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Old May 04, 2011, 09:46 AM
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yea this plane is very friendly when it comes to noobie's flying. I litterly took it out of the box charged the battery and up it went. I was going on just what i learned from Real Flight. If you have any doubts about flying GET A SIMULATOR first. That helped me so much. The only downfall of the sim it really doesnt teach you how to fly in wind and the distance is a little squed in the sim vs real life. But if you can fly in the sim you can fly in real life.

I would recommend this plane to anyone wanting to learn.
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Old May 04, 2011, 07:09 PM
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You can setup and adjust the wind in RealFlight... You can even make it gusty and variable on direction.

Sometimes, I found real life a little easier as the sim is not really 3d on the monitor, though it tries.



Glad you had a good first flight with the Appr!
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Old May 04, 2011, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by chaos2984 View Post
yea this plane is very friendly when it comes to noobie's flying. I litterly took it out of the box charged the battery and up it went. I was going on just what i learned from Real Flight. If you have any doubts about flying GET A SIMULATOR first. That helped me so much. The only downfall of the sim it really doesnt teach you how to fly in wind and the distance is a little squed in the sim vs real life. But if you can fly in the sim you can fly in real life.

I would recommend this plane to anyone wanting to learn.
Chaos - I have a question - if you have real flight and fly an apprentice, maybe you have the information I'm after. I just bought an apprentice and had decided that the apprentice should fly somewhat like the nexstar ep on real flight sim. Can you offer any thoughts on this?
I learned how to fly on the real flight sim. I only have the basic version though and wish I had a better version now.
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Old May 04, 2011, 08:25 PM
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I'd agree that real life is easier than the Simulator in terms of keep track of your airplane and its orientation. However, even with the variable wind speed and direction settings in Real Flight, the sim is much easier than real life. I've had my sim set on "advanced" difficulty since I bought and installed it, and wish that there were about 10 difficulty levels past that one. "easy" isn't even trying, "normal" is laughable, and "advanced" just doesn't cut it. No substitute for the real thing. I can fly the hardest aircraft on Real Flight easier than I can even my Apprentice on a normal breezy day.

However, that being said, the Simulator DOES have its place in terms of teaching a newbie pilot proper flight principles, which stick movements make the plane do X Y or Z, "reverse" controlling, i.e. when the airplane is heading toward you, you use opposite stick movements for rudder and aileron, etc. All those things are better to learn on the simulator where when you screw up, you push the magic red button on the controller, and PRESTO! You have a new airplane!

However, even if you're really REALLY good on the sim, and feel like you're ready for the real thing, you still need to start with a trainer. I did NOT do that, and it cost me a couple of sport planes before I learned my lesson and bought my Apprentice.

Bobly -- I have Real Flight and an Apprentice, the NexStar does fly somewhat like the Apprentice in that they're both high-wing trainers. However, the Apprentice glides better than the NexStar in Real Flight does. I can cut the throttle of my Apprentice from WAY out at a decent altitude and glide all the way in. However, even at decent altitude in Real Flight, if you cut the throttle on the NexStar it doesn't want to glide as far. Also, the NexStar flies upside down much easier than my Apprentice does, and it handles the wind much better (at least in the Sim it does, my Apprentice doesn't like much wind) However, once you can make the NexStar do anything you want on the Sim, you'd probably be ready for the Apprentice on a calm day.
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Old May 04, 2011, 08:33 PM
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Well, in the apprentice's defense, it would probably fly better in the wind without that big albatross wing...

It does kinda bounce around in the wind though. Since it is older and more beat up, I typically fly that for warmup before I fly my t-28 and the t-28 cuts much nicer.
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Old May 04, 2011, 08:37 PM
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yea i have the basic version too g3.5 i have a bunch of add on's i d/l with torrents rofl FFFREEEEEE. Yea its flys like the nexstar. Very easy and nimble and not hard to get introuble unless your to low to the ground. The big wing span and design provides alot of lift.

