Discussion X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter, general quadrocopter, x-ufo discussion PART 2

[tend2it]

With the Poll - X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter, general quadrocopter, x-ufo discussion hitting over 2,500+ posts ... I think it is time to split the thread group again ...

Part 1 showcased the X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter and this thread should continue on as a support thread of discussion . See below for the recap.

There is a planned successor to the X-3D gyro board to be available soon ... info here ... http://www.asctec.de/main/index.php?...g=en&cat=hobby

Some interested parties have asked "how much soldering is involved with this kit"?

Originally Posted by tend2it

Not that much soldering ... (three X-BLDC esc wires to three X-BL motor wires) x 4; (two X-BLDC wires to the X-Base BL +/-) X 4; two lipo battery connector wires to X-Base +/-); Berg 4L Rx mod (if in US) has three wires to the Berg and three wires to the X-Base
The power taps for 11V and 5V were soldered to the X-Base at +5/+11V and FET #1 and #2 locs ... all have connection holes along the rim of the board to solder to.

The LED mods were also soldered to the X-Base ... two wires X 4; The LED strips were also soldered together to one connector

then 4 X-BLDC communication wires plugged into each esc to the X-Base;

all electronic components are pre-populated on surface mount boards ... all boards plug in ... X-3D gyro board & X-ACC accelerometer add-on.

All programming is done via USB comm cable to a computer running X-Control software.

The X-Base solder points are small so a magnifier helps.

Some interested parties have asked if this particular quadro can be used for Aerial Video Photography ...

Originally Posted by tend2it

Although not endorsed by the inventors ... it can be and has been used to carry cameras and perform Point Of View (POV) flying. It is however a bit small to track at a great distance and lift heavy payloads as compared to its MikroKopter/UAVP/BL-Draganflyer counterparts which are more designed for that purpose. This quadro is designed to be more of a Ferrari in fun flight performance.

Answers to most general questions can be found in the previous threads ... I compiled a collection of links here ...
Wealth of Quadrocopter/Tricopter Info links

This discussion is not limited to the X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter, but also should include anything X-UFO, X-Tuning, or Quadrocopter (or even Tri-Copter) related ... so continue on with these topics of general discussion as well.

Jump To Thread Links (Table of Contents ... work in progress)

Here are some pics of jimcking's El Tape/Wire mod ...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=892
and http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=941 and http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=993

Recommendations for X software loading sequence and Part 2 and Part 3

Latest X Software Update Source

Lipo C Rating explained

FlyCam2 V2 info

Hacker Motor info

2.4 Ghz Fasst mod OMM

Jim's take on the different Quadros

more to come ...

Khaled X-CSM Arm Repair Procedure

Guidoco X-CSM arm fix mod

Damon's FunPilot Review

Berg 4L Manual for Failsafe setup

X-3D BL LED Support Explained

Happy Flying ...

--Eric--
<my landing strut + NAV mods >

Here's a recap from Part 1...

Originally Posted by tend2it

The X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter is the high-end four-rotor helicopter developed by the X-3D Crew (including two of the original designers of the Silverlit X-UFO). The new craft is no longer a toy … but a professional flying machine. It uses four brushless outrunners motors (called X-BL) which are connected to the high-performance brushless controllers (called X-BLDC) which where developed for the needs of a multi-rotor system. Due to the high speed attitude controller running at 1kHz and the very good power to thrust ratio of about 4:1 the X-BL is a perfect trainer for acrobatic helicopter flying. It shares the advantages of the mechanical simplicity and robustness with all other quadro-, and multicopters. No complex swashplate and head assembly to worry about. Here are some pics of the completed X-BL Quadrocopter (with beta X-BL motors ... the current X-BL motors are mono-tone color and more powerful)




It is currently sold as a DIY Kit Project where the key components of the X-3D Gyro Board, X-Base Main Board, X-BL Brushless controller and motor kit, X-CSM Frame, X-Propellers, USB Interface, Tx and Rx will be available separately. This DIY Project will require some minor soldering of the X-BL, Rx, power connector, and LEDs to the X-Base Main Board. With the flexibility of supporting different Receivers, any 6-channel Transmitter or higher can be used to control it.

