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Old Oct 02, 2008, 11:50 PM
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United States, FL, Jacksonville
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OK, here's some ways of looking at adding the LG to your 5G6, or 5G6-1 for looks, while keeping performance in mind.
Stock LG weighs 0.6g
Tuff LG weighs 2.2g
weight increase 1.6g

1.6 g isn't that much, if I can lose some weight off the extra frame parts, and maybe shorten the struts slightly (I don't think that would hurt the looks Mario. It actually looks much higher than stock and it would be less materials used per kit...) that may get it down to around 1g of added weight over stock or less.

That's not bad at all and I think the new gearing on the 5G6-1 wouldn't even notice it. If you put it on a 2.4g 5G6 that already weighs less than it's FM brother, you are still 3-4g lighter than the oribinal 5G6 weight.

Mario, you could even consider useing a slightly smaller diameter on the strut material as well. This would look more scale and reduce weight further. I know the thicker the "tuff"er, but I think they would still be more than strong enough if a mm or so thinner. Though i understand keeping a uniform stock size among all the designs for all helis is easier to maintain.
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Old Oct 02, 2008, 11:59 PM
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Here's the other thing that got me looking at Mario's LG. I don't know who's video this is. I found it on Youtube the other day and was blown away by the blue 5G6 that comes in at the middle of the film (around 1:25, Edit: actually, I think the whole film is about it ). This heli is gorgeous and the builder is an artist!

I'm not sure about the heat sinks or the tail design, but they sure look cool. The main thing is the LG. See how short they are? I think they are from Mario's 4#3 kit but modified. I could be wrong. I do know Mario's kits are the closest to this design that I can find.
I just love the way the heli sits with this setup. I'm not saying the struts need be this short, but they can be.
Modified Walkera 5G6 outdoor flight #3 (6 min 39 sec)
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Old Oct 03, 2008, 01:50 AM
flying beam
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through the Looking Glass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Azimov
Here's the other thing that got me looking at Mario's LG. I don't know who's video this is. I found it on Youtube the other day and was blown away by the blue 5G6 that comes in at the middle of the film (around 1:25, Edit: actually, I think the whole film is about it ). This heli is gorgeous and the builder is an artist!

I'm not sure about the heat sinks or the tail design, but they sure look cool. The main thing is the LG. See how short they are? I think they are from Mario's 4#3 kit but modified. I could be wrong. I do know Mario's kits are the closest to this design that I can find.
I just love the way the heli sits with this setup. I'm not saying the struts need be this short, but they can be.
Hi Azimov,

I saw this vid some time ago, and I agree with you the Lg looks awesome (heck the all heli is, and I would like to know where to find those LG) the guy only writes about "toyheli" LG.

I agree to that the Lg for the 5g6 is a little to taller for my taste, but it won't stop me to buy them eventually, and others goodies from MArio's site (just waiting for my better half to forgot that in 6 months in this hobby I already bought 7 choppers, and a lot of parts and goodies ).

@MArio did you happens (I know you are a busy man, all these goodies for our helis) to find the time to post the 4#3 modified models for Realflight on you web site, can't find them

Paulo.
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Old Oct 03, 2008, 05:46 PM
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More Tips and Performance Info on Coaxial Helicopters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azimov
OK, here's some ways of looking at adding the LG to your 5G6, or 5G6-1 for looks, while keeping performance in mind.
Stock LG weighs 0.6g
Tuff LG weighs 2.2g
weight increase 1.6g

1.6 g isn't that much, if I can lose some weight off the extra frame parts, and maybe shorten the struts slightly (I don't think that would hurt the looks Mario. It actually looks much higher than stock and it would be less materials used per kit...) that may get it down to around 1g of added weight over stock or less.

That's not bad at all and I think the new gearing on the 5G6-1 wouldn't even notice it. If you put it on a 2.4g 5G6 that already weighs less than it's FM brother, you are still 3-4g lighter than the oribinal 5G6 weight.

Mario, you could even consider useing a slightly smaller diameter on the strut material as well. This would look more scale and reduce weight further. I know the thicker the "tuff"er, but I think they would still be more than strong enough if a mm or so thinner. Though i understand keeping a uniform stock size among all the designs for all helis is easier to maintain.

I appreciate your post, in the many years of making hobby products, I have considered all your suggestions, but there is a balance and compromize that has to be met in considering Weight, Cost, Material Availability and Manufacturing of such.

I love the TUFF LG for all the reasons I have already mentioned before, and although I have also conisdered using smaller diameter tubing, and I have done so on the Red 2005 MIA Mosca prototype (See picture below) I don't plan on changing the current one because the existing diameter works great.


Trimming the Struts

You can shorten the struts, as you suggested, by cutting 1/8 inch off each end X4 that would certainly put the TUFF LG in the 1.5 gms weight. However, in MO, you loose the more proportionate look.

While keeping weight off is desireable from a flying model, for best performance, it also helps to do it in the right areas.

The Landing Gear is not the best place to remove weight from, if you want a more stable helicopter. This is very easy to ilustrate, if you have an RC sim like Real Flight G3.5 or similar. Just go into any model an make the LG weight lighter, almost next to nothing, fly it then try it with a heavier LG and see how the model behaves. The same occurs in real models. Of course, you don't want to make the LG too heavy either, because this will also affect performance. In Model design there is the ideal CG of the model that most of us are familiar with, but depending how heavy your model ends up in the nose, rotor LG or tail, this also affects roll and pitch flight characteristics.

My Experience in designingg helicopters and having conducted tests after tests , it has shown that these little helicopter like the 4#3 and 5G6 work best with a landing gear that is between 2.0 and 2.5 grams.

TIPS:

Ideally where weight should be removed for best performance.


