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Old Jan 28, 2012, 07:28 PM
3 Sons - Legos and Lift
2motheus's Avatar
Grand Rapids, MI
Joined Apr 2004
565 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by granada don View Post
Hi Tim

If you are getting bloody nose's from the ca , you are way overdue to stop using it.

When you body goes over the edge to being a MCS guy you will be in big trouble then, i know as it happened to me and ruined my life.

Through that CA away and use white glue, just a word of warning !!!

G Don
G Don,
Thank you for the concern and good advice.
I probably overstated the bloody nose thing. It's similar to when I'm out in the very cold and dry air, or when I breathe in a lot of dust. Later when I blow my nose or sneeze it's more likely to bleed. I think the CA dries out the membranes when it reacts with the moisture.
I also prefer white glue or WBPU, but if I'm doing an instant repair or I need something to penetrate carbon fiber, I use the CA judiciously. Using the dampened mask pretty much eliminates the irritation.

Question for respirator users:
Is that mask just a really well sealing filter, or do the pads actually catch chemicals in the air?

Tim
onewinch.com
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Old Jan 28, 2012, 08:18 PM
Egads! It's a GIRL!
Lil Stinkpot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Jul 2011
3,321 Posts
The pads are filled with charcoal, and probably other yummy goodies, that filter out the bad stuff. Saved my über sensitive snoot many times these past few months. (I have only been "into" RC since last July )


I did not know there was a dust pre-filter. I will look into that. If it's just dust I'm making, I have a nice fitting dust mask that I use, one of those with the little rubber valve in front. Years ago, I worked at an airbrush Tee shirt place at the local amusement park; the mask is now more of a comfort than an annoyance for me.
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Old Jan 28, 2012, 08:23 PM
Registered User
Iowa
Joined Dec 2009
102 Posts
I use these and they are great. They don't cost much either. You can get one with filters for a little over $20. The filters also last quite a while. I use it when I sand and when I glue.

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Old Jan 28, 2012, 09:36 PM
On Hiatus.
Tango Juliet's Avatar
Mobile, AL
Joined Aug 2006
1,213 Posts
Hey look Sean, they even come in your color... Magenta!
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Old Jan 28, 2012, 11:01 PM
R2R
Registered User
R2R's Avatar
St Johns, FL, USA
Joined Nov 2009
609 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2motheus View Post
G Don,
Thank you for the concern and good advice.
I probably overstated the bloody nose thing. It's similar to when I'm out in the very cold and dry air, or when I breathe in a lot of dust. Later when I blow my nose or sneeze it's more likely to bleed. I think the CA dries out the membranes when it reacts with the moisture.
I also prefer white glue or WBPU, but if I'm doing an instant repair or I need something to penetrate carbon fiber, I use the CA judiciously. Using the dampened mask pretty much eliminates the irritation.

Question for respirator users:
Is that mask just a really well sealing filter, or do the pads actually catch chemicals in the air?

Tim
onewinch.com
+1 on the charcoal in the filter. I have laminated fiberglass with highly volatile polyester resin with one of these on, and I smelled almost no resin while wearing it. One time, I took the mask off prematurely while still in the laminating room, and almost passed out immediately because of how strong the fumes were. That was testimony to me for how well these 3M filters actually remove VOC's from the air.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 12:09 AM
delete account
atmosteve's Avatar
Australia, QLD, Fraser Island
Joined Nov 2007
3,875 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tango Juliet View Post
Hey look Sean, they even come in your color... Magenta!
Oh yes!


Looks like a good little unit Phillip, should start using them myself for glues but I must confess, I do like the smell of balsa dust.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 12:46 AM
Egads! It's a GIRL!
Lil Stinkpot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Jul 2011
3,321 Posts
Balsa dust makes me sneeze uncontrollably. Smells good, yes, but....
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Last edited by Lil Stinkpot; Jan 29, 2012 at 12:46 AM. Reason: Needed another "O".
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 04:52 AM
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Don Stackhouse's Avatar
United States, OH, Bradford
Joined Jun 2005
4,076 Posts
Dust masks filter out solid particulates, like balsa dust. Respirators, those ones with cannisters, have substances like activated charcoal to absorb chemicals in gas or liquid form, There are different types of cannisters optimized for different chemicals. The cannisters typically have fabric/paper layers to filter out solid particles as well.