Quadrocopters operate on the principle of using two pairs of counter rotating fixed propellers. Controlling the rpms of each individual motor by a microcomputer allows for ascend/descend, turn right/left, tilt forward/back, or roll left/right flight characteristics. In that respect, it is a little easier to fly than a conventional RC helicopter.

Videos of the X-3D BL in action
X-3D BL in action along with a proto star-3D:

X-3D BL + ACC Module in action:

X-3D BL carrying a digital camera:

Early development (shot at M.I.T.) of the X-3D BL technology:

More videos can be found here ... http://forum.xufo.net/bb/viewforum.php?f=22


Note: Prices are snapshots and are subject to change

The X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter consists of the following electronic and mechanical components:

(1) X-3D Funpilot Gyro Board Specs



X-3D manual and software downloads: http://www.asctec.de/main/index.php?...g=en&cat=hobby

- Compatible to the X-Base
- LPC2146 ARM7 32-bit processor with 60 Mhz
- 3 gyroscopes
- High-precision air pressure sensor with a 24-bit ADC
- Connectivity for extensions (I2C, SPI, 2x servo output)
- Software Update via PC with a USB port (connector optional)
- Optional: Use of the X-ACC as a 3-axis accelerometer
- Detailed operating instructions
- JTAG debugging and programming of the OpenSourcePilot-Software

OpenSourcePilot-Software is a pilot project to the management of X-BL Quadrocoptern for private projects with disclosed source code will allow hardware and as the FunPilot. The project will start in summer 2008. It may at any time between FunPilot pilot and open source software to be changed.

Part Number 17188171 => Price: 179,90 Euros = ~268,12296 U.S. dollars

(2) X-Base + X-ACT Receiver Bundle Specs



Universal peripheral main board for connecting the motors, the receiver, LEDs and other user electronics

Part Number: 17188144 => Price: 99,90 Euros = ~122.3514 U.S. dollars
X-Base manual and software downloads: http://www.x-3d.org/download/xbase.htm

- 4 Connectors for X-BLDC motor controllers
- 4 Connectors for brushed motors up to 8A per motor
- 4 LED connectors
- 4 switchable outputs for additional functions (up to 8A each; only in BL mode)
- Dynamic Thrust Control (DTC) for brushed and brushless motors
- Serial receiver connector (for X-ACT-X3D Edition)
- PPM-In connector for modified standard receivers
- firmware update via the X-3D''s USB module
- comprehensive PC software (Firmware update, calibration, diagnosis, etc...)
- Electronic main on/off switch with customizable overcurrent and undervoltage cutoff
- Automatic "learning" of all transmitters (center positions, travel adjustments, channel assignments and inversions) using the PC software
- up to four extra servo outputs (on transmitters with >4 channels)
- protection against wrong battery polarity
- LED status light patterns

(3) X-BL Kit Specs

Part Number: 17188144 => Price: 399,90 Euros = ~538.2654 U.S. dollars
X-BL manual downloads: http://www.x-3d.org/download/xbl.htm

Pic of the actual X-BL (the ones above are of the beta BL)



Special Brushless Controllers and Brushless Motors. The X-BL kit consists of:
- 4x 17188145 X-BLDC brushless controllers
- 4x 17188147 X-BL52S motors

X-BL Brushless Controllers
- extremely fast brushless controller optimized for the X-3D BL application
- fast I2C bus interface connection to the X-Base at 1 kHz update rate
- firmware update via I2C through the X-Base and the X-3D USB adapter
- exclusively optimized for the X-BL 52S motor
- weight: 8g including power wires

X-BL 52S motor
- 14 pole outrunner, optimized for high performance in the X-3D BL application
- propeller mounts for the X-UFO propellers and upcoming X-BL propellers
- fine-tuned for the X-BLDC brushless controller
- weight: 27.5g

(4) X-CSM Specs



Part Number: 17188150 BL-Only arm support => Price: 175,90 Euros = ~236.7614 U.S. dollars
Part Number: 17188140 Brushed/BL arm support => Price: 179,90 Euros = ~241,74962 U.S. dollars
X-CSM manual download: http://www.x-3d.org/download/xcsm.htm

A frame for the X-BL Quadcopter. The abbreviation stands for Carbon Sandwich Magnesium.

