to your Power-Up-25.
On 3s, that setup is really similar to the Eflite Power 15 950kV motor, which is decent power for training, normal flying, and mild aerobatics, but on 4s, my Apprentice has TONS of power. Around 187 watts per pound which is well into the 3D power range. Basically unlimited vertical (though it isn't balanced for it), and much faster (but it tends to climb due to the high lift of the wing)

I think you'll like that setup on your Apprentice (though I'd go with the APC 11x7, rather than the 11x5.5 which may not give you much power on 3s, but check it with your watt meter). The capability of flying 3s or 4s with the same motor and prop is nice.

Have fun!
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