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Old Jan 13, 2012, 11:04 AM
life long racing nut & modeler
granada don's Avatar
Granada Hills Ca.
Joined Nov 2009
1,919 Posts
So little Time

Somebody is really playing a big trick on me, as at 70' last year i only got 6 months time but it said 12 months on the calender, and each year i get less building time sure is unfair!!

G Don
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 11:28 AM
Making wood fly since 2007
Windependence's Avatar
USA, MN, Rochester
Joined Mar 2008
2,448 Posts
Hi Scott,

The Aquila is a time tested model. I have never had the opportunity to see one first hand but I have never heard a bad word spoken about them. A while back I was able to come into possession of a set of plans for the fuselage and tail for the standard size Aquila along with a full set of plans for a Drifter II. Like I said before so many planes, so little time.

I do want to build a sailplane specifically for NOS events. My Riser and Raven are both too new to qualify, the Riser by only 6 months. Right now I am thinking maybe either the Aquila or possibly a Windfree. Does anybody know if vintage sailplanes can be flown in NOS events? A Fillon's Evander, a Ted Evan's Avis or even a Nibbio would be fun planes to compete with. You definitely would not confuse them with other planes in your round.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 01:28 PM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
Joined Jan 2011
1,685 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Windependence View Post
Hi Scott,

The Aquila is a time tested model. I have never had the opportunity to see one first hand but I have never heard a bad word spoken about them. A while back I was able to come into possession of a set of plans for the fuselage and tail for the standard size Aquila along with a full set of plans for a Drifter II. Like I said before so many planes, so little time.

I do want to build a sailplane specifically for NOS events. My Riser and Raven are both too new to qualify, the Riser by only 6 months. Right now I am thinking maybe either the Aquila or possibly a Windfree. Does anybody know if vintage sailplanes can be flown in NOS events? A Fillon's Evander, a Ted Evan's Avis or even a Nibbio would be fun planes to compete with. You definitely would not confuse them with other planes in your round.
To speak to the Nibbio, I have a request in with one of the SAM chapters for a full set of build plans that they have, (said to be 2 large sheets). Just waiting on them to get scanned in and sent. Keep an eye on the Turbine - Nibbio Group Design thread as when I get them, they will be posted there for anyone interested. By all accounts, the Nibbio and Turbine are great fliers and Windependence is correct, you will know them when you see them in the air. Their fine looking birds with Big A tails!

I'll drop a note here when I get the plans up.
One could really "get their wood on" with one of those.

Mark

Edit: Windfree plans can be found on Outerzone - http://www.outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=1637 If you don't have them already.
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 12:28 AM
Egads! It's a GIRL!
Lil Stinkpot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Jul 2011
3,288 Posts
Just how bad of an idea is it to run the antenna (2.4) between the servos, along the bottom? The tip will pop out a couple inches behind them, somewhere near the ballast box.

I moved the Rx for the GL forward to s spot behind the battery to make room for the ballast box. Otherwise I would have to build a sort of subway for all the cables and carp going back to the Rx, behind the tow hook. I want it forward.

Did I make an oopsie by moving it?
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 02:05 AM
ahh crap! crunch..
atmosteve's Avatar
Australia, QLD, Fraser Island
Joined Nov 2007
3,873 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Stackhouse View Post
Steve, I'd say that the potential for that is certainly there, but if the model designer does even a little of their homework, it could be a pussycat. The Petrel might actually be a good application for a Horten-style bell shaped lift distribution ("BSLD"), which would eliminate adverse yaw, reduce the bending moments on the spar (and therefore the structural weight), and make it essentially immune to tip stall. For more on the BSLD, check out:

www.nurflugel.com.

If you're a real "glutton for mathematical punishment", try the "technical papers" section.

Bill and Bunny Kuhlman have also addressed the BSLD in their "On the Wing" column in RCSD.
I'll defer to the above right away Don!
Good god no, I am flat out doing a quotient without reaching for a claculator these days, all I know now is riding down a highway miles from nowhere!


Quicky, that line had me really smiling.
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 05:37 AM
ahh crap! crunch..
atmosteve's Avatar
Australia, QLD, Fraser Island
Joined Nov 2007
3,873 Posts
DonW (sorry Don S), with the new wings, are you going with the original carbon and cross brace mods again? could be that the strongest thermalling O3 wings to come off a bench were yours, I'd sure have them for trial.
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 07:37 AM
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United States, OH, Bradford
Joined Jun 2005
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The new wing has been through several iterations of structural concepts. What it is now is quite different from the others in the series.

We knew that a 3-meter sailplane would have to handle winch launching. That meant dealing with 300 lbs of towline tension, and enough torsional stiffness to avoid flutter at zoom launching airspeeds.

We considered using carbon spar caps. Various torsional stiffeners were considered, including D-tube sheeting, or diagonal braces of balsa, as well as ply. We also considered a carbon tube tail boom. However, when the French started building their new giant super-jumbo airliner, they drove the price of carbon out the roof, and a carbon spar wing would be too expensive to meet our price targets.

So, back to the drawing board (or my computer screen in this case). We found that to meet our strength requirements using conventional spruce or basswood would require making the wing almost solid wood! The spars would need to be solid, for the full depth of the airfoil, and about 5" chord. It was a classic case of "you can't get there from here."