- Light weight carbon/balsa sandwich booms
- Magnesium/CF X-CSM core protects main electronics and battery and acts as landing gear
- Antenna mount point
- Weight: 75g
- axis distance: 32cm

(5) X-Propellers
Part Number: 17188140 Brushed/BL arm support => Price: 8,90 Euros = 11.9794 U.S. dollars, $6.99 stateside

2 clockwise propellers, 2 counterclockwise propellers

- Standard X-Ufo propellers for safety and reliability can be adapted and used
- or upcoming modified high performance propellers (TBD)

(6)X-3D USB Interface + Software



Part Number: 17188125 => Price: 19,90 Euros = ~26.7854 U.S. dollars
X-CSM manual download: http://www.x-3d.org/download/x3d.htm

This is a board adapter to computer USB interface with Windows application used to program the X-BL Quadrocopter

- Allows firmware programming and tweaking of the X-3D Gyroboard
- Allows firmware programming and tweaking of the X-Base main board

Optional X-ACC => Price: 96,90 euros = ~ 142.82091 U.S. dollars



Features
Sensors
X-3D and X-Base use a three axis acceleration sensor (X-ACC) as absolute angle reference in pitch and roll
Compatibility
The well known X-3D heading hold mode remains fully functional. Loops, rolls in any combination and all tricks are still possible. Your user defined settings are still compatible! The Ext1 function (which can be trained in with the X-Base e.g. on channel 5) is used to switch to the X-ACC mode during flight.
Precision
The X-ACC mode estimates the absolute pitch and roll angle with an ultra fast data fusion. The RC sticks set the absolute angle!
Put the sticks in the middle and the UFO will come back to a horizontal level within the measurement precision. The X-ACC mode is perfect for very precise indoor flights and for beginners to get in touch with flying a UFO.
Dynamic
The unique three axis compensation enables the X-ACC UFO to fly highly dynamic maneuvers with excellent precision and gives a safe start for dynamic 2D aerobatic flights.
Safety
Close or far away: The X-ACC ensures that the UFO is always controllable. This is increasing the safe maximum flight distance. In case of an reception loss the UFO comes back to the horizontal level and descends slowly.
Future investment All potentially upcoming X-Base upgrades will be able to use the X-ACC as well.
Compatibility The X-ACC works with brushed motors as well as in brushless UFOs.

Note: Can be used to stabilize for Areal Video/Photography Platform

First X-ACC impressions here ... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1315

Receiver Options

Option 1 (recommended method)
X-ACT 35MHz, 40MHz, and 72MHz (72MHz Receiver will be available ???)

- DSL protocol one simple plug in cable mating with the X-Base
- Programmable functions through the X-Base
- Designed and modified for the X-BL
- Calibration done via X-Base with X-Control PC software

Option 2
PPM Receiver

- Freedom to use any receiver with special downloadable firmware version.
- Any 4 channel PPM receiver may modified to work with the X-Base
- 3 wire connection soldered to through hole pads on X-Base (Power, Ground and PPM serial signal)
- Up to 8 channels decoded from PPM serial signal from any 4 channel receiver
- Corresponding matching Rx/Tx Crystal

Note: Many using the Berg 4L mini 4 channel receiver procedures follow link
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=140 and http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=137
and mine here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=582 ... I kept the pins in place to be able to use the extra 5V power/ground pins for other things like LEDs and CAM.

NOTE: If you remove the pin pads, you can introduce more problems on the board traces.

Transmitter Options
- Any PPM Supported Professional Transmitter will work using ACRO standard settings
- Recommended 6-channels or greater (Some folks are operating minimally with 4-channels)

Misc Details
Additional things needed to get the X-3D Brushless Quadrocopter off the ground

- Lipo Battery connector and gage wire to be soldered to the X-Base main board
- Lipo Battery for flying (730, 900, 910, 1000, 1050, etc... mAh 3-cell 11.1V)
- Tx/Rx matching crystal frequencies
- Optional NAV LED and wires to be soldered to the X-Base main board (can use existing X-UFO LED boards)
- NOTE: cables (10 to 12 gauge?) and connectors need to be able to take 20amps of average current (max current could be up to < 40amps)

Brushless X-3D Quadrocopter Technical Data

* Diameter: 32 cm (without propellers)
* Weight without battery: 260g
* Thrust: 4*330g = 1320g max thrust (this means it can lift ~500g. But not longer than 2 minutes)
* Expert Mode gives the ability to do 3D tricks like loops and rolls


Availability

All components are exclusively sold by the XUfo-shop (http://www.xufo-shop.de). Note: an English version of xufo-shop coming soon.
Currently German->English translators like http://babelfish.altavista.com/ can be used to translate order form line items or send an email to the shop detailing what you want to order. They accept PayPAL (for a small service charge) which will do the currency conversion when paying in Euros.

