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Old Feb 21, 2013, 06:19 AM
ein flugel schplinterizer
seanpcola's Avatar
USA, FL, Pensacola
Joined Sep 2004
5,081 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by alstrahm View Post
servo-less spoilers

Sean, do tell more!

Al
Al,

Can't find the link right now so I'll ask Keith to post it since I can't remember who the distributor is. Keith has a set on order. Basically it's a scissor type spoiler with the drive motor already mounted. the whole thing drops into the wing one piece.
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Old Feb 21, 2013, 09:38 AM
Full Scale Piper Cub Driver
Piper J3's Avatar
Hinckley, Ohio
Joined Nov 2008
2,430 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanpcola View Post
Al,

Can't find the link right now so I'll ask Keith to post it since I can't remember who the distributor is. Keith has a set on order. Basically it's a scissor type spoiler with the drive motor already mounted. the whole thing drops into the wing one piece.
Here you go..... http://www.espritmodel.com/airplanes...-spoilers.aspx
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 06:29 AM
Egads! It's a GIRL!
Lil Stinkpot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Jul 2011
3,309 Posts
Did someone say spoilers?

I have both spoilers set now, and the frames are around them. All I need to do now is put in the servo supports, glue in the servos (I had to cut off the screw mounts), replace the sheeting, sand, re-cover, and install the wing pegs. That's it! And I'll have all day Saturday to do it.

Plenty of time, as long as I stay away from the yam convention this weekend. (Though I DO need some shorty knitting needles.)


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Old Feb 22, 2013, 06:42 AM
ein flugel schplinterizer
seanpcola's Avatar
USA, FL, Pensacola
Joined Sep 2004
5,081 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piper J3 View Post
Thank you sir! Couldn't remember who sold them.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:47 AM
I need some building time in t
scaflock's Avatar
United States, AZ, Douglas
Joined Nov 2007
1,617 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanpcola View Post
If you get the plans finalized and I'm not put on a deadline () I'll build a prototype too but (with your permission) I have some other ideas that won't gel with your concept for the actual kit.

I already had you in mind for doing up one of the prototypes my man. The only "Concepts" for this design is that it's got to have legs for XC flying, be super strong but remain within the cost range of your avg person. There are a couple of others here I've got in mind for doing prototype builds that I will be contacting in the future to see if they're up to it and have the time to devote to this kind of project. This is NOT going to be a quick build by any means!!!

Spoilers: I would use those new servo-less spoilers that just drop in the wing and plug in (Added cost but I think well worth it)

Send me a link to them if you have one and I'll see if I can work it into the wing layout. Remember that big wings need big spoilers. This ain't no Riser 100 we're talking about here! It comes down to a matter of what sizes they come in and how they're setup.

Dual Tow release. Explanation : Aerotow release in nose and releasable winch towhook both running off the same servo. Reason: I want to experiment with higher winch launches done the old school way with no regards to "contest rules". Tony uses releasable tow hooks on some of his SailAires and he can strip the last inch of line off a full drum before release by kiting it. As you know I don't give a rat's patooti about contest flying but kiting is a blast and you can get a glider waayyy up before release.

I agree with that idea both in principal and execution. I've been known to kite a plane or two in my day as well and you're right! It's FUN!!!!! I haven't drawn in a tow release as of yet but the idea had been on my mind since the start. I also like the idea of having more "usable" weight in the front section instead of lead.

(Maybe) Landing wheel

I've looked into that already (remember our conversation while I was driving back from Tucson and you had been with Keith at the Aero-Tow?) and my problem with that is that it would get right in the way of my ballasting system. I've never liked having the ballast in the wings and feel it's a LOT easier to adjust said ballast if it is located in the fuselage at the center of gravity. With all the wing that is going to be on this thing, I really REALLY think that being able to ballast it up is going to be important. I want this thing to be able to be flown in winds over 10 mph if you know what I mean. Only option I can see off the top of my pointed little head is to make the fuselage body deeper so there is clearance for the wheel while maintaining the ballasting system.


One concept I've been thinking about on a larger D-tube wing is to glass the D-tube sheeting to stiffen it up but use really light covering on the open structures. I want to play with that idea.

Trust me when I say I've given this a lot of thought as well. For an advanced builders like us that wouldn't be much of a problem to pull off. HOWEVER I'm trying to keep the design so that someone that's only got say a half dozen builds under their belt can build this without to many problems. Between the cross bracing between the ribs, the solid carbon spars and the D-tube construction I feel the wing should be plenty stiff and strong enough to handle a zoom off a winch (or is that wench? I get them confused at times... ) I've also considered doing up a composite over foam bagged version sometime in the future. This would be for my own use as now you're talking about equipment and building styles that a lot of people just don't do because of setup costs. THAT much carbon/kevlar would be expensive and if ya mess it up.....