Note, the cannisters do have to be changed regularly. Once the cannister material has absorbed its maximum quantity of the chemical threat, it can't absorb any more, so after that the mask doesn't protect against that threat anymore, until you change the cannisters.

If you're wearing the mask and you can smell the fumes (at all), then either it's not fitting properly and you're getting leaks, or else the cannisters are not doing their job, and need to be changed.

With some threats (such as laminating epoxies), there's a lot more to it than just wearing a respirator. You also have to worry about not just breathing, and skin contact, but also skin absorbtion of the fumes. For at least some of these (such as epoxies), latex gloves provide virtually no protection, the chemicals involved go right through it. Latex is good for biological threats, not chemical. For that you need gloves from vinyl, neoprene or urethane. Wear clothing with long sleeves, etc., and be careful about exposed areas like the neck and under your chin, which tends to be an aerodynamically stagnant zone where fumes tend to collect. In the case of epoxy allergies, everyone will eventually get it, some folks just take longer than others.

Once an area of the body accumulates enough of the chemicals in the epoxy to become sensitized, ANY exposure to those chemicals can trigger a reaction. For example, if the area under your chin gets sensitized from fume exposure, touching a contaminated surface (such as a phone someone touched hours before while wearing epoxy-contaminated gloves) will introduce the chemicals via skin absorbtion through the hands. The chemicals will then travel through the bloodstream to the skin under the chin, and trigger a reaction there. Likewise, if you hands are sensitized, fumes absorbed through exposed skin elsewhere, or breathed in and absorbed through the lungs, will travel through the bloodstream and trigger a reaction on the hands, despite wearing double gloves!

The chemicals we work with can be dangerous, and some of the ones that have the least offensive odors can be the worst in terms of toxicity. Be careful!
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Last edited by Don Stackhouse; Jan 29, 2012 at 05:12 AM.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 07:33 AM
I need some building time in t
scaflock's Avatar
United States, AZ, Douglas
Joined Nov 2007
1,617 Posts
Yup! There's no sense in letting the materials we work with in our hobby have a crack at ruining our health! Ventilation, filters and gloves may be uncomfortable but they can save your health in the long run. Like many others here I've developed a great disliking for CA fumes and I came up with a nice little way of venting the fumes out of the building area even in the coldest winter night. I took an old section of hose from a shop vac and fitted a computer fan on the end of it and ran it through the wall to the outside of the garage. Those little fans will move a lot of air and it works well to keep the area clear of fumes without freezing out the work area. The hose is flexible so I can move it where it's needed at the time and is also very quiet while running.

As far as filter masks go... You have to have a good seal against your face for them to work properly. Beards and filter masks just don't work together. I've got one of the full head hoods that has an filtered air supply and have found that it will keep even the most obnoxious fumes out. Sure they cost more but since I usually have a beard of some sort on my face this is what works best in my case.

As to sanding dust, allow me to tell ya'll a story of what happened to me way back when I was doing a lot of work with exotic woods. I was making a jewelery box for a girlfriend out of an African wood known as Paduk. Beautiful wood that starts out orange then oxidizes to a nice brown as it ages. It has a nice smell to it and I wasn't thinking about using a dust mask at the time. Well I got up the next morning and my sinuses felt like someone had poured a bag of cement into my head. When I went to blow my nose it looked like I had one of the worlds worst nose bleeds. I figured out that it was actually being colored but the Paduk sawdust. Needless to say I started wearing a mask while sanding from that point on. sometimes it takes a visual reminder as to why safety gear is important to use even though we're just working on a hobby.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 08:12 AM
ein flugel schplinterizer
seanpcola's Avatar
USA, FL, Pensacola
Joined Sep 2004
5,081 Posts
Don and Jeff beat me to it but I'll repeat it to drive home the safety issue. Those masks are awesome but without a proper seal they are next to useless. In fact they lead to a false sense of security. I've gone through the fitting process many times and am surprised often that my mask was NOT doing it's job. If you are relying on one you MUST check it out carefully. Instead of trying to describe the process I'll search for a link or article and post it here unless someone finds it first.

