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Old Dec 15, 2010, 09:42 AM
≡LSF8067≡
dwells's Avatar
Bedford, TX
Joined Oct 2007
2,840 Posts
WHERE'S MY MERLYN !!....

Just kiddin, Ray. Is there any way that you could send your plans to AMA and have them manage print requests for you? Seems like they have a lot of this going on anyway and might be good for both companies. Just a thought...
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 09:44 AM
≡LSF8067≡
dwells's Avatar
Bedford, TX
Joined Oct 2007
2,840 Posts
That's ok guys, go ahead and give me the little daggers. It only hurts for a little while...
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 09:45 AM
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Jim Deck's Avatar
Valparaiso, IN
Joined Apr 2005
736 Posts
A Woody field of dreams

Woody fans would do well to look at the entry list for the Woody event for the 2011 SWC. It should be a real hoot. I hope they're blessed with terrific weather. Watching Mark Smith of Windfree fame do spot landings with a rudder-elevator ship is worth the trip.
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 01:01 PM
Silent Wings
Oldcoot2's Avatar
Amarillo, TX
Joined Aug 2005
670 Posts
Don
Little daggers? Hell man, that's getting off too easy.
I was thinkin' more like 15 turns of rusty barbed "war" and a couple of cockle burs here and there.
G
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 01:45 PM
Torn 'twixt buildin' and flyin
TheNightowl's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Oct 2007
7,150 Posts
I understand where Ray is coming from.

But I'm one of those guys who builds mostly from plans, rather than kits. Part of that is because I have a LOT of plans. I buy plans to read and look at, even if I know I'm not going to build a particular model. In fact, I'm probably one who has asked Ray at some point if he sells plans. (Of course, with me, he would have said "Sorry, no," and that would have been the end of it. I don't complain when people don't. After all, it's still their intellectual property rights we're talking about, and they can handle them however they see fit.)

Also, from Ray's description, he's a bit in the same boat I am. It's a 20-mile drive to the nearest town of more than 300 people, and they only have a population of 750! It's 30 miles to a town of about 10,000 people, and they don't have a Kinkos. If someone wanted copies of something I was drawing, and I didn't have any on hand, they might wait awhile before I made another print run (which I might actually have to travel about 100 miles to do, unless I actually paid, not just for copies, but for printing, and there is a difference).

That being said, however, yeah, I kinda wish Ray would, next time he does a print run, run an extra 20 or 30 and offer his plans on perhaps a limited basis. I would see it as one more (small) income stream. But, still, it's his perogative to do with his drawings what he wishes.

And face it, I don't know how many designs Ray is handling now, but 20 drawings of each one, if he has 10, and he's got a couple hundred dollars tied up then in inventory. Not to mention storage space and mailing costs. Does he run out and buy a mailing tube every time someone wants it in a tube? Or is that something ELSE he's footing the bill for inventory for? For some of us little guys, that's a chunk of change to be sitting around that might or might not get sold. And it's pretty much an "illiquid" asset. Resale for it ain't near worth what it cost.

Ray hit a number of points about why he doesn't consider it worth his time to offer plans, but I thought I would just point out that what he mentioned aren't even close to all the considerations.

Edited to add: I just went back and saw where Ray says he is handling over 30 kit designs right now! If he makes 20 extra copies of each of his kit plans, you're talking about 600 LARGE plan sheets that have to be stored... somewhere. And labeled. And kept separate. And and how complete are the plans without the written instructions he mentioned? (Sorry Ray, but I've not bought one of your kits yet, so I can't answer this one.) Does he need extra copies of those too? Again, that's a lot to have sitting around "in case" someone orders it.

Nightowl
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 03:19 PM
≡LSF8067≡
dwells's Avatar
Bedford, TX
Joined Oct 2007
2,840 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldcoot2 View Post
Don
Little daggers? Hell man, that's getting off too easy.
I was thinkin' more like 15 turns of rusty barbed "war" and a couple of cockle burs here and there.
G
You old coot, you ! I can tell you're feeling better, good to see you're getting back into the swing . Now listen, you need to save some of dem hydro's and put in your flight box just in case your neck gets sore the next time you catch one of those boomers. A flight box should contain everything needed for on-field repair (that includes you) .
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 03:27 PM
Hot Dawg Glider Pilot
schrederman's Avatar
United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
7,743 Posts
Well... some thangs are actually beyond fixin'... just sayin'...
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Old Dec 15, 2010, 08:19 PM
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dwells's Avatar
Bedford, TX
Joined Oct 2007
2,840 Posts
This is probably known and old-hat to you guys, or maybe I'm in left field...again...and it's not. Well, anyhow, holding tight tolerances with balsa is hard to do as opposed to other materials, at least for me. One swipe of 400 can change your stuff real quick. Wrapping moneykote around fitted, functional/removable components and surfaces on their edges doesn't work for me. Areas such as canopy interfaces to the fuse and other areas just don't fit right with film overlapped. The small wrinkles that you get bending the stuff over the edges causes gap issues.