NEW: ... the shop now sells a X3D-BL UFO Komplett Kit with consists of
17188150 X-CSM Frame
17188171 X-3D Funpilot Gyro Board
17188125 X-3D USB Interface
17188142 X-Base main board
17188143 X-ACT Receiver (you can opt out of this if you are going use a Berg 4L)
17188145 X-BDLC Brushless Controllers (4x)
17188146 X-BL Motors (4x)
124749 X-Base-Power cable w/G2 connector
85640 Propellers (4x)

With Optional Accessories:
FUTABA FF6 35MHz (NOT COMPATIBLE FOR US)
X-BL LIPO-KOKAM 910H w/G2 connector
X-BL Charging Leads w/G2 connector


* X-3D: since September 2006
* X-CSM: since May 2007
* X-Base: since end of May 2007
* X-BL: since July 2007
* X-3D, X-Base, X-CSM, X-BL package kit now available
* X-ACC: now available

Support
Latest software can be found here ... http://www.asctec.de/main/index.php?...=&cat=&lang=en

Available through http://forum.xufo.net … Don't let a German forum site scare you, There is a healthy English speaking community there and posting/answers can be in English. There is also an [In English] bablefish translator for German content in the toolbar. There is a large established community of friendly Quadrocopter flyers and X-BL beta testers there.

Special Thanks to dawidi's http://wiki.xufo.net/wiki/Main_Page, wister, and Jast for helping to compile additional X-BL related info.


For newbies to Quadrocopters or followers of the Silverlit X-UFO, X-UFO Upgrade path, X-Tuning, refer to the previous general discussion thread below
Discussion - General Silverlit X-UFO, X-upgrades, and BL UFO Upgrade

This will link you to several other past threads and forum topics with an abundance of related information buried within.

In the previous thread, there is already discussion from experience on the new X-CSM frame, X-Base main board, Berg 4L Receiver mod and installation, the X-3D gyroboard, and +20C lipo battery discussion for the BL Upgrade. The X-BL kit is the eagerly awaited missing component that hopefully will arrive soon.

What the X-CSM, X-Base, and X-BL Kit looks like ... shipment received ... Click on the link to see the pics ...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=398

[chessman21]

It definably feels allot more stable and responsive and the sound of the props minus the brushed gears is awesome. Even with the quick stock frame mod it came out the hole level and strait.. I dont really see a dramatic power increase tho, or it seems it doesn't accelerate that much faster. I hope this is because its been in acc mod. Or maybe even a dying lipo pack, Iv been using the same one since day 1 and its starting to get a little puffy. Ill change up the acc1 to hh1 and see what results that gives. I noticed this with the brushed motors allso, Cant remember if it i noticed it befor or after the installation of the acc board.▲▲

[tend2it]

Originally Posted by chessman21

It definably feels allot more stable and responsive and the sound of the props minus the brushed gears is awesome. Even with the quick stock frame mod it came out the hole level and strait.. I dont really see a dramatic power increase tho, or it seems it doesn't accelerate that much faster. I hope this is because its been in acc mod. Or maybe even a dying lipo pack, Iv been using the same one since day 1 and its starting to get a little puffy. Ill change up the acc1 to hh1 and see what results that gives. I noticed this with the brushed motors allso, Cant remember if it i noticed it befor or after the installation of the acc board.▲▲

Congrats ... that is great news! ... now we know that the united hobby hacker motors work ... you should be seeing a 3-4x power difference when you start playing with payloads ... X-ACC mode does add a little bit of a drag when flying around since it is compensating for self-leveling ... please post some pics ... btw, what did you end up doing for the X-BLDC to X-Base communication cables?

