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Old Oct 23, 2008, 03:09 AM
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Old Oct 23, 2008, 03:30 AM
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4#3B Slop Issues and Solutions - Tip

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metieval
Thanks, yeah it is a fun micro.... just frustrating.

the O rings on the main rotor shaft is the biggest killer at this time.

*shrugs* I got these http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=260154669567
that was listed in http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=4264

And I ordered the

Main Motor, MIA 4-3 Shaft Collar Kit, MIA Deluxe Flybar Tuning Kit from johnIn2SonAZ

the 4#3b has slop I can't seem to get rid of. And a very high pitch whine that happens when I plug battery in. Not sure where the whine is coming from. Servo? Motor? 4n1? I've tried everything but replacing parts. It has been sitting for over a month cause of frustrations. I suppose with the release of the 4g3 made me dig it out again.
The 4g3 does seem appealing due to being able to run it in an idle up mode. Where the coax & FP drives me nuts!!

Actually the 4#3b is my only FP If it wasn't a micro I would never have bought a FP heli...
When you get the MIA Deluxe Flybar, there are some similar size O-rings to the ones that are incorporated in the 4#3B metal rotor head axle shaft, if I interpreted your words correctly, you can use the ones I supply with the MIA DeLuxe flybars, temporarily, to see if they work with your 4#3B rotor head. If they do, great, let me know and I will create a kit for those that wish to order the O-rings separately, for this application. If they are too stiff, put them back on the flybar, as retainers, for the bar weights, for which they were originally intended for.

Tip: The 4#3B needs a bit of slop in the rotor head. Too stiff of an o- ring dampers will make the helicopter to hard to control, too light of a dampers will make it too loose and the blades will flop all over.

The controls, links , swashplate, these need to be adjusted, as precise as possible, for better and more precise control. The MIA Swashplate standoff kits I supply with 3 O-rings, to take up any slack more precisely, between the swashplate and the top ball bearing of the main post, addresses this area.
The MIA Deluxe FLybar with tip weights adresses more stability. So I think you will be fine! be patient and give yourself a chance with the 4#3B. You are not alone.
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Old Oct 23, 2008, 03:43 AM
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Old Oct 23, 2008, 03:44 AM
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Dealing with tiny connector problems - Tip

This was posted and I responded in another thread but I thought it would be relevant here to maintain continuity with my other technical tips about the 4#3s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by minster9
Does walkera use their own design for the female connectors that plug into the 4 in 1 board? I've had nothing but trouble with mine. The black wire fell out of motor plug couple months ago,I rooted around in my junk until I found another plug & spliced it to motor wires. Had intermittent elevator control since,had to jiggle THAT plug. Little while ago the black tail motor wire fell out of its' plug on the board. I'm not banging the crap outta this heli,was flying indoors w/carpet floor. In past posts I said I would solder wires directly to the board & dip that edge in epoxy,but I'm afraid I might ruin it. Do they use an industry-standard connector? I know digikey sells all kinds of connectors,but if they're all made in same factory,what are my choices?
You are going to need a lot of patience for this and a good set of eyes!

Here is a tip:

1) carefully unplug any power to the board
2) carefully unplug the connectors making sure you don't pull on the wires but on the white plastic plug
3) work under a magnifying glass to unsnap the molded tiny tabs that hold the pin sockets in place inside the white connectors, you can use the tip of a used and dull exacto blade so not to have sharp edges poking at the plastic tabs.
4) once you pull the pin sockets note and remember the orientation or draw a picture just in case
5) carefully apply thin solder to the joints of the wires and sockets, this is the trickky part since you don't want extra solder preventing the re-installation of such
6) have a continuity tester VOM , if you have one that beeps upon contact of a short, the better, test each solder joint for continuity between the end tip of the pin socket and the other end that solders to the motor. Short? cool you are OK. For servos you are going to just rely on your soldering skills to assume you've done a good job without opening the servo and testing at the other end of the wires, or attached a fine needle or pin to the end of one of the test leads and prick the wire near the servo, you don't want to break the wire doing so, so use smallest pin possible.
7) carefully re-insert each pin socket into the white plastic holder same way you took it out but in reverse. Make sure the pin socket tabs of the plastic holder lock them in place. You can re-check continuity so to make sure that everything is right before the next step.
8) apply a bead of silicone caulk and just let it dry overnight, this is better than epoxy since the silicone caulk joint will remain flexible, be generous with the caulk but precise in the application and spread it long enough over the wired extending from the connector so when it dries it provides a finger grabbing tab that will make it easier for you to pull the connector off easier when you need to.
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Old Oct 23, 2008, 03:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metieval
Cool! I'll try that.

