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Old Jan 09, 2003, 10:20 PM
Registered User
Vermont
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What vtail only sailplanes are there?

Just wondering if there are many sailplanes without ailerons -- just vtail. Can they turn well enough with just the V?

Thanks.
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Old Jan 09, 2003, 10:27 PM
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Laurel, MD
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Good question, I would guess they would be able to. But I would like to hear the answer from an experienced pilot...

j
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Old Jan 09, 2003, 10:40 PM
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The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
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You can treat V tails just like regular tails. Just use lots of dihedral like Spirits or Gentle Ladies and you're in the running.

In fact there's no reason why you can't to a conversion of any of the rudder-elevator models.

Looking into the Way Back Machine there was the Esprit and Grand Esprit that did very well as poly ruddervon only models. I'm sure there were others too but they don't come to mind now.

If you want to try this you may be interested in a little article that Don Stackhouse over at DJ Aerotech wrote about the proper method for the conversion. It's not what I thought at all.

http://www.djaerotech.com/dj_askjd/d...ailvolumn.html

And here's a pic of a Grand Esprit. A lovely floater and decent penetrator, within reason, if ever there was one.

PS: Don's Chrysallis is a V polyhedral HLG and there's a couple of other HLG types. Nothing in the larger models though AFAIK.

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Last edited by BMatthews; Jan 09, 2003 at 10:44 PM.
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Old Jan 09, 2003, 11:01 PM
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Vermont
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Nice looking plane! What is the wing width and chord?
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Old Jan 09, 2003, 11:13 PM
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The 'Wack, BC, Canada
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Quote:
Originally posted by fdisk
Nice looking plane! What is the wing width and chord?
Fill yer boots. And don't blame me if you suddenly have another winter project....

http://www.dchobby.com/short%20kit/GrandEsprit.html

It's not for lead foot launches but if you blip it up it does great on a winch getting as high as the super ships thanks to the wing area.

On a heavy duty high start it did well too. No last second turns at 3 feet though. You'll catch a tip for sure.
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Old Jan 09, 2003, 11:27 PM
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Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
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You can make practically anything into v-tail, REM control..
Here's 4
The top two are based on the AstroFlight Mini-Challeger, lower left a Paragon, lower right original..
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Old Jan 09, 2003, 11:53 PM
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Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, Pennsylvania, United States
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The problem with getting Vee tail planes to do well was the need to mix the rudder and elevator functions. Those mechanical mixers were not the easiest to master. DuBro came up with a mixer that was somewhat simpler but still not easy. Now with computer radios it is finally easy to accomplish. I've done a couple and have had no problems
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Old Jan 09, 2003, 11:55 PM
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Vermont
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Nice designs Sparky Paul.

I tried something in bluecor that looks a LOT like the lower left. It flew, but it was heavy and I didn't know how badly I had mismatched the motor so I trashed it. Did that fly well for you?

The top right is how I was thinking about making my ugly-2. Do you have a web page for it?

Thanks!
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Old Jan 10, 2003, 12:02 AM
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Vermont
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Sparky Paul, do those U-bend pushrod ends work as well as they look? That is an ingenious way to allow the rod to travel inside the boom!

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/aeros...PhotoPlane.htm
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Old Jan 10, 2003, 05:27 PM
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Belgium, Flemish Region, Oosterzele
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Re: What vtail only sailplanes are there?

Quote:
Originally posted by fdisk
Just wondering if there are many sailplanes without ailerons -- just vtail. Can they turn well enough with just the V?

Thanks.
Here's mine (Electric Bird of Time/V-Tail mod) R/E control + motor of course:


I once flew an own design (60 inch) with V-Tail R/E control and could easily roll it. A properly designed V-tail should give you at least as much control as more "conventional" designs.
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Old Jan 10, 2003, 07:18 PM
Ascended Master
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Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
13,499 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by fdisk
Sparky Paul, do those U-bend pushrod ends work as well as they look? That is an ingenious way to allow the rod to travel inside the boom!

http://www.angelfire.com/indie/aeros...PhotoPlane.htm
.
The pushrods are constrained against bending inside the arrow shafts with plastic buttons that come with E-Z connectors, 1 about every 6 inches.
These fit almost perfectly inside the arrow shaft and tightly on the wire, and keep the metal rod from contacting the inside of the boom.
If the flight loads were higher I'd probably use puul-pull for the same hookup.
I had a mid-air collapse on the first one due to airloads bending what were fiberglass booms at high speeds. The arrows seem to be stiffer, but I do watch the speed!
A forward c.g. really helps here.
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Old Jan 10, 2003, 07:25 PM
Ascended Master
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Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
13,499 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by fdisk
Nice designs Sparky Paul.

I tried something in bluecor that looks a LOT like the lower left. It flew, but it was heavy and I didn't know how badly I had mismatched the motor so I trashed it. Did that fly well for you?

The top right is how I was thinking about making my ugly-2. Do you have a web page for it?

Thanks!
.
The lower left is an Olympic II wing, arrow shaft booms, normal constructed vee..
Pod is doorskins. It's a prep/motor/battery tester.
Performance is quite good.
Magnetic Mayhem, MPC 8063 gearbox, 3.8:1
16x10 APC prop, 8x1400s.
.
The upper right is a simple balsa box with the side grain at 45 degrees, after the first version disintegrated hitting a rock landing.
Speed 400, 3:1 box, 9x5 Slimprop, 8x600.
The Slimprop is MUCH better than the equivalent APC!
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Old Jan 12, 2003, 04:28 AM
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Bristol, England
Joined Aug 2000
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The Filip 600 is available as V tail rudder/elevator only, and guess who has one on stock
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Old Mar 22, 2003, 07:39 PM
Ascended Master
Sparky Paul's Avatar
Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
13,499 Posts
I changed the conventional tail on my e-Spirit to a v-tail yesterday...
Flew it today.
Very good.
Used the "Quick v-tail sizing" aid at the Charles River site....
http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articl...tailsizing.htm
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