All i did on my first flight was climb out to around 75-150ft and level off and it just came natural to me from using the sim. I just flew it around in large ovals just to get the hang of it and how it feels and reacts With anything over 50/60% throttle the plane will climb that is normal dont worry about it. Just rule of thumb fly high enough to where you can make 3 mistakes. Or atleast make a big one and recover from it. Ive had a few moments but been ok. Even in a steep dive this plane will pull itself up with the lift it generates and they way the wing is designed.

biggest key is not to PANIC and DO NOT PANIC. Thats the worst you can do. I lost my apprentice and i wasnt panicing when something broke and i had to fight it with wind and i was a little ancy but never paniced i just tried all i could but still lost it.

but you will be just fine if you can fly on the sim and have your orientation down you will be ok with the apprentice. Orientation is very easy to see on the apprentice. good luck and just post up your questions and someone will answer
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Old May 04, 2011, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SandHog View Post
However, even if you're really REALLY good on the sim, and feel like you're ready for the real thing, you still need to start with a trainer. I did NOT do that, and it cost me a couple of sport planes before I learned my lesson and bought my Apprentice.
Please take that as word from god and the TRUTH Ive done it and crashed and burned. Its not fun watching 200 bux crash into the ground.
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Old May 04, 2011, 08:59 PM
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Some of the guys I fly with don't understand why I wanted the apprentice, but I wanted something big to go with my little stuff. And at my age, reflexes aren't what I thought they once were. I have a wildcat which I have flown and a brand new t28 waiting for the chance. I fly um's almost every evening. I have um t28, sukhoi xp, mosquito, corsair and Beast. I don't have much problem with the um's as long as I don't get too fancy too close to the ground. But they are so durable, that it is easy to get careless with them. I thought the apprentice would fly slower than my Wildcat or t28 and still be able to do some rolls, loops and basic aerobatic moves. Hope I'm right.
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Old May 05, 2011, 12:02 AM
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You're right; the Apprentice will fly slower than your Wildcat or T-28. With the built-in wing droops, it pretty much doesn't want to stall; when it goes too slow, it just starts to descend. Also the Apprentice IS capable of loops, rolls, and basic aerobatic moves; for a trainer, it is quite maneuverable. Though even on high rates it rolls comparatively slowly, but that is due to its HUGE wing, as well as the fact that the ailerons aren't very big; unlike on an aerobatic plane where the ailerons take up to 25-33% of the wing chord and run the whole length of the wing. Like my Eflite Sukhoi SU-26m, which will do a 540 degree (1 and 1/2 turns) axial roll in one second.

So if you want to do rolls and loops and such with your Apprentice, just make sure you're fairly high up.
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Old May 05, 2011, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by WBFAir View Post
Not quite sure what you are talking about in that you removed "3" grub screws as you should only have to remove the single one that is holding the adapter on.

For what I know is not the best pic but here is the one from the HH site for this part: http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=EFL2735

I am assuming what you mean by the other two might be the ones holding the shaft of the motor to the motor, by which if these are the ones you mean, you need to put those back in and use some light locktight if you do as you do not want to be yanking on the adapter with those out as you may move that shaft around inside that motor.

As far as getting it off, yeah I don't think there is any real reason it shouldn't come loose once you have that one grub screw out, so if that's out and you still can't budge it or spin it, its probably just stuck on there.

Perhaps a little heat to expand it with a heat gun?

Other then that I couldn't think of any particular tools you could use other then muscle to get it off.

Then to answer your other question.

My AP w/o a pack upon first assembly bone stock was 1055g and my friends who used a bit of to much epoxy to glue the wings was 1078g.

A note on this, with a few upgraded parts such as the motor, ESC and prop, and a Turnigy 3300mAh 3S 20C Lipo Pack, mine now weights in at 1370g and it fly's just great.

The AP is very forgiving for a bit of over spec weight.