Some where in 100's of post I read John was using some Grainger O' rings. I thought but didn't catch a part number.

My O' ring (dampeners) was shot, I had lots of up and down play with lots of side to side play. It was really fun to try and fly For a few seconds it was stable, and then It would get a mind of its own. Bring it back under control and then it would do it again. If it didn't do its own thing on it's way back to being under control.

On to the goods news, I haven't had to fight the tail or fly rudder on this thing

Although the O-rings dampers can affect the "mind of its own" attitude, to some degree, this is more lack of precision in the control mechanics, which can be anywhere from the servo links on up to the swashplate to the flybar control arms/links. Keep in mind that we are constantly moving the cyclic and if the control to such is sloppy the helicopter will probably want to take off in almost any direction.

The MIA Flybar upgrade controls this to some degree, by stabilizing the rotor even more than the stock flybar provides and keeps the head from wanting to do its own thing when the cyclic is sloppy, tie this upgrade with the MIA Swashplate Standoff and I think you will see some noticeable improvements in stability and control.

You may also need the damper O-Rings, if you believe they are shot, one way to tell is if they look a bit beat up and like a string or thread, so far I have not seen this on mine and I think your's may be fine too. When you get the Upgrades, try them with the current stock damper O-rings you have and see if this helps, if not replace the O-rings too.

I noticed this, "mind of its own", too with mine when I was flying it stock and this is why I also created the swashplate standoff kit. Some people use springs and even rubber bands, similar as they all take up some of the control slack in the mechanics and provide more precise control.
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Old Oct 23, 2008, 08:35 AM
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thanks mk

thanks mk, i will do that....however i would like to keep the original blades, they are very strong and i have note even burned out a set since i got the 4#3.....

i have not had the problems with my v1 servos that everyone's talking about??? so far so good!

cheers!

jdog
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Old Oct 23, 2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
When you get the MIA Deluxe Flybar, there are some similar size O-rings to the ones that are incorporated in the 4#3B metal rotor head axle shaft, if I interpreted your words correctly, you can use the ones I supply with the MIA DeLuxe flybars, temporarily, to see if they work with your 4#3B rotor head. If they do, great, let me know and I will create a kit for those that wish to order the O-rings separately, for this application. If they are too stiff, put them back on the flybar, as retainers, for the bar weights, for which they were originally intended for.

Tip: The 4#3B needs a bit of slop in the rotor head. Too stiff of an o- ring dampers will make the helicopter to hard to control, too light of a dampers will make it too loose and the blades will flop all over.

The controls, links , swashplate, these need to be adjusted, as precise as possible, for better and more precise control. The MIA Swashplate standoff kits I supply with 3 O-rings, to take up any slack more precisely, between the swashplate and the top ball bearing of the main post, addresses this area.
The MIA Deluxe FLybar with tip weights adresses more stability. So I think you will be fine! be patient and give yourself a chance with the 4#3B. You are not alone.
For as many upgrades as you offer on a 4#3B, you should be selling your own version of the heli !! It's the same for many other heli's. Why bother buying a new heli if you're going to end up throwing 1/2 of it away?!! If you won't offer your own version, you should do a build with all of your parts and what parts have to be bought to complete the whole heli.
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Old Oct 23, 2008, 11:14 AM
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Old Oct 23, 2008, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metieval
LOL that thought crossed my mind. If you leave it stock, buy stock.
If you are going to upgrade and change things.... better off just buying parts and pieces and building one.
It would cost way more than just getting the kit.

Add up the cost of the minimum parts you would need and it's up close to $150 (B parts). That's without the stock tail parts (using the MIA frame direct drive parts), for stock geared tail add $10. Getting the plastic A parts instead of the Al B parts saves about $18. That includes a battery but no charger ($7) and no tx($30). Parts to make it full stock add about $20. Parts prices don't vary that much between stores, so it would only be a couple $ different depending on where you buy.

You can get a barebones 4#3B from Terence for $110 shipped, full kit most places after you add shipping is under $150.

Ever hear that to build a car from spare parts would cost a fortune, same thing, the mark up on each part adds up fast.
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 03:21 AM
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The concern of buying parts vs kits is overshadowed by the cost of assembly and testing in the USA. It's an interesting idea any how. May I suggest buying the kit and then selling the parts that have been replaced.