--Eric--

[chessman21]

Originally Posted by tend2it

Congrats ... that is great news! ... now we know that the united hobby hacker motors work ... you should be seeing a 3-4x power difference when you start playing with payloads ... X-ACC mode does add a little bit of a drag when flying around since it is compensating for self-leveling ... please post some pics ... btw, what did you end up doing for the X-BLDC to X-Base communication cables?

--Eric--

Thank you I used the data cables from digi-key, they were about a half inch shorter than the one that came from the shop but they seem to work fine. the wires snap into the connectors easly no cremping needed.
All so, one of the motors doesnt spin as freely as the other 3. Not sure what to make of it. Doesnt seem to affect the controll of the quad, but im wondering if that mite have something to do with the acceleration drag i think i got. Maybe the controllors make the motors rev up only as fast as its slowest motor to maintain controll? I got a new spar. I may swap it out.
Ill post some pics tomarrow. Thxs for all the help guys, I like it!

[tend2it]

Originally Posted by saturnine

I promise videos this spring (soon). There is no stress relief and I've never had a problem without it. Any shock is dampened by the servo tape and by friction under the X-Base with other wires. I've never had the receiver come off or a wire break free from the receiver.

Sounds good about the new poll.

Damon

Cool ... We'll hold you to it ... ... forgot to say nice pics in the prev thread ...

--Eric--

[saturnine]

The X-Base uses what's called DTC (Dynamic Thrust Control) which essentially limits your power output to all motors in effort to match the limits of the weakest motor in the bunch. This is what makes flight more stable than the Chinese mobo, but also you suffer a performance penalty if one of your motors is underachieving. There is a good chance this is what you are experiencing, as you should see a sizable increase in power going from brushed to brushless.

One other thing to make note of is that I definitely noticed that it took more stick to get get into the air than with the brushed setup. This was because the brushless software was made with a linear throttle curve whereas the brushed version used a parabolic curve making it seem as if it took off with less power. On the high end of the stick however, you should see a sizable difference in static thrust skewed towards the brushless setup. With the brushed software, you'd get quicker response off the line, but the top end was much weaker.

The sound of the BL is awesome, isn't it?

Damon

Originally Posted by chessman21

Thank you I used the data cables from digi-key, they were about a half inch shorter than the one that came from the shop but they seem to work fine. the wires snap into the connectors easly no cremping needed.
All so, one of the motors doesnt spin as freely as the other 3. Not sure what to make of it. Doesnt seem to affect the controll of the quad, but im wondering if that mite have something to do with the acceleration drag i think i got. Maybe the controllors make the motors rev up only as fast as its slowest motor to maintain controll? I got a new spar. I may swap it out.
Ill post some pics tomarrow. Thxs for all the help guys, I like it!

[khaled_abobakr]

@Chessman21 ... this is really very good news ...can't wait for the photos showing how you modified your frame to accommodate the motors ...

@saturnine .... DTC Dynamic Thrust Control .... this is way cool... if I knew this from the beginning I would have switched to the X-base from day 1 .. it would have added few hours to the lifespan of my 1st set of brushed motors

Thanks

Khaled

[khaled_abobakr]

I wonder if the updates released by the Jast and his crew at the German forum for fixing some issues are put in place in the software section at www.asctec.de or I have to hunt for them in the thread ....because it seems that the latest update is very essential

Thank you all ...

[jesolins]

Kahled,
Jast is putting it in the Xtuning thread. Here: http://forum.xufo.net/bb/viewtopic.php?t=9006 There is still no update package for the XBL with ACC.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by khaled_abobakr

I wonder if the updates released by the Jast and his crew at the German forum for fixing some issues are put in place in the software section at www.asctec.de or I have to hunt for them in the thread ....because it seems that the latest update is very essential

Thank you all ...

[khaled_abobakr]

Thank you very much , Jim

is there any sequence I should follow when updating the X-3d , X-base , X-BL .. to get it updated right ??

