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Old Oct 17, 2008, 09:41 PM
Keep Flying
Swedesboro NJ
Joined May 2008
752 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by woketman
A second spar is possible, but it would take a LOT of effort. Besides, it is entirely unwarranted. The stock design is perfectly adequate, as long as the spar and the spar's receiver are un-damaged as designed.

I have one of the kits from the first batch. I have checked and the little wing dowel end caps are on there pretty good. I guess a few were not, but mine is fine. No need for redundant wing dowels, you just have to verify that yours are in good shape.

One thing I would like to see changed is that amount of area available on the dowel caps. They should have made them a bit wider (with the dowels sticking out a bit more). As they are, you can't put many more rubber bands on there than they give you. I always use more for security. Just don't crash!!!
I agree i think adding spar would be more work than its worth,i think the spar thats in there is enough and to add another would take a lot of work,you have to remember these are trainers not acrobatic plans,don't get me wrong i have rolled ,looped,hammerhead and put it threw its paces but i still am carefully on a windy day or anything extreme,its not a corsair or t28.as long as that factory spar is ok i think it is fine,as far as the caps go i am the one that had them come off my plane,you can see in the earlier posts,they where just pressed on i guess or with little glue and came right off on first flight,my replacement plane i checked and 2 walked right off and the other 2 were glued with this white silicone,i re glued them all with ca and had no problems since,horizon has put out a bulleton on the apprentice page under support on these caps .i also wished they were a bit bigger i added a couple extra band to and there is no much space a little bigger would be nice

Ron
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Old Oct 17, 2008, 10:34 PM
Horizon Hobby Employee
Mahomet, Illinois
Joined Aug 2007
2,285 Posts
From the photos, it looks to me like a manufacturing defect in the spar. We'll check it over once it gets here.

I'm pretty sure the structural design of the wing is sound. That's one beefy spar for this kind of airplane!

David
Horizon
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 05:49 AM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
USA, CT, Shelton
Joined Jan 2008
2,732 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Eichstedt
From the photos, it looks to me like a manufacturing defect in the spar. We'll check it over once it gets here.

I'm pretty sure the structural design of the wing is sound. That's one beefy spar for this kind of airplane!

David
Horizon
I know David is waiting and has the tracking number so he can see this for himself. Like he said this is a really beefy spar and should not have snapped. I do think that some sort of tape backer for the wing joint, and or a screw plate would be good. The LE/TE pieces will do thier job of keeping the wing together in alignment. Perhaps this is just a freak and I have gottena one of a kind failure
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 08:47 AM
Registered User
Slidell, LA, USA
Joined Nov 2002
715 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapMike
I know David is waiting and has the tracking number so he can see this for himself. Like he said this is a really beefy spar and should not have snapped. I do think that some sort of tape backer for the wing joint, and or a screw plate would be good. The LE/TE pieces will do thier job of keeping the wing together in alignment. Perhaps this is just a freak and I have gottena one of a kind failure
Yes, the forward & rear wing caps are plenty to keep the wings in allignment. Don't forget: when the wing is fastened to the fuselage, the wing seat does the lion's share of keeping the wings in allignment!

I disagree with the statement "you have to remember these are trainers not acrobatic planes". If Horizon has done their job correctly (and to me, it appears they have), then this spar, if un-damaged, should handle just about everything that you can do to this plane. That includes full throttle verticle dives with an insane pull-up at the bottom (that is excatly what a learning student will do once in a while).

Great job Horizon!!!
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 10:10 AM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
USA, CT, Shelton
Joined Jan 2008
2,732 Posts
Woketman. Withthe stresses a studen would give this plane it should even handle a top gun flair out to bled speed provided you do it with no power, but alas mine didn't. If anything it is intereting to bebate. I love the plane and cant wait to get mine back. I look forwad to a relaxed flyer and that is exactl what she is.
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 10:23 AM
Registered User
Slidell, LA, USA
Joined Nov 2002
715 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapMike
Woketman. Withthe stresses a studen would give this plane it should even handle a top gun flair out to bled speed provided you do it with no power, but alas mine didn't. If anything it is intereting to bebate. I love the plane and cant wait to get mine back. I look forwad to a relaxed flyer and that is exactl what she is.
Agreed! Yours must have had some spar defect, as previously mentioned. With a nominal spar, this thing is bullet proof. I just wish there was more rubber band area on the end caps. Horizon take note: extend those a bit in follow on production runs.
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 10:27 AM
Registered User
Slidell, LA, USA
Joined Nov 2002
715 Posts
Ya know, I have been thinking about this plane lately. I bought it to teach my 8 year old to fly, but he is not as interested as I'd hoped (video games!).

I have been flying for 35.5 years and turbines for 9 years. I am used to going 200 mph on a low knife-edge pass. I figured I'd get this for my boy and I would never fly it except for teaching him. I was wrong. Its great for putting the camera on. But even after all these years, just doing 30 minutes (on one charge) of repeated touch & goes with this thing on a still evening still gets me going. What a blast!!!
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 12:54 PM
Keep Flying
Swedesboro NJ
Joined May 2008
752 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by woketman
Yes, the forward & rear wing caps are plenty to keep the wings in allignment. Don't forget: when the wing is fastened to the fuselage, the wing seat does the lion's share of keeping the wings in allignment!

