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Old Dec 02, 2012, 12:09 PM
3d NOOBular
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Originally Posted by TimmyC View Post
I was working with that yesterday but it was just too windy. I might try it again today with less expo. I might even lower my rates a little.
Don't lower the rates on elevator or rudder. No big deal if you want to turn the ailerons down a little.
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 01:35 PM
I fly, therefore, I crash!!!
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San Jose, CA
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Originally Posted by Mr Big Head View Post
Lowering your rates is kinda of like adding expo. So if you lower your expo and your rates it may feel the same. Except for the last part of the stick movement. Bam!
Sorry to disagree with you, but lowering the rates, is not the same as increasing expo. When you lower your rates, you just don't get as much total movement, but the movement you do get is linear(if no expo is being used). Expo on the other hand gives you a "soft center" with more movement at the extremes... That is why most people use low and high rates, low for "cruising" and mild aerobatics/precision, high for 3D.

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Old Dec 02, 2012, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by brathanke View Post
A really high expo setting starts to act like an on/off switch. You will get nothing and then wham... everything at once.

i cant recall any movement where you need to have stick for prolonged periods of time making small corrections in that 50-60-70% zone where expo is acting like that( maybe only elevator, but thats a feel thing) you either use 10-20% of travel where expo softens feel, either bang the stick in the corner where expo doesnt matter....

and you know, manuals are there for reason, if you just learn, follow the instructions... and first thing to learn is to just feel the plane and understand that you dont have to use all 80* elevator or 45* aeleron...

its kinda like driving a bicycle (sorry, i know,spelling ) ... you dont think, ok, now im turning my weel 10* left, now 15* right, you just feel it... and that is going to come with time...

and for the record... i love my slick on 70% expo all around, its so nice and tame....

and i love my ef 48 mxs on 45-50 expo all around... its so wild!
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 02:06 PM
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and for those who thinks that any of 3dhs, EF or pa planes is too twitcy on recommended setup.... you just make and experiment, get pre-as3x umx 1 or 2 cell micro plane, don't set any expo and fly only that one for 1 month on full rates... (especially in 5-10mph wind) coming from umx beast v1 and sukhoi my 1.5 buck huck felt so nice, big, tame and floaty on its maiden...
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 02:56 PM
Gone Huckin'
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Originally Posted by rimaarts View Post
and for those who thinks that any of 3dhs, EF or pa planes is too twitcy on recommended setup.... you just make and experiment, get pre-as3x umx 1 or 2 cell micro plane, don't set any expo and fly only that one for 1 month on full rates... (especially in 5-10mph wind) coming from umx beast v1 and sukhoi my 1.5 buck huck felt so nice, big, tame and floaty on its maiden...
LOL!! Absolutely.
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SteveT. View Post
Sorry to disagree with you, but lowering the rates, is not the same as increasing expo. When you lower your rates, you just don't get as much total movement, but the movement you do get is linear(if no expo is being used). Expo on the other hand gives you a "soft center" with more movement at the extremes... That is why most people use low and high rates, low for "cruising" and mild aerobatics/precision, high for 3D.

SteveT
You do not have to be sorry to disagree with me. It's all good. But you could read between the lines. I said "Kinda like adding Expo" If you had 45 degrees of travel there would be a certain amount of movement of the control surface correlating to the movement of the stick. Lower the degree of travel to say 25 degrees and your control surface will move less with the same amount of stick movement. Operational word is kinda....... You are of course literally correct.
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr Big Head View Post
You do not have to be sorry to disagree with me. It's all good. But you could read between the lines. I said "Kinda like adding Expo" If you had 45 degrees of travel there would be a certain amount of movement of the control surface correlating to the movement of the stick. Lower the degree of travel to say 25 degrees and your control surface will move less with the same amount of stick movement. Operational word is kinda....... You are of course literally correct.
I agree with both of you, how's that?
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by rimaarts View Post
i cant recall any movement where you need to have stick for prolonged periods of time making small corrections in that 50-60-70% zone where expo is acting like that( maybe only elevator, but thats a feel thing) you either use 10-20% of travel where expo softens feel, either bang the stick in the corner where expo doesnt matter....

and you know, manuals are there for reason, if you just learn, follow the instructions... and first thing to learn is to just feel the plane and understand that you dont have to use all 80* elevator or 45* aeleron...

its kinda like driving a bicycle (sorry, i know,spelling ) ... you dont think, ok, now im turning my weel 10* left, now 15* right, you just feel it... and that is going to come with time...

and for the record... i love my slick on 70% expo all around, its so nice and tame....

and i love my ef 48 mxs on 45-50 expo all around... its so wild!
Must not do much harrier, hovering, or harrier rolling. I do a whole lot of things where the sticks are in the mid range of movement all the time. smooth 3d requires adjustment in every part of the stick. If you are just a tumble junky then I can agree with your claim.

