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Old May 11, 2008, 04:19 PM
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IBWALT's Avatar
United States, CA, Los Angeles
Joined Nov 2005
1,003 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by histarter
In TD the top and bottom spoiler would be very effective in minimizing the effects of crosswind gusts on the poly design.
Not to mention against the current AMA rules in regards to spoilers. 3.1.6.c. Spoilers and/or air brakes must extend only above the top surface of the wing
when deployed.

Walt
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Old May 11, 2008, 06:45 PM
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atmosteve's Avatar
Australia, QLD, Fraser Island
Joined Nov 2007
3,875 Posts
Ray quickly returned my email about the Oly III being sent to aus. This could be a heads up to Aussie flyers looking for this kind of RES sailplane, I'm not sure if there are many Oly III's flying in this country?

Price shipped to Australia is $206AU- the aussie dollar is overvalued at present.

The Marauder lands on your door here for close to $300. Given that I'm between jobs at the moment, and the small fortune I've recently spent on slopers, I'll give the Oly a try.

Thanks again everyone for your input, advice and PM's. I'm sure I would be happy with either sailplane, either would be perfect for blowing out the thermalling cobwebs, better than my EZG anyway! On this occasion its a dollars and sense decision.

Until it arrives I'll be busy reading up on the build, I'm open to advice still.
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Old May 11, 2008, 08:47 PM
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Dallas TX
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Rules do not bar versitility

Quote:
Originally Posted by IBWALT
Not to mention against the current AMA rules in regards to spoilers. 3.1.6.c. Spoilers and/or air brakes must extend only above the top surface of the wing
when deployed.

Walt
Correct Walt, I hope to be clever enough to figure how to make the top spoiler the master spoiler, and add the bottom spoiler on for TD events.

Good choice, Ray's OlyIII should work well for you.
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Old May 11, 2008, 08:49 PM
Yep, Naza-controlled Tricopter
tonyestep's Avatar
St. Louis
Joined Apr 2002
1,454 Posts
The Oly 3 is a splendid design job by Ray. On his web site there is some info about adding carbon caps to the spars. For a plane that size, the proper size carbon caps are .042 on top and .021 on bottom (at the root -- can be tapered).

To taper the supplied wood to fit the carbon, use the trick recommended by Dick Williamson of MIT. Epoxy the carbon to the spar using laminating epoxy thickened with cabosil, making sure that both wood and carbon are thoroughly wetted and there are absolutely no gaps in the bond. Then lay two pieces of spruce the same thickness as the spar wood on either side of the spar, and put the spar in between, carbon side down. Using the other spruce as a sanding guide, sand the spar flush.
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Old May 12, 2008, 12:07 PM
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Russian Federation, Sakha, Yakutsk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBWALT
Not to mention against the current AMA rules in regards to spoilers. 3.1.6.c. Spoilers and/or air brakes must extend only above the top surface of the wing
when deployed.

Walt
As long as the spoilers aren't on the trailing edge, ie. mid-chord or so I feel it should be allowed.

They're still spoilers (more like an airbrake) and provide no other benefit.
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Old May 12, 2008, 08:50 PM
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atmosteve's Avatar
Australia, QLD, Fraser Island
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Our MAAA operates competition to FAI guidelines, and from what I can gather today only spoilers are allolwed for F3J here, I need to attend an event and ask questions but they are few and far between even now.

Unfortunately guys we have no RES class that I knof of in Aus, but RES sailplanes would be elligable for open class TD events I guess. If any Australian competitors want to chip in here and let me know what the situation is I would welcome it.
Steve.
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Old May 12, 2008, 10:03 PM
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Dallas TX
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Bold Suggestions

Quote:
Originally Posted by atmosteve
Our MAAA operates competition to FAI guidelines, and from what I can gather today only spoilers are allolwed for F3J here, I need to attend an event and ask questions but they are few and far between even now.

Unfortunately guys we have no RES class that I knof of in Aus, but RES sailplanes would be elligable for open class TD events I guess. If any Australian competitors want to chip in here and let me know what the situation is I would welcome it.
Steve.
Frogchief and atmosteve have the right idea. To many events dilute interest, especially if seperate rules are employed for each event. TD the event was supposed to be duration. F3J, and RES is also duration events. Aim the rules for RES and fly them all together. Since there is definition of class, allow multiple entry of different classes, i.e. a pilot can fly 1 ea RES, 1 ea TD, and 1 ea F3J. However, regardless of the entry class, the pilot that scores the highest wins.
A simpler more dramatic contest, especially if launch and landings are looser.
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Old May 12, 2008, 10:59 PM
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United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Nov 2002
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So... submit a rules change request to have bottom spoilers allowed. In full-scale, the bottoms are considered "dive brakes"... just mentioned as a point of interest.

Jack
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Old May 13, 2008, 01:10 AM
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Russian Federation, Sakha, Yakutsk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schrederman
So... submit a rules change request to have bottom spoilers allowed. In full-scale, the bottoms are considered "dive brakes"... just mentioned as a point of interest.

