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Old Aug 10, 2008, 12:57 PM
Vegas Flyer
superblue's Avatar
Las Vegas
Joined Jul 2008
154 Posts
Brushless

Hey all,
I am on the list patiently awaiting the Rigid frame. Can't wait! I also have ordered the TheSteve dual converter and only going to upgrade the main for now and then later the tail. The Steve told me that it works dual now. Also in his instructions page he uses the same main pinion gear that the stock motor uses. he just drills or reams the hole a little bigger so it will fit the motor shaft. I recommend using a temp gauge to help figure out what pinion gear to use. along with battery time. This is what I figure I will have to try...there are lots of little gears in servo's...hmmm

Have any of you guys tried this? reaming the stock pinion?

Also after upgrading the heli with the stabilizer weights and the swashplate kit and balancing the blades and shimming the rotor head with micro washers I can get it to hands off hover for like 5-10 seconds (with my air conditioner off)..Surprised all the tweaking paid off with such drastic results. I didn't really think that it would make such a difference. I think the rigid frame will help as well...with the longer tail boom,, can't wait for the 4g3....indoor inverted flight,,,what could be better?

Todd
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Old Aug 10, 2008, 08:12 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonjetski
Not to worry,
I just had a fly and it went for 6 minutes 20 seconds.
That was with a 9 tooth pinion.I think the 7 tooth would be too small for a 1.5mm shaft.
I will look around for a larger main gear.Maybe 97 would be good with the 9 tooth pinion.
Jason
That would work too!
Good Luck!
Cheers, johnw
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Old Aug 11, 2008, 01:46 AM
Registered User
Patras, Greece
Joined May 2007
1,291 Posts
MIA tail mod, balancer and my helis

Hi.
I love this heli and I share with you my balancer and their photos.
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Old Aug 11, 2008, 08:28 AM
Micro Helicopter Electrician
1Hammer's Avatar
Central California Coast
Joined May 2008
2,669 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by takiss
Hi.
I love this heli and I share with you my balancer and their photos.
I've done the same tail mod. If you add some reinforcing material to the top and bottom of the white compression block for strength, the geared MIA tail mod is very sturdy and crash worthy.

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Old Aug 12, 2008, 02:50 AM
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CULIACAN SINALOA MEXICO
Joined Aug 2005
550 Posts
dos this thread contains any mods for the #52. ????????????????
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Old Aug 14, 2008, 11:45 PM
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MarioIArguello's Avatar
Joined Jun 2006
1,421 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by raptorddd
dos this thread contains any mods for the #52. ????????????????

http://www.micro-flight.com/Walkera%2052%20Videos.htm

This videos in the link, contain step by step on the MIA modification for the #52. This involves a new design, stronger bolt on G10 frame, stronger boom, and MIA TUFF LG. The frame uses the exisiting #52 plastic ball bearing blocks,
as support for the main frame's main mast support.
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 12:06 AM
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More on the MIA TUFF LG for the 4#3s

Here are some additional photos that I think will answer some questions I've been getting via email, on the installation of the MIA TUFF LG Kit, for the 4#3's.

The TUFF Struts have 4 pre-drilled holes, the 2 inner most holes are used for direct mounting to the stock 4#3 frames. The holes are slightly smaller than the screws supplied with the kit, this is done so they have some grab throughout the thickness of the strut, but you can easily allow the entry of the screw by taking the tip of a small philips screwdriver and enlarging the opening of the strut hole, just a tad bit!, I think someone mentioned using a 1.2 mm drill bit to enlarge the holes so they allow the screws to match better with the base plate holes of the stock 4#3. This is fine too, if you have such size drill bit but it is not required. These photos shows two possible installations using the MIA TUFF LG for the 4#3.

First one is a retrofit for the MIA Frames, shown with the frame battery and motor plates only to illustrate the install of the Struts with the supplied spacer white pegs. The Second one is a a direct install to the stock 4#3.

The screws supplied with the kits are 0-80 machine screws, selected for two purposes.

1) Can be used, just fine, with plastic parts as a self threading screw. such as direct install to the stock 4#3 plastic frame, so long as your screw hole on the plastic frame is not larger than the actual screw OD diameter.

2) Can be also used with 0-80 nuts, as are provided in some other MIA tiny heli applications.

The screws supplied, depending on the application, also, are two types:

Pan or Flat Head.

Flat Head provides a "flush installation", via a plate that has the holes chanfered, as required when installing the TUFF strut kit with the white pegs, on the MIA Frames, from the top, such as to clear the base of the servos. See first photo, top plate.

The Pan head are used for all other applications, not requireing chanfering, or sometimes called, counter-sinking, of the screw hole, such as the second photograph shows.
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 01:04 AM
Registered User
Australia...we live inverted.
Joined May 2008
5,409 Posts
And heres my modified tuff lg with std battery tray on a 4#3B frame. Used the Losi screws to fit. Rebent all the landing gear, made it far smaller and reduced the green sleave parts as much as possible for weight benifit. No more carpet snags for me!

And my Mia CF look canopy also modified to accept std canopy grommets for fitment with cf rod in the forward hole as well as trimming to clear Tuff struts oh and ground as it sure is a low rider now!

Amp
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Old Aug 15, 2008, 04:27 AM
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Joined Jun 2006
1,421 Posts
Blade Tip Extenders

Ampdraw, nice pics. Lowriders are not so much my favorites since the battery sits too low, to the ground, and one has to be careful not to land on a hard object like a rock. This will ruin your battery if a hole is formed from the impact. For indoors is OK. Consider also that the higher LG Strut allows some spring room, for hard landings and also protects the canopy. The heli will also have better pendulum stability when the skids sit further from the base of the frame.