Thank you

Khaled

[jesolins]

Khaled,
My recommendations that have worked well for me:
1. Load the X3d [*.ufc] firmware first (it can be attached to the x-base or not at this point) After removing the bootloader pin and rebooting, load the parameters [*.ini] that you desire in each 1-4 window (i.e., beginner or VACC, or advanced, etc.; if you have an ACC module, then make sure the ACC parameters are in the ACC 2 and 4 positions, Hint: the ACC parms will have an PITCH/ROLL/height_d angle of "0") note: The gyro data stream on an x3d loaded with xbase firmware will not work unless the x3d is mounted on the xbase and power is on.
2. Load the X-Base firmware [*.xbs]. After flashing the firmware, remove the bootloader pin from the xbase and reboot. Then cal your TX and ACC if you have one. Check the motors for the proper position on the arms and that they are turning in the proper direction. Adjust by dragging from the right window to the arms of the graphic if required. The first time you drag to arms that have ESC's assigned, it will clear two arms. Then drag it again to the proper arm and both cleared arms will be filled with the correct ESC address.
3. Load the XBL firmware if required [*.blc]. Make sure you don't have the boot loader jumper on the X-base or X-3d when doing the XBL firmware (ESC) flashing. Be sure to select all on the left window that you want to reload. This can be finicky. If it can not find the motors/ESC's when you first do the search, first close the X-control app, then cycle the power off/on on the quad, and try again. If it still can't find them, remove 3 of the four black/blue I2c wires and cycle power back to on and try again. If you load the "music" you may or may not get a "finished" prompt. It loads these very quickly, so just cycle power on the quad and you will see that it has flashed the music anyway.

Note: The X-Control is "usually" pretty good about telling you what to do next, or what the problem is. Make sure you read it closely when you do an action and do read the processor response window at the bottom. The common mistake most folks make is to forget to click the correct tab when doing a firmware or parameter update. Not clicking on the proper tab will get you the "not connected" or "can't find" response. Just click on the right tab and you will be back in business
Hope that helps!
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by khaled_abobakr

Thank you very much , Jim

is there any sequence I should follow when updating the X-3d , X-base , X-BL .. to get it updated right ??

Thank you

Khaled

[khaled_abobakr]

Jim ,,,,thank you very much for the detailed answer ... I guess I will copy your post and save it in a text file for future reference ....

Thanks

Khaled

[chessman21]

Heres a few pics, I havent done any agressive flying, this is basicaly just a tester, the motor is bolted onto a plate thats "hot glued" to the stock motor holder seems to hold but i dont trust it !00%, I dremeled the suport shafts off the props and hot glued them inplace to catch the 2 of the four grooves that are made onto the rear shaft adaptor that came with the motors. And why are we waiting for new or beter software for the acc/bl config? Whats it not doing now that it could do? Seems like it flys like the brushed acc setup to me.

[tend2it]

Originally Posted by chessman21

Heres a few pics, I havent done any agressive flying, this is basicaly just a tester, the motor is bolted onto a plate thats "hot glued" to the stock motor holder seems to hold but i dont trust it !00%, I dremeled the suport shafts off the props and hot glued them inplace to catch the 2 of the four grooves that are made onto the rear shaft adaptor that came with the motors. And why are we waiting for new or beter software for the acc/bl config? Whats it not doing now that it could do? Seems like it flys like the brushed acc setup to me.

Is there any way to bolt the plate to the stock motor holders too? ... the vibration generated by the motors could cause the hot glue to wear over time.

Looks like a good mod ... but switching from brushed to brushless, you should be noticing more power than you are seeing ... was thinking of using something (maybe CF plate) like that to extend the distance on the X-CSM arms to accommodate the bigger Hacker style 20-22Ls and larger 10X4.5" props.

moti is using those hackers on his brushless DF ... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1418

--Eric--

[chessman21]

Originally Posted by tend2it

Is there any way to bolt the plate to the stock motor holders too? ... --Eric--

Yea i think i can get a bolt/nut were the stock motor gear sticks out, im gonna work on that and maybe a thin strip of gorilla tape around the power wires just behind the motors just incase they come off so it doesn't put any stress on the esc boards.

Question: About this 3-4 times the power, i changed out the motor that didn't spin as freely as the others and I didn't really tell a differ in the acceleration. My battery pack is a 1050mah "12c continuous 20c in short burst" and i have hh1 loaded with the "beginner" setting. Think either one of these scenarios may be the reason i don't see the dramatic power increase?