What I've done is to cover the exterior surfaces only, no overlap in those areas. I believe that most feel you need that overlap to keep the film from peeling loose from wear and tear. Here I go again with BalsaRite . If you coat those edges well, you can shear the film right to the edge and iron it down and it won't peel. You get the fit that you sanded in originally and save .0002 grams of weight from the extra film . Just a thought and some pix to add to this mess.
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Old Dec 16, 2010, 05:25 PM
Silent Wings
Oldcoot2's Avatar
Amarillo, TX
Joined Aug 2005
670 Posts
Don
Left field? That's a bunch of bovine scatology, pard. Your ideas and persnicketyness are what it's all about. Looks mighty clean to these old
eyes, and your detail to your electronic layouts, etc ain't too shabby either!
G
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Old Dec 16, 2010, 05:43 PM
Registered User
United States, IN, Fort Wayne
Joined Apr 2003
1,571 Posts
A star is discovered ... Great job Don !

Ray
Sky Bench ... Woodys Forever
http://www.skybench.com
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Old Dec 16, 2010, 07:32 PM
life long racing nut & modeler
granada don's Avatar
Granada Hills Ca.
Joined Nov 2009
1,859 Posts
Hi Don

In the past when i had a sheeted center over the wing joiner area [ Paragon ] i glassed it too , then i had a heck of a time making the monokote look good over the glass.
Can you put the Balsarite over fiberglass, if so that would help make that monokote look a bunch better on the wing.

Thanks
Don
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Old Dec 16, 2010, 08:16 PM
≡LSF8067≡
dwells's Avatar
Bedford, TX
Joined Oct 2007
2,840 Posts
Thanks fellas, I wasn't fishin for complement, just an idea . We'll see how it plays out in the Texas heat .

Don, I don't think BalsaRite would be fitting over resin. It's kinda a resin itself and may F things up if it's an incompat. They have it for film and for fabric. I've never covered glass before. I would think to sand the surface with 800 and iron it on. I think that a high resin surface, would react to heat and flow along with the adhesive of the film giving maybe a moddled look?
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Old Dec 18, 2010, 11:01 PM
Wood Chucker
Lacquerhead's Avatar
USA, TX, Allen
Joined Nov 2009
1,497 Posts
The Lone Woodie

We had our first test run of a ALES contest here in Dallas today. If you don't count Barry Kennedy's Electron F5J ship as a woodie then I was the only woodie representin'. There were plenty of compliments of the Chrysalis 2M which made me right proud that I managed to mostly follow instructions and not glue my fingers to every other rib. Re-covering the wing was worth the effort for sure. I fought with the Monokote but the Econocoat and I are friends. EC left me with a much more pleasing and consistent surface but I digress.

In the field full of Radians and Barry's test ship I managed to hold my own for the most part. Half the time I was the first down but through no fault of the airframe. I discovered that the adhesive on the bottom of the velco isn't really adhesive but more a suggestion that the fuzzy stuff stay more or less where I left it. The motor battery was flopping around changing CG for me. Never at the right time or in the right direction of course. With 10 minute rounds I still managed to get several four minute flights and a 9 minute flight only bested by a Radian with Jimmy Mac at the sticks. Having Club Prez Dan coaching me didn't hurt one bit. His coaching and verification of what I thought I was seeing as lift and sink helped a lot. I'm slowly learning but I'm having a blast doing it.

Did I mention I really love the Chrysalis? My flights today may (hopefully) sell a few more kits. I heard a lot of "Man, that's a pretty ship." and "That sure does fly well" followed quickly by Prez saying "I'm going to have to fly that, put it in a thermal first."
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Old Dec 18, 2010, 11:56 PM
Hi-Start Man
olyman's Avatar
Texas Panhandle
Joined Dec 2004
100 Posts
ALES ? And this stands for? Sounds like fun. I have been flying my old Airtronics Eclipse -E. 2M sailplane with an Astro 05G, 7-1700 Nicads. Going to try a 2-cell LiPo 2500 in place of the nicads next. Enjoy playing with it and have had some good flights.

From what I have seen and read the Chrysalis 2M should make a really nice E powered sailplane, has plenty of wing area. I think the wing is also under cambered?
A.B.

Altitude limited electric sailplane?
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Last edited by olyman; Dec 19, 2010 at 12:01 AM. Reason: add info
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Old Dec 19, 2010, 03:13 AM
LSF303 / AMA Life Member
tkallev's Avatar
USA, IL, Wheeling
Joined Jan 2003
3,091 Posts
Ales

Yes, Altitude Limited Electric Soaring.

Check this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1330889

tk
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