Hope that helps
Thanks for the info. I just need to figgure out why my plane is flying nose heavy. It never used to. I'm wondering if a nose dive I did a while ago distorted the front of the plane to the point that the downthrust angle has increased. Might try adding a bit of weight to the rear or adding some washers to the motor mount to decrease the downthust angle.
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Old May 05, 2011, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by SandHog View Post
I'd agree that real life is easier than the Simulator in terms of keep track of your airplane and its orientation. However, even with the variable wind speed and direction settings in Real Flight, the sim is much easier than real life. I've had my sim set on "advanced" difficulty since I bought and installed it, and wish that there were about 10 difficulty levels past that one. "easy" isn't even trying, "normal" is laughable, and "advanced" just doesn't cut it. No substitute for the real thing. I can fly the hardest aircraft on Real Flight easier than I can even my Apprentice on a normal breezy day.

However, that being said, the Simulator DOES have its place in terms of teaching a newbie pilot proper flight principles, which stick movements make the plane do X Y or Z, "reverse" controlling, i.e. when the airplane is heading toward you, you use opposite stick movements for rudder and aileron, etc. All those things are better to learn on the simulator where when you screw up, you push the magic red button on the controller, and PRESTO! You have a new airplane!

However, even if you're really REALLY good on the sim, and feel like you're ready for the real thing, you still need to start with a trainer. I did NOT do that, and it cost me a couple of sport planes before I learned my lesson and bought my Apprentice.

Bobly -- I have Real Flight and an Apprentice, the NexStar does fly somewhat like the Apprentice in that they're both high-wing trainers. However, the Apprentice glides better than the NexStar in Real Flight does. I can cut the throttle of my Apprentice from WAY out at a decent altitude and glide all the way in. However, even at decent altitude in Real Flight, if you cut the throttle on the NexStar it doesn't want to glide as far. Also, the NexStar flies upside down much easier than my Apprentice does, and it handles the wind much better (at least in the Sim it does, my Apprentice doesn't like much wind) However, once you can make the NexStar do anything you want on the Sim, you'd probably be ready for the Apprentice on a calm day.
Sand hog - thanks for the comparison. I'm happy with part of your comparison and disappointed with some of it. The glide part makes me super happy. I love to cut power and come in slow. Still working on landing just where I want to instead of 50 feet away from where I planned to. But disappointed on the roll rate, I was hoping that the apprentice would roll and fly inverted as well as the nexstar.
Having just recently started this addiction, I agree pretty well with most of what you say, but have an addition to offer. For me, the ultra micro planes were an excellent step between the sim and larger stuff. All the basics of control and orientation are there with 1,000 times more durability. I put ultra micros into the ground 1,000's of times that I just picked them up and flew them away that would have been a pick up the pieces in a bag and try to rebuild experience with the larger park flyers. Couple the durability with the fact that I can just step out in my yard any time I catch a good flying condition and fly away, so get to spend lots more time on the sticks. I can fly almost every day at least for the last hour or so of light or early in the morning with the um's in the yard. For the larger planes, it's get all the gear together, load up, drive to field, and then maybe find out that the wind is up when I get there.
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Old May 05, 2011, 08:05 AM
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yea i would love to have a micro but it really isnt practical around here. Its just to windy here. Its very rare we get a day with 0 wind.

Well from what sandhog said. This plane isn't designed for aerobatics inmind. Its designed to be a trainer so it has some charactastics to help make it take. So its not going to snap roll and isnt ment to fly very well upside down. But if you watch it and control the elevator just right you can fly upside down.

If you think your nose heavy for some reason get the manual find where the cg is suppsto be and see where the plane tilts when you hold your finger tips on it. I think its at the pieace of tap that covers the alieron servo wires. Just double check the manual.

As far as percision landings Ill tell you from first hand expierence do not try to do it when you have objects to fly around or could hit when comming in on approach. Ive done that and clobbered a light pole. But with anything practice makes perfect. Just make sure you have nothing you can possibly hit and just keep trying and you will get it.

