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View Poll Results: What is an Optimal f3p Setup?
Is my setup problem Weight? 9 56.25%
Is my setup problem Power? 7 43.75%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Apr 21, 2008, 10:31 PM
Registered User
Utah, USA
Joined Sep 2006
34 Posts
Question
Optimal f3p setup?

I'm trying to get the best setup for indoor f3p flying. My plane can't fly verticle very well.(Doesn't climb upward in the vertical position)What is my problem?Is it weight or Power?

Here is my setup

Motor- Microdan F3p-2003 29t series 11g
Esc- Thunderbird 6Amp 4g
Hitec Micro 05s reciever 8.5g
3 Diamond 47 servos 4.7g each
Battery- dualsky 450mah (25c) 7.4v , 2 cell-28g
prop- gws 8x4 direct drive

I don't have the weight of the plane but it is as light I could make it with bracing only on the main wing with 1mm carbon rod

Do I have the right setup for indoor f3p slow flight?



Here are some pictures. Built and Painted it myself. Borrowed paint design from an Indoor German Championship I think.

Thanks for your comments!

Yogi
[IMG]home build clik[/IMG]
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Old Apr 21, 2008, 11:09 PM
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matchlessaero's Avatar
Tennessee/Mid-South US
Joined Mar 2002
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Yogi, you should dump the JST batt plugs for some mini-Deans. That will give you a good bump in power right there....
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Old Apr 21, 2008, 11:14 PM
RC Bum 4 Hire
ChrisBowker's Avatar
United States, NM, Albuquerque
Joined May 2004
1,155 Posts
your set up doesnt look bad, the only thing on the heavy side is your receiver, you can get a berg4 that come in around 4 grams(if I'm not mistaken, I quit flying 72mhz a while ago)

It also looks like you're still running JST plugs, Micro Deans are much better.

If I had to guess, and keep in mind Ive built a ton of foamys, I would guess with that gear I would guess that plane is in the 130g range, I would guess that is to much plane for that motor. I would look at some different motors for that weight range. Some motors are: Hacker a-10, Hyperion z-3007 either the 9 turn or the 11 turn(the 9 being much much more power) or the Eflite Park 250. Any of those should fly your plane very well.

Chris

www.DarkSideModels.com
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Old Apr 21, 2008, 11:15 PM
RC Bum 4 Hire
ChrisBowker's Avatar
United States, NM, Albuquerque
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matchlessaero
Yogi, you should dump the JST batt plugs for some mini-Deans. That will give you a good bump in power right there....
And you beat me to it while my slow fingers are typing.

Chris

www.DarkSideModels.com
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Old Apr 21, 2008, 11:18 PM
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Daniel Z's Avatar
Joined Dec 2004
291 Posts
With smaller batteries (250-300 mah), and a lighter reciever you could save about 15 gms, also, you can go for desperate weight savings like shortening/replace wires eliminate plugs, especially motor-esc, soldering directly to reciever, milling, and mounting your motor on a lighter way, hope this helps
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Old Apr 21, 2008, 11:41 PM
Registered User
Utah, USA
Joined Sep 2006
34 Posts
Does 15 grams give more vertical thrust?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Z
With smaller batteries (250-300 mah), and a lighter reciever you could save about 15 gms, also, you can go for desperate weight savings like shortening/replace wires eliminate plugs, especially motor-esc, soldering directly to reciever, milling, and mounting your motor on a lighter way, hope this helps

would saving 15grams plus be enough weight to give a plane extra vertical thrust?

Does anyone know?
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Old Apr 22, 2008, 03:52 AM
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Ireland, Kildare, Leixlip
Joined May 2002
6,441 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBowker
....Hyperion z-3007 either the 9 turn or the 11 turn(the 9 being much much more power)....
You didn't mean to type z-3007 I presume!
1705 11 turn and 1709 9 turn perhaps?
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Old Apr 22, 2008, 07:32 AM
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crossup's Avatar
Annapolis, Maryland USA
Joined Feb 2001
2,450 Posts
I'd suggest you put an amp meter on it and see what you're pull'in. My guess, not being very familar with the MD motor is that its overpropped...but who know, maybe its underpropped. The meter will tell...but I'm sure I've seen plenty fly models at the weight your plane probably weights so you just need to optimize your power delivery.
And the guys are correct, go with a smaller, high rate battery. The 450's are best suited to outdoor use with these planes and generally dont provide more amps to overcome the 7 g or so weigth penality.
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Old Apr 22, 2008, 08:24 AM
www.gobrushless.com
North Carolina
Joined Jan 2005
1,564 Posts
the MicroDAN 2003 29T is specially tuned for the GWS 8x4 prop and will produce 7oz thrust at 4.5A on 2s only.
your flying weight needs to be no more than 4oz.