I disagree with the statement "you have to remember these are trainers not acrobatic planes". If Horizon has done their job correctly (and to me, it appears they have), then this spar, if un-damaged, should handle just about everything that you can do to this plane. That includes full throttle verticle dives with an insane pull-up at the bottom (that is excatly what a learning student will do once in a while).

Great job Horizon!!!
Maybe i worded it wrong or you just disagree,which is great thats why we have these discussions,you are correct that these plans will get put threw the paces buy students and will be stressed ,would i have a student on a windy day dive MY plane and do a insane pullout ,no way,maybe with his plane LOL .but that may happen with students and it should take the stress but would i fly this like my t28,no,i have a t28 power 15 with spars in the wing and fuse and hammer it all day and not worry but still am careful ,do you fly this the way you fly your 200mph turbine ?I would not do it with this for 2 reasons, 1> i did not buy this to fly that way i also bought it for me and my son,who also is loosing interest fast,and i fly it at a relaxing pace in contrast to the t28 and other planes and its a great plane for that and doing video i have a blast with it,the other reason i do not go crazy with this is there is not as much discussion on this plane and do not know all its strengths and weakness as we just found out with capmike and my problem with the caps,Your point is true it should be able to take stress students put on this plane,my point is am i going to try to overstress this plane no way i already watched a wing fall of at 1000ft.i guess i am a bit overcausious since loosing the first one and fly it a bit conservatively but its still a blast as you say doing touch and goes and flying in general

Ron
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 04:04 PM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
USA, CT, Shelton
Joined Jan 2008
2,732 Posts
Snoopy. I hear you on that. I would not fly this like my Corsair, nor would I expect it to perform the same as a warbird or acrobatic plane. Can it do it? Yes I am sure that it will and the design is great. I just dont want to trash it and the slow relaxed flights are really what I want.
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 04:42 PM
Keep Flying
Swedesboro NJ
Joined May 2008
752 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapMike
Snoopy. I hear you on that. I would not fly this like my Corsair, nor would I expect it to perform the same as a warbird or acrobatic plane. Can it do it? Yes I am sure that it will and the design is great. I just dont want to trash it and the slow relaxed flights are really what I want.
Hey capmike you will now what i am talking bout when you get your replacement and i am sure you will with that faulty spar,but you will be very cautious on the first couple flights now i have more confidence in the apprentice and roll it and loop it but without going crazy like the t28 or corsair,but like wokeman said i come to really enjoy this plane its very relaxing and a lot of fun to fly,i love seeing that big wing go by ,I parallel some lipos together for long fun flights and for the video its also great,i used to use my stock t28 for vids and wound up seasick watching them,now i get nice altitude shots at slow speed which looks a lot better on tv

Ron
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 05:09 PM
Registered User
Slidell, LA, USA
Joined Nov 2002
715 Posts
How much duration are you guys getting on the stock battery?

I have not timed it, but have never even felt or heard it getting weak, much less hit the cut-off (except for once). That time was the first flight I did touch & goes exclusively. I am pretty sure I flew for 30 minutes! I never really hit full throttle. Just 2/3 throttle to get back up into the pattern, down to 25% for crosswind and some of base, almost to idle for the touch and back to 2/3. Did that for a long time.
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 06:35 PM
Keep Flying
Swedesboro NJ
Joined May 2008
752 Posts
i usually set my timer for 12 to 15, 12 if i am climbing and doing video which is half to 3 /4 throttle and very little full except for some high speed passes before landing.15 if i am flying low altitude and doing some touch and goes,never hit the lvc.

Ron
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 06:47 PM
Registered User
Joined Oct 2007
33 Posts
Maiden flight

Did my maiden today at the San Juan RC field in Farmington NM.

Beautiful day, winds about 10-15 with gusts, stronger winds 100 feet up.

Did about 5 take offs and landings. Not all the most gorgeous, but walked away from all of them

Handled very well...smooth power on takeoff (and lots of it), stable in the gusts, nice deadstick landings and flares.

All this on a single charge with no signs of slowing down.

I gotta change out that power connector to a deans connector, and the final rubber bands barely fit on the small hook caps...but still a kick.
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 06:58 PM
Airplane crasher
CapMike's Avatar
USA, CT, Shelton
Joined Jan 2008
2,732 Posts
Krash good one on the maiden and subsiquent flights. Glad the deadstick and flares worked out without the plane clapping its wings . Seriously though this plane should be a kick and cant wait to get the replacement. I am looking forward to it because we are forcast for light winds later in the week. May have to play hookie for half the day just to get some stick time.
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Old Oct 18, 2008, 07:27 PM
Keep Flying
Swedesboro NJ
Joined May 2008
752 Posts
Hey sir krash,congrats on the maiden,this handles 10-15 well she gets some wind under the wing she wants to rise and not come down,sounds like you had a good day i love the way she land ,she just glides right in with that big wing,

>>I gotta change out that power connector to a deans connector>>

Those ec3 are a pain especially with the wire being a bit short,i extended my wire and add deans and now its great ,they sell extensions for ecs3 to deans they are bout 2 inches and require no soddering, if forget where i saw them just google it

hey capmike check this guy out and see if you can do some of this stuff with the appentice LOL
Ultimate rc plane Gernot Bruckmann (6 min 58 sec)
i watched this guy one sunday couple months back and went out with the t28 trying to do some of his tricks cost me a new wing,cowl,motor mount,if i am ever in austria and see this guy i am giveing him the bill LOL

Ron
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