Jack
Will do.

Also; yeah, the Marauders spoiler / divebrake setup always kinda reminded me of the old Dauntless dive bombers. I should paint the backs of them red...
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Old May 13, 2008, 01:49 AM
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Australia, QLD, Fraser Island
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I have sent an email or two out to a couple of our seniour soaring event co-ordinators in this country, hopefully it will clear up any class design rule requirments if the RES gliders can fly in unlimited TD events.

Heck, for all I know, i can get away with popping a shute out the tail! I think this would be an appropriate handicap allowance if a big slow woodie were allowed to sail with hot F3 ships, don't you?
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Old May 13, 2008, 04:12 AM
Registered User
Sydney, NSW, Australia
Joined Jan 2005
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Hi Steve,

Quote:
Originally Posted by atmosteve
Our MAAA operates competition to FAI guidelines, and from what I can gather today only spoilers are allolwed for F3J here, I need to attend an event and ask questions but they are few and far between even now.

Unfortunately guys we have no RES class that I knof of in Aus, but RES sailplanes would be elligable for open class TD events I guess. If any Australian competitors want to chip in here and let me know what the situation is I would welcome it.
Steve.
F3J is flown using full-house gliders, normally - rudder/elevator/ailerons/flaps. I don't think there is a limit to the number of channels you use, but you're not allowed to use systems like picollarios and such (report on the height and thermal activity from the aircraft during flight). You are allowed to use a flight logger - but you can only view the results after the flight...

You can use spoilers as well. Some people fly F3J with 2m R/E or RES, but they're usually at a considerable disadvantage.

You'll be surprised at the number of RES comps here in Australia - they're usually a sub-class of a bigger open-class competition. The Armidale competition (flown each Australia Day long weekend) has a RES sub-class (scored and prized separate to Open Class), which is flown at the same time as Open Class. I think Jerilderie has one too. The Muswellbrook Open Thermal comp has a sub-class for RES.

If you're game, you can fly RES in Open Class events, but you'll be at a disadvantage. The Open Class gliders are (usually) full-house top-of-the-line moulded competition gliders worth $2K or more, and are much more responsive and easier to control than RES. With that said, you could still win a comp with a RES if you know how to fly your plane well.

Come out to some events, have a fly, learn to fly, have fun, socialise with us, and I'm sure you'll get hooked with it all again, and want more...

I think I have about 19 gliders now, in about 3 years of collecting and flying

- bec
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Old May 13, 2008, 04:19 AM
Registered User
Sydney, NSW, Australia
Joined Jan 2005
971 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by atmosteve
I have sent an email or two out to a couple of our seniour soaring event co-ordinators in this country, hopefully it will clear up any class design rule requirments if the RES gliders can fly in unlimited TD events.

Heck, for all I know, i can get away with popping a shute out the tail! I think this would be an appropriate handicap allowance if a big slow woodie were allowed to sail with hot F3 ships, don't you?
No, I don't think a drag chute is allowed.

One rule about things sticking out the bottom is that the only thing allowed is the tow hook - so no sharks teeth or "skegs" allowed (that's cheating...). I don't know whether downward spoilers would be legal or not - flaps can come down 90 degrees during landing...
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Old May 13, 2008, 04:47 AM
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Hervey Bay, Sunny Qld, Australia
Joined Jun 2001
1,773 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by atmosteve
Thanks guys for your suggestions.

Hi Glen, almost anywhere some natural lift can be found. I often travel for it
Sorry to hijack your thread, Steve.

I know 4 Steve's so far on the Fraser Coast. 2 I can rule out as I know that they don't fly gliders. You know my name so I must be close to the other 2 . Which club do you fly at??? Maryborough, Hervey Bay, Tin Can ...etc??
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Old May 13, 2008, 05:37 AM
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atmosteve's Avatar
Australia, QLD, Fraser Island
Joined Nov 2007
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Thanks Becsta, thats very encouraging. I'm not serious about competing RES, but I might as well have a go if there is exception for them because that was the type of glider I competed with in TD some years ago, we used to have a fantastic time competing and socialising. I have my eye on a couple of new F3B/J gliders for competition, but all in good time I'd like to take a low tech approach to competition first and see whats going on. I've only been back into RC gliding for 9 months, and have 7 gliders already! Its a worry..

I wasn't serious about the chute.

Glen, maybe I will see you at the HB club meeting on Thursday?
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Old May 13, 2008, 05:46 AM
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Hervey Bay, Sunny Qld, Australia
Joined Jun 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by atmosteve
Glen, maybe I will see you at the HB club meeting on Thursday?
Damn ..... do we have a club meeting this Thursday ? General meeting I guess. I'll be there. Oh wait a minute ..... will this be at the field or at the CWA hall? If at the field, ... no (working). If at the hall ... a + yes.
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