And yep, facial hair is a big no-no. Back when I was painting aircraft at the Naval Base I was going through my Don Johnson/Miami Vice era (The older guys know what I'm talking about ). After a weekend I would walk into work and be inspected by the shop foreman. A few times I had to grab my electric razor out of the truck and do a quick primping before I was allowed to work.

Mandatory read: http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owad...ARDS&p_id=9780
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Last edited by seanpcola; Jan 29, 2012 at 08:22 AM.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 08:22 AM
Registered User
Don Stackhouse's Avatar
United States, OH, Bradford
Joined Jun 2005
4,076 Posts
One of the worst threats are two-part (catalyzed) paints being applied with a spray gun, things like Aerogrip, or Polane polyurethane paint.

Ever notice how oil spreads out into a film on water? If you get a whiff of one of these paints, the droplets go down into your lungs, and when they hit the moist surfaces of the alveoli (the tiny air sacks where the oxygen and carbon dioxide exchange with the blood occurs), they spread out into a film, then cure into a hard plastic film that won't come out. It's like plastic-wrapping your lungs from the inside. The result can be fatal suffocation within minutes.

A typical example is if someone is all suited up, working in a spray booth, gets done and starts unsuiting, then notices a spot they missed. They go back in the booth just for a moment to do some touch-up, get a sniff or two of the spray, and get to go home from work to their family in a bag.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 09:02 AM
I need some building time in t
scaflock's Avatar
United States, AZ, Douglas
Joined Nov 2007
1,617 Posts
In a nutshell the fastest way to test for a good seal on your mask is to put your hands over the air inlets and see if you can still draw a breath. If you can... It's not fitted right or you need to shave.

Another material that I used to use was Boron filament. Great stuff but toxic. You have to use a lot of care in handling it. While it's not toxic through skin absorption, if you get a sliver of it stuck in you while working with it you're going to be hating life for a long time! I've seen foam core wings that you can stand on without them breaking made with only a dozen or so strands of it, but the hazard of working with it must be gauged against just how important that strength is to the over all design of the model.

As much as I love this hobby I don't feel that it's worth my health or life.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 03:22 PM
delete account
atmosteve's Avatar
Australia, QLD, Fraser Island
Joined Nov 2007
3,875 Posts
Thats it, I'm giving this hobby up. Seeya.


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Old Jan 29, 2012, 03:52 PM
ein flugel schplinterizer
seanpcola's Avatar
USA, FL, Pensacola
Joined Sep 2004
5,081 Posts
Gets me thinking about everything I've put into my bod and the forces I've subjected it too from motorcycles, skateboards, sports, and a long list of other injuries. Probably CA fumes are just a blip on the radar.

Just kidding. Kids, CA fumes are bad.
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Old Jan 29, 2012, 04:25 PM
Egads! It's a GIRL!
Lil Stinkpot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Jul 2011
3,321 Posts
I won this round of 2m woody fledgling. Woo hoo! Of course, I also lost the same miserably.

I got two pop offs, one I landed immediately right on the tow ring, and the second I tried to duplicate the first, and instead came in hot & fast, and wound up in the goalie net. Scoooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrre! No damage. My tasks were 3, 5, & 7, and my times were 1:30, 1:40, & 1:20. There was only one other plane competing in my class; his unpowered (plane OFF) launch was short and spectacular. By default, I won my class, and lost at the same time.
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