it is possible that the rear bearing is damaged if the set screw in the tube mount was tightened too much. if the motor is damaged in any way I will repair it free.
pm me if you need more details.
Dan
support@gobrushless.com
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Old Apr 22, 2008, 11:11 AM
RC Bum 4 Hire
ChrisBowker's Avatar
United States, NM, Albuquerque
Joined May 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aio_1
You didn't mean to type z-3007 I presume!
1705 11 turn and 1709 9 turn perhaps?
Possibly...Thanks for catching that.

Chris
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Old Apr 23, 2008, 12:13 AM
Registered User
Utah, USA
Joined Sep 2006
34 Posts
Done!

Thanks guys,
I've bought a bunch of things and will try to lessen the weight with a new battery, A berg cc 4l reciever, and have removed the motor mount and added the mini deans for more power. Bought a scale also.

The plane before the changes weighed 4.65 oz or 129g
with all of these changes new weight should be under 3.98 oz or 113 g.

will it be enough?
If it isnt, I'll have to find another motor
we will see
thanks
Yogi
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Old Apr 23, 2008, 07:27 AM
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Annapolis, Maryland USA
Joined Feb 2001
2,450 Posts
while I've already admitted to not being an expert on the MD, the man himself says 4oz is good, and I have to think 7oz of thrust your plane will have proper indoor vertical performance. One thing for sure, with the new bits you've got some top drawer gear for a wonderful plane.
This was an eye opener for me as I had the MD for a bit more powerful but at 5.6A 7oz is excellent.
I'm slowly but surely getting out of under motoring my plane after an initial success powering a 40" plane with a Park 250.
BTW, sure is nice to see a serious post and responses, almost professional... bet you get great results.
Sorry but I just had to pick on some of the newbie posters asking if they can use a Hacker 2020 on a Bling etc
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Old Apr 23, 2008, 06:56 PM
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massachusetts
Joined Aug 2003
923 Posts
You did a great job on that plane. It looks almost like mine. When I look for a motors, I look at the Kv and winding. I could be wrong, but the winding seems a little high for a two cell pack. I donít have a Microdan motor. So I donít really know what itís capable of. Iím running an E Flite 250 and it pulls out just fine. Here my specks.
EVO AUW 4.6 oz / 130.5 gr.
Wing 32 in. cord 9 tip 5.5 * Wing loading 2.86 sq. / ft. * Azarr Lite Antenna
Motor E Flite 250 with GWS EP 7 X 3.5
3 D 4.7 Servos./ Thunderbird 6 ESC
TP 480 mA 2 cell pack * thrust 6.6 oz.
Carbon truss under fuselage .018
Wing LE only .125 X .020 with .046 carbon supports. No Landing gear.
Have A Great Day !
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Old Apr 23, 2008, 08:40 PM
Registered User
Warsaw & Gdynia, Poland
Joined Sep 2005
207 Posts
My Clik weighs 116g with this type of equipment:
- Hacker A10-15s,
- MGM 7 easy ESC (I use a lighter Hacker X-5 in my AM plane),
- 3 D47s servos,
- Hitec hs 05MS receiver
- 2s flightpower 350 Evolite.

By swapping the ESC for the lighter one and changing the receiver to a Penta and also doing some weight savings with equipment, not the plane I could easily get it at about 105g. But why should I do it, knowing that it has huge power for indoor F3P program and is slow enough for me (I still need some practise with it on triangular loops).

I used only 1mm carbon braces (I can post a better photo of it if you want), without flat carbon on the leading edge.
Landing gear made from 2mm carbon rod (next one will be from tube, which is 30% lighter). Depron has been strenghtened with fiberglass tape instead of the usual ply.

Motor mount was the standard fiberglass star that comes with the hacker- no EPP, like I've done on the AM plane.

And last but not least-it's actually not depron what I use, but extrupor. Some say that it's 30% lighter than depron.
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Old Apr 23, 2008, 10:12 PM
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Daniel Z's Avatar
Joined Dec 2004
291 Posts
Quote:
would saving 15grams plus be enough weight to give a plane extra vertical thrust?
yes, think about a 10% of weight saving! or pulling thrust over weight in a vertical with 10gms more than yesterday
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