So, we looked at other approaches. We found one that works. The wing is made entirely from wood, although not necessarily the kind of wood we're used to seeing in model airplanes. The only carbon in the entire airplane is the wing joiner rods. The spar by itself (which is hollow, BTW) is more stiff in torsion by itself than a conventional D-tube, so no D-tube sheeting or diagonal bracing is needed.

I am considering an "electric-only" version, trading off bending strength for lower weight, but I'm worried about what would happen if someone tried to put one of those on a sailplane. Still thinking about it. The plane is big enough that the weight of the stronger wing still results in a good wing loading, even for the electric version, so it might not be necessary.

The fuselage and tail had strength concerns as well, and carbon for the tail boom would again be too expensive. Instead we went with a box fuselage very similar to the basic box we use in the other Chrysali, but with longerons from the same wood species as the caps for the wing spars. The tail is built-up, and uses that same material for its spar caps.

For windy days we're considering swapping the carbon joiner rods for steel.

The end result is a truly "winchable woodie".
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 08:10 AM
ahh crap! crunch..
atmosteve's Avatar
Australia, QLD, Fraser Island
Joined Nov 2007
3,873 Posts
Don S, perhaps it is time for a break?... a holiday, a vacation, a wild romp, a something that has nothing to do with fluid dynamics, aerodynamics!

A benevolent fund could be in order.. (just kidding)
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 08:39 AM
I need some building time in t
scaflock's Avatar
United States, AZ, Douglas
Joined Nov 2007
1,617 Posts
Well guys another B-day has come and gone and the years really do seem to be getting shorter. I've resolved that this year is going to be a LOT better than the last couple of them. Goals I've set include getting myself moved out to Arizona, buying a place with at least 10 acres so I can put in a flying field and getting the prototype for the ASP-XC built and tested. I ran out a tape measure and have come to see that it's going to be a MAJOR monster of a sailplane. I've gotten the wings and tail feathers all drawn up and only have the fuselage left to get on paper (full size building plans).

We're clearing out a lot of excess things now that will not be making the move and I'm trying to find the bottom of the garage/shop that has just over 20 years of accumulation built up. It's amazing how balsa saw dust will find its way into every nook and cranny over the years. My shop vac is going into shock!
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 09:08 AM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
Joined Jan 2011
1,685 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Stackhouse View Post
SNIP

The fuselage and tail had strength concerns as well, and carbon for the tail boom would again be too expensive. Instead we went with a box fuselage very similar to the basic box we use in the other Chrysali, but with longerons from the same wood species as the caps for the wing spars. The tail is built-up, and uses that same material for its spar caps.

For windy days we're considering swapping the carbon joiner rods for steel.

The end result is a truly "winchable woodie".
OK, this begs the question... What "wood species"? That post has me thinking everything from Paulownia to Locust, though I don't think it would be Madrone. Maybe Hickory?

Mark
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 09:21 AM
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Don Stackhouse's Avatar
United States, OH, Bradford
Joined Jun 2005
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I could tell you, but then I'd have to...
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 09:41 AM
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Don Stackhouse's Avatar
United States, OH, Bradford
Joined Jun 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atmosteve View Post
Don S, perhaps it is time for a break?... a holiday, a vacation, a wild romp, a something that has nothing to do with fluid dynamics, aerodynamics or forums?? ...
I've always tried to arrange things so that what I do for a job is what I'd be doing for a hobby if it wasn't my job. That has pros and cons, but overall it seems to work.

I forgot what a "vacation" is, but I hear that some folks actually "take" them, whatever that means.

I just skip around between my various "jobs", some of which do not seem to be aerodynamic (fiddle and general stringed instrument repair, manufacture and design), although in actual practice they do involve elements of it, and have even triggered insghts into aircraft design and aerodynamics.
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 09:43 AM
Just call me crash for short
Quick61's Avatar
United States, OH, The Plains
Joined Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by Don Stackhouse View Post
I could tell you, but then I'd have to...
Alright, trade secrets, I can respect that. After all, I wouldn't want to have to be....
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 10:58 AM
≡LSF8067≡
dwells's Avatar
Bedford, TX
Joined Oct 2007
2,840 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by atmosteve View Post
Don, with the new wings, are you going with the original carbon and cross brace mods again? could be that the strongest thermalling O3 wings to come off a bench were yours, I'd sure have them for trial.
Hi Mr. Mac!

Yes Sir, I'm going to build them the same. Before the accident, I was really cranking up the pressure on the Hi-Start (22-24lbs) and was getting bad ass launches with no flex at all. Obviously, this was do to the spar system and not the crossing but also had zero flutter and that could relate to the crossing, don't know. Ray's wing design is hefty and prolly doesn't need them anyway. I will do the horizontal webs again, easier and more accurate to cut to length and get a precision fit. It adds stiffness to the spar and may help the flex. Whether that's good or bad, don't know, have read the pros and cons.

I'm so damn tied up with other have-to's right now, I haven't even started. But that's OK, I can still fly and may get the Spirit charged up for the morning. The weather is beautiful right now and I should be on the field. Glad you're back home, buddy, what next on the bench for you?
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Old Jan 14, 2012, 11:21 AM
Egads! It's a GIRL!
Lil Stinkpot's Avatar
United States, CA, San Jose
Joined Jul 2011
3,288 Posts
That mystery wood sounds like bamboo.
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