The 4#3b RTF is only $100 in the USA brand new. Why would any one want to buy the the bare bone version for $110 and have it shipped all the way from Asia?

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Old Oct 24, 2008, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axellehmannair
The concern of buying parts vs kits is overshadowed by the cost of assembly and testing in the USA. It's an interesting idea any how. May I suggest buying the kit and then selling the parts that have been replaced.

The 4#3b RTF is only $100 in the USA brand new. Why would any one want to buy the the bare bone version for $110 and have it shipped all the way from Asia?
Yes, I was assuming you would assemble it yourself, if someone was buying parts then building a complete heli for resale the labor costs would add even more to the already high cost of the individual parts.

Been rehashed in other threads, after you add shipping those $100 4#3Bs end up costing around $125 -$140. If you can find a place selling a $100 heli with actual shipping cost (less than $10 for priority mail) that would be a deal.
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 11:25 AM
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I am going to be picking up a 4#3b with some spare batteries from wowhobbies. How long does it take to charge one of these batteries with the stock charger? What spares should I pick up so I don't have to place another order immediately due to crashes? Are the skids a weak point, they look like they are? I was thinking on getting a MIA frame since they look more robust but not sure if it's really necessary. Also didn't someone(thesteve I think) make a 1s converter for spektrum receivers?

Thanks in advance,
Jared
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 01:05 PM
I HOOVER because I SUCK!
Portland,Oregon U.S.A.
Joined Sep 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFedDSM
I am going to be picking up a 4#3b with some spare batteries from wowhobbies. How long does it take to charge one of these batteries with the stock charger? What spares should I pick up so I don't have to place another order immediately due to crashes? Are the skids a weak point, they look like they are? I was thinking on getting a MIA frame since they look more robust but not sure if it's really necessary. Also didn't someone(thesteve I think) make a 1s converter for spektrum receivers?

Thanks in advance,
Jared
ok spares list

again!

motors
booms
screwkit
blades
bearings
frame
misc small bits-paddles,links t/r blades etc

that is about order of importance- though might move screw kit to #1

its always the part you dont have that breaks

booms will usually go first for noobs

most lhs carry the alu tube in proper diameter cheap- good learning boom

learn outside over grass if possible-this heli is fast - so more room to pop her off the ground, and try to balance her!- kill throttle-lands in grass-no damage- pick up -try again

personally think slight wind is better than small space to learn in

small landing pad -pop her up quick- small cyclic movements

when she escapes your control- kill the throttle and try again


if you have flown bigger heli, your reaction are going to be slow

once you can keep it hovering- start practicing sloooow piros

just my thoughts

mk
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microkites
ok spares list

again!

motors
booms
screwkit
blades
bearings
frame
misc small bits-paddles,links t/r blades etc

that is about order of importance- though might move screw kit to #1

its always the part you dont have that breaks

booms will usually go first for noobs

most lhs carry the alu tube in proper diameter cheap- good learning boom

learn outside over grass if possible-this heli is fast - so more room to pop her off the ground, and try to balance her!- kill throttle-lands in grass-no damage- pick up -try again

personally think slight wind is better than small space to learn in

small landing pad -pop her up quick- small cyclic movements

when she escapes your control- kill the throttle and try again


if you have flown bigger heli, your reaction are going to be slow

once you can keep it hovering- start practicing sloooow piros

just my thoughts

mk
Thank you mk, that sounds like a good plan. I am just learning bigger helis and the problem is I won't be able to practice during the week anymore because there is not enough light. Not getting practice in means it will be longer before I can fly my larger helis correctly. I am picking this one up to keep me sharp for the winter
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Old Oct 24, 2008, 02:12 PM
I HOOVER because I SUCK!
Portland,Oregon U.S.A.
Joined Sep 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForceFedDSM
Thank you mk, that sounds like a good plan. I am just learning bigger helis and the problem is I won't be able to practice during the week anymore because there is not enough light. Not getting practice in means it will be longer before I can fly my larger helis correctly. I am picking this one up to keep me sharp for the winter

oh -it will keep you sharp all right!

if youve flown larger helis this wont be too bad to learn for you

limiting your cyclic response by moving servo balls inward- or dial down ext on 4in1

if it really is too squirrely for you- try a little weight on flybar- bearings work well or small nuts



mk
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