Also the bigger they are the harder they break. I saw this weekend a 1/2 scale plane comming in on approach maybe 10 feet off the ground coasting in at 10mph max and it snapped into the ground with a radio issue and it destroyed the plane. it broke the whole motor mount and fire wall off and busted up the fuse pretty good. The rest was in tacked. But just goes to show you the bigger they are the harder they fall.

you will be happy with the apprentice
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Old May 05, 2011, 11:49 AM
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...For me, the ultra micro planes were an excellent step between the sim and larger stuff. All the basics of control and orientation are there with 1,000 times more durability. I put ultra micros into the ground 1,000's of times that I just picked them up and flew them away that would have been a pick up the pieces in a bag and try to rebuild experience with the larger park flyers. Couple the durability with the fact that I can just step out in my yard any time I catch a good flying condition and fly away, so get to spend lots more time on the sticks. I can fly almost every day at least for the last hour or so of light or early in the morning with the um's in the yard. For the larger planes, it's get all the gear together, load up, drive to field, and then maybe find out that the wind is up when I get there.
Yup, you've hit it right on the head; pack up, load up, drive to flying area, and then maybe find out that the wind is up when you get there. That has happened to me WAY too many times. But if you want to fly the bigger stuff, and unless you live on a ranch or have a HUGE yard, that is just the way of it.

Also, if you're used to stuffing the ultra-micros into the ground, picking them up, dusting them off, and flying again immediately . . . well, that isn't going to happen with anything larger. As Chaos said, the bigger they are they more damage they suffer.

It is simply a matter of physics: mass X velocity = momentum

The ultra micros weigh almost nothing, and aren't going very fast. Therefore almost no momentum to cause damage. My Apprentice weighs about 3.5 lbs, and is going quite a lot faster. My T-34 weighs about 5 lbs, and goes faster yet. The 1/2 scale plane that Chaos mentioned probably weighs several dozen pounds if not more than that, and probably lands at 50mph or higher.

Sounds like all in all you're pretty happy with your UM planes. Maybe find a friend with a buddy-box setup or a trainer and see if you really want to fly the bigger stuff.
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Old May 05, 2011, 01:21 PM
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I've gotten past the buddy box and can fly the bigger ones, just have to be more careful. Also, where I fly the larger ones, you have more room to be able to go higher and put the extra safety margin in play. With the um's, I can practice things I wouldn't consider with the larger ones at this point. I dumb thumbed my Sukhoi xp straight in from inverted flight about 6 ft. off the ground the other day - picked it up and flew it again. Hate to think what the apprentice would look like if I did that. There's even a difference in the um's. I won't roll my um t28 over 5 ft off the ground - usually keep it 25' or better if I want to put the wheel side up - it doesn't roll over as easy as the Suk. And the Beast will roll about as good, but is more fragile, so I keep it higher also. I still anxiously await the opportunity when I have the time and the weather is solid enough to put the apprentice in the air. I may find I don't like it as well as the t28D or the Wildcat, but I hope I do. As I said before, just hope it will do some basic stuff - have no intent of it being a 3d machine, but will be dissappointed if it won't at least roll, loop and occasionally fly a circuit or two with the rubber side up.
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Old May 05, 2011, 04:24 PM
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I think you'll like your Apprentice; besides being over-confident from too much time on the simulator, the reason I didn't want to get a trainer was I thought I'd be bored with it too soon, and it would just be a waste of money. When I finally bought my Apprentice, I loved it immediately, and even though I have two 3D planes and my scale/sport T-34 currently in flying condition, I still really enjoy taking my Apprentice up. It also makes a great battery break-in platform, as well as a way for me to "get my wings back" after I haven't flown for awhile.

As for flying upside down, the Apprentice will do it, it just takes constant working the sticks to keep it flying straight and level while inverted. Most of that is because it is a trainer, has high dihedral in the wing, a non-symmetrical airfoil, and is balanced as a high-wing aircraft. If you were flying inverted at sufficient altitude, and just let go of the sticks, the Apprentice would eventually right itself, though it might end up in a bit of a dive, but with enough speed, it starts to climb. Again, the characteristics of a good trainer design.
My 3D Sukhoi SU-26m will fly upside down as happily as it flies right side up, but again, that is a 3D plane. It goes where you last pointed it. Even into the ground, if you're not on the sticks.
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