Overall Up Weight but in particular:
The boom,
The tail rotor
The Blades

Ideally where weight should be kept or added for better stability

The Flybar Tip Weights,
The Landing Gear, Skids


About Coaxials

In general Coaxial or counterrotating blade helicopters are inherently stable due to rotors cancelling out each other's counter-rotor torques. However because of these characteristics, they like to want to remain stable in hover, this is what makes these machines great models for beginners, but for more advanced flights, pushing them in forward flight requires the assistance of additional control or simply a fin stabilizer placed at the correct distance and angle. One real helicopter that uses this method of control or lets say forward flight control to some degree, is the Apache helicopter with a controllable horizontal fin at the rear of the vertical fin stabilizer. Similar is done with Coaxial and even single rotor models and depending on the angle and distance from the main axle or main rotor shaft, it can have some very interesting effects.

The video in you tube you posted of that modified 5G6 is using the larger 5G6 blades. MY helicopter uses the stock 5-6 Blades with tip extenders, which I forgot to mention before and also uses a vertical and angle horizontal stabilizer, but the way I place them on the boom, is a little different than that shown in the video you posted. Similar effect though, my boom is longer and probably lighter, keeping in line with my design approach to these types of helis.
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Old Oct 03, 2008, 06:23 PM
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Mario,I myself have a set of the Tuffstruts and I know they can handle virtually anything the 4#3B will throw at them,But Iam wondering if you would have a small piece of waste tube where you can demonstrate just how much these struts will handle.
I think some people would be amazed at the suspension these also provide.
If people fly over hard areas,I think the little extra weight is nothing compared to the safety they provide for the rest of the heli on hard landings.
Jason
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Old Oct 03, 2008, 06:55 PM
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Mario, Thanks for the very informative post. The stability issue as it relates to where the weight needs to be is the single most convincing argument I have ever seen for a bit more weight on the struts and is completely spot on. I'm ordering a couple sets to play with. Don't wince if I trim them a tad though.
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Old Oct 03, 2008, 07:47 PM
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I like the fact that the tuff struts can handle a lot but I dont like the fact that they get wonky easily and need rebending to get it level again. I also had to screw holes into the the thing as some were not in the right place. Every millimeter is important on this heli. Also if you got that green rod that connects the two parts of the skids together pushed up into the tube your buggered because you cannot push them out. I learnt that the hard way.
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Old Oct 03, 2008, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
Your welcome Azi. Just making sure you have all the information.

OK here is some more work that I am doing on the old 5-6 with the retrofits mentioned. In this following photo I installed the LG with the G10 skids, notice the angled struts, that is because the skids are made with angled press fit pegs as part of the design, these are the one I like best. It adds another .2 grams but it flies very nicely. I have yet to add the tail fins, debating wether to add more color to the canopy with decals.
These skids look more improved. I like them much more than the usual tuff skids. Have you got them on your site?
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Old Oct 03, 2008, 11:17 PM
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mario, how much for a 4-3 2.4ghz with all your goodies preinstalled??
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Old Oct 04, 2008, 04:27 AM
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United States, FL, Jacksonville
Joined Oct 2006
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Quote:
Option 1 (Vertical Strut Style) :

* Molded Struts
* Molded Skids and CA Glue on Mounting pegs.
* G10 Strut Supports

This provides a LG structure that places the struts vertical (like in the previous white canopy picture)

Option 2 (Angled Strut Style), also happens to be my favorite:

* Molded Struts
* G10 Skids (Press Fit inside the ends of the Struts)
* G10 Strut Supports
Don't see these options as a choice on your site yet Mario. Was thinking of checking out both styles.
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Old Oct 04, 2008, 05:48 AM
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Super Facelift Video for Converting an older 5-6.

Walkera 5G6, 5-6, 5#6, Helicopter Super Facelift!!! (9 min 12 sec)


This video is about the TUFF struts I make for the Walkera 5G6, but it also applies to the 4#3 except for the way they are mounted onto the frame.


Mal,
Actually the G10 skids were done with the first TUFF LTG kits I made for the 4#3, but the general concensous was that people prefered a tubular TUFF skids, but I am now offering both. This video hopefully shows the pros and cons of both so that it helps viewers select what they want.

Azi, I am working on some additional web pages. The products I have have expanded and so I need to regroup the upgrades parts by categories, so hang in there while I do this. Meantime you can email me and ask for the specific LG kits you wish to purchase. You can select the Paypal tab for the existing one on my site x 2 and just indicate you want one with G10 skids and another with the Tuff Skids.

Captain, I am sorry but I do not sell complete Walkera helicopter kits with all the upgrades pre-installed. See John Wood at www.RcHobbyHelicopter.com for the helis and also MIA upgrades. I have not distributed the upgrades for this 5/6 to my distributors yet. So please Email me if you want these and they are not yet up on my site.

Inspired by Jason's response, thanks, I also did another video on the MIA TUFF Training Gear, to illustrate the use and attributes of such. The TUFF LG works with the same attributes and so, please watch closely these videos, if you have any questions about them or about how to assemble the MIA TUFF LG or the MIA TUFF Training Gear.

MIA TUFF TRAINING GEAR - HELI SAVER!!! For Blade mQX, mCPX, Walkera 4#3 and Similar Size Helis (3 min 54 sec)
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Old Oct 04, 2008, 08:28 AM
Bertrand MICHELS
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Mario, no news about availability of your wooden blades for 4#3 ??
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Old Oct 04, 2008, 10:42 AM
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华科尔新出的4#3 q 和 4g3
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Old Oct 05, 2008, 11:06 AM
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Is it me or does the 4#3Q body look like foam?
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Old Oct 05, 2008, 11:11 AM
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I was thinking that myself.
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