Hummmmmm. More food for thought... I keep making changes then my drawings are going to be one big blurry bunch of eraser marks!
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 09:52 AM
I need some building time in t
scaflock's Avatar
United States, AZ, Douglas
Joined Nov 2007
1,617 Posts
Oh yeah... Another one of the features are the 3/16 ply shear webs cut at 45 degrees. Between them and the solid carbon spars you should just about be able to stand on this wing with no problem.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 05:43 PM
ein flugel schplinterizer
seanpcola's Avatar
USA, FL, Pensacola
Joined Sep 2004
5,081 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanpcola View Post
Thank you sir! Couldn't remember who sold them.
Ooops,

Wait a minute. I just checked the link after Jeff expressed confusion. Those aren't what I'm talking about. Let me look around.

These are the ones I'm talking about:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ight_Pair.html
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 05:46 PM
life long racing nut & modeler
granada don's Avatar
Granada Hills Ca.
Joined Nov 2009
1,967 Posts
Hi Jeff

Could you use a thin carbon sheet and have the shear webs cut out for your kit , and save a ton of weight over 3/16 ply?

Maybe 1/16" thick?

G Don
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 05:48 PM
ein flugel schplinterizer
seanpcola's Avatar
USA, FL, Pensacola
Joined Sep 2004
5,081 Posts
Jeff, RE: Ballast placement:

Why not run tubes in the wings and add slugs there? You can run them in front and back, parallel to the spar and in fact tie them in for added strength. Then just have a plug to lock them in and dowels to take up slack so they don't slide back and forth. Seen plenty of gliders set up that way. You then have room for the LG.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 06:05 PM
I need some building time in t
scaflock's Avatar
United States, AZ, Douglas
Joined Nov 2007
1,617 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by granada don View Post
Hi Jeff

Could you use a thin carbon sheet and have the shear webs cut out for your kit , and save a ton of weight over 3/16 ply?

Maybe 1/16" thick?

G Don
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanpcola View Post
Jeff, RE: Ballast placement:

Why not run tubes in the wings and add slugs there? You can run them in front and back, parallel to the spar and in fact tie them in for added strength. Then just have a plug to lock them in and dowels to take up slack so they don't slide back and forth. Seen plenty of gliders set up that way. You then have room for the LG.
Don: I could go that way but 16 ft of wing is going to take a lot of carbon. I'm planning on using lite ply for the shears so it's not going to be all that much extra weight. The goal is to keep the cost down on this design and considering that I don't really have the equipment to cut all that carbon I'd have to farm that work out and that is going to drive the costs way up. Lite ply is going to be much easier for people to work with and when cut at 45 degrees will be plenty strong for the weight.

Sean: I've also seen ballasting systems set up like you mentioned but I still prefer having it in the fuselage for a couple of reasons. First it's easy to access and adjust the amount needed. Second it makes building the wings much easier. Third casting up ballast plates in different weights is easier than trying to cast them as plugs to fit in a wing tube. There is nothing wrong with the wing tube system but I just like my way of doing it is all. Check your yahoo mail when you get a chance. Sent you a file. Going to check out those spoilers now.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 06:15 PM
ein flugel schplinterizer
seanpcola's Avatar
USA, FL, Pensacola
Joined Sep 2004
5,081 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by scaflock View Post
Don: I could go that way but 16 ft of wing is going to take a lot of carbon. I'm planning on using lite ply for the shears so it's not going to be all that much extra weight. The goal is to keep the cost down on this design and considering that I don't really have the equipment to cut all that carbon I'd have to farm that work out and that is going to drive the costs way up. Lite ply is going to be much easier for people to work with and when cut at 45 degrees will be plenty strong for the weight.

Sean: I've also seen ballasting systems set up like you mentioned but I still prefer having it in the fuselage for a couple of reasons. First it's easy to access and adjust the amount needed. Second it makes building the wings much easier. Third casting up ballast plates in different weights is easier than trying to cast them as plugs to fit in a wing tube. There is nothing wrong with the wing tube system but I just like my way of doing it is all. Check your yahoo mail when you get a chance. Sent you a file. Going to check out those spoilers now.
Not if you nicely ask your buddy Sean to send you some slugs.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 06:21 PM
I need some building time in t
scaflock's Avatar
United States, AZ, Douglas
Joined Nov 2007
1,617 Posts
Cool spoilers but they're a tad short for the ASP project. I'd have to redesign the wing to include them and at this point I'm not ready to do that. Maybe I'll use them on a future design where I can plan on them from the start to make it easy on myself.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 06:22 PM
I need some building time in t
scaflock's Avatar
United States, AZ, Douglas
Joined Nov 2007
1,617 Posts
LOL... Got some of those D.U. slugs handy? Now those babies would add some weight and not take up tons of room.
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 06:30 PM
ein flugel schplinterizer
seanpcola's Avatar
USA, FL, Pensacola
Joined Sep 2004
5,081 Posts
Actually I did have a source for the DU slugs at one time.

I don't think it would be hard to add length to those spoilers. Like I said, if I build a prototype I may be doing some mods but I'll keep in mind you want to keep the cost down. How about if they work out they can be considered "additional suggestions (parts not included)".
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Old Feb 22, 2013, 07:12 PM
ein flugel schplinterizer
seanpcola's Avatar
USA, FL, Pensacola
Joined Sep 2004
5,081 Posts
And now for something a little different:

http://www.youtube.com/embed/nA3LtXn...layer_embedded
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