Again, expo is a personal feeling thing and everyone is different. Your 70% expo would feel like I was trudging through slippery mud since I like much lower expo settings. I also try to fly some precision on high rates so the expo needs to match flying that isn't just stick banging. Someone could feel the plane is twitchy from either too little or too much expo. The point I'm trying to make is that a person should try different stuff until they have it how they like it.

Nothing induces wing rock in harrier like too much expo on rudder because MOST of your adjustments are going to be in the MID RANGE where the expo setting acting like an on/off switch is going to make life difficult. Just ask Wamsy or Joe or watch some vids of really good 3d flying with this conversation in mind.

Hope this helps.
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 05:56 PM
inverted-i-fly
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Joe runs 55-65% expo on the rudder
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 06:07 PM
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I know I am going to be messing with my expo after reading this. I really hope it helps!


"Nothing induces wing rock in harrier like too much expo on rudder because MOST of your adjustments are going to be in the MID RANGE where the expo setting acting like an on/off switch is going to make life difficult. Just ask Wamsy or Joe or watch some vids of really good 3d flying with this conversation in mind.

Hope this helps."
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 06:10 PM
Gone Huckin'
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I think I'm running 65 or so most of the way around. But on my larger planes I have a little more. Just depends on the plane for me. I think my 48" Edge is more like 60 all the way around.
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Old Dec 02, 2012, 06:22 PM
inverted-i-fly
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United States, CA, Petaluma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Big Head View Post
I know I am going to be messing with my expo after reading this. I really hope it helps!


"Nothing induces wing rock in harrier like too much expo on rudder because MOST of your adjustments are going to be in the MID RANGE where the expo setting acting like an on/off switch is going to make life difficult. Just ask Wamsy or Joe or watch some vids of really good 3d flying with this conversation in mind.

Hope this helps."
Nothing induces wing rock like overusing your rudder in harrier, bank slightly with your ailerons and feed in rudder to turn, using opposite ailerons to straight back out. good video from Bonedoc and Ben

BoneDoc's 3D Clinic #1d: Harrier Tips from Ben Fisher of 3D Hobby Shop (9 min 1 sec)
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 12:24 AM
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Originally Posted by brathanke View Post
Must not do much harrier, hovering, or harrier rolling. I do a whole lot of things where the sticks are in the mid range of movement all the time. smooth 3d requires adjustment in every part of the stick. If you are just a tumble junky then I can agree with your claim.

Again, expo is a personal feeling thing and everyone is different. Your 70% expo would feel like I was trudging through slippery mud since I like much lower expo settings. I also try to fly some precision on high rates so the expo needs to match flying that isn't just stick banging. Someone could feel the plane is twitchy from either too little or too much expo. The point I'm trying to make is that a person should try different stuff until they have it how they like it.

Nothing induces wing rock in harrier like too much expo on rudder because MOST of your adjustments are going to be in the MID RANGE where the expo setting acting like an on/off switch is going to make life difficult. Just ask Wamsy or Joe or watch some vids of really good 3d flying with this conversation in mind.

Hope this helps.
we must harrier differently i guess...
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Old Dec 03, 2012, 01:49 AM
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IMO, to get rid of wing rock practice, try different AOA, and practice some more. When I first started I had wing rock and didn't know why. 100 flights later I couldn't get plane to wing rock. Expo is personal preference and what you got used to... I just setup a 71 slick with the recommended expos from the manual and hated it then I increased it to what I was using on other airframes and felt at home instantly.
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Old Dec 04, 2012, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by bryansifsof44 View Post
IMO, to get rid of wing rock practice, try different AOA, and practice some more. When I first started I had wing rock and didn't know why. 100 flights later I couldn't get plane to wing rock. Expo is personal preference and what you got used to... I just setup a 71 slick with the recommended expos from the manual and hated it then I increased it to what I was using on other airframes and felt at home instantly.
you increased it to more than 75%? I've heard of that.
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