Having said that, I respect your choice of customization. We all do things differently and there is really no wrong or right way, so long as you are having fun with it and it is working for you the way you like it. Thanks for taking the time to share your pics and Have fun!

Here is something new I have been working on for the 4#3. I didn't have a spare set of 4#3B, blades so I took the original stock 4#3 blades and was testing with various tip extender shapes and sizes to provide the helicopter more lift and more stability. This heli flies very nice with them. As per the photograph, you can see I am also using the other MIA mods like the DeLuxe Flybar upgrade which makes the helicopter very stable. These small tricks and upgrades can really add to a heli that is far more controllable in smaller areas than the original stock product offers.

I will have these at my site for sale in a kit, and in various color to match the MIA Edge Canopies.

Want to make your own?

Mine, as in the kit, are premolded already to right curvature and predetermined length, to take out some of the guesswork, but if you experiment a little with a DIY version, should work also.

If you wish to make your own and test to see how this idea works, simply take a piece of mylar or thin rigid plastic, or even cardstock, and curve the tip to similar curvature of stock blade. A tip from another 4#3 broken blade, or a piece of plastic from a plastic cup, will also work.

You don't want the tip too wide, because this will introduce flutter. Keep it narrow, stiff but light.

Cut a rectangle of about 1.25 x .75 inches, then simply glue with CA to the tip of the underside of the stock blade at desired length. To allow for anywhere from 1/4" to 3/4" in extra blade length, simply trim to desired length, leaving about 1/4" for gluing. You can experiment with various lengths, to suit your particular custom heli setup or simply follow my photograph as a reference.

I am flying this heli with a stock motor, with the MIA extended (longer) solid boom, and direct tail drive, with stock and and own tail blades, it also works just the same with the MIA upgrade frame with the longer booms. Very stable.
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 01:28 PM
Bertrand MICHELS
bmaaa's Avatar
Belgium
Joined Nov 2003
1,411 Posts
Thanks for your advices. so I ordered one 4#3B plus a LOT of spare parts and spare motors.

I will fine tune it: I will NOT go brushless, but instead I will try to make it as light as possible (by reducing the weight, I will make life easier for the motors, and therefore reduce the motor over-heat & short life span issue)


So....have you tried those 1,6 grammes servos:

http://www.falconmodels.uk.com/acata...tion_page.html

or more realisticaly those 2 grammes servos :

http://www.wes-technik.de/English/light_ng.htm




Also, for the AC they have a 1,4 gramme brushless :
http://www.wes-technik.de/English/Motors-Brushless.htm




and they also have a 1,6 Grammes dual brushless ESC for helico that drive BOTH the AC and the main motors :

http://www.wes-technik.de/English/controller.htm

1 - High-Frequency-Controller HF250 twin:

this controller consists of two Highfrequency controller and has been developed especially for use in micro helicopters. One of the controller is used for the main rotor motor - the second controller on the PCB is used to control the tail rotor - both with an extremely high 256step sensitivity. With the 250kHz clock frequency they allow a long life for both - the main motor and the tail motor.

Price 96,00 Euro/ pcs.
Dimensions (mm): 17 x 16 x 7
Mass (without wires): 1,6 g
Mass (with wires): 2,7 g
Clock Frequency 250 kHz
All other technical data are the same as
for the HF100 described above.


2 - High-Frequency-Controller HF100 Heli:

this controller has been developed especially for an extremely sensitive 256 step control for optimized operation of Helicopter tail rotor motors e.g. for the Eco Piccolo. The high clock frequency of 100 kHz allows a long lifetime for your tailmotor even if a high battery supply voltage of 11V from 3 cells Li-Ion batteries is applied to your controller.

Preis 64,00 / pcs. Dimensions (mm): 17 x 8 x 7
Mass (without wires): 1 g
Mass (with wires): 2 g
All other technical data are the same as
for the HF100 described above.


.... so I am now in the race for a 40gr 4#3B


OH, one more question: I read that some folks have succefully reduced the lengh of the blades (or have made them thinner) in order to increase the rotor RPM. This has 2 main advantages apparently: reduce the motor consumption and make the heli more stable (thanks to higher head speed).
--> is it true ? If YES, for the lazy guys like me , are there some smaller blades from other Micro-heli that will be directly at the right size ?
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 01:34 PM
I HOOVER because I SUCK!
Portland,Oregon U.S.A.
Joined Sep 2007
5,141 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaaa
Thanks for your advices. so I ordered one 4#3B plus a LOT of spare parts and spare motors.

I will fine tune it: I will NOT go brushless, but instead I will try to make it as light as possible (by reducing the weight, I will make life easier for the motors, and therefore reduce the motor over-heat & short life span issue)


So....have you tried those 1,6 grammes servos:

http://www.falconmodels.uk.com/acata...tion_page.html

or more realisticaly those 2 grammes servos :

http://www.wes-technik.de/English/light_ng.htm




Also, for the AC they have a 1,4 gramme brushless :
http://www.wes-technik.de/English/Motors-Brushless.htm




and they also have a 1,6 Grammes dual brushless ESC for helico that drive BOTH the AC and the main motors :

http://www.wes-technik.de/English/controller.htm

1 - High-Frequency-Controller HF250 twin:

this controller consists of two Highfrequency controller and has been developed especially for use in micro helicopters. One of the controller is used for the main rotor motor - the second controller on the PCB is used to control the tail rotor - both with an extremely high 256step sensitivity. With the 250kHz clock frequency they allow a long life for both - the main motor and the tail motor.

Price 96,00 Euro/ pcs.
Dimensions (mm): 17 x 16 x 7
Mass (without wires): 1,6 g
Mass (with wires): 2,7 g
Clock Frequency 250 kHz
All other technical data are the same as
for the HF100 described above.


2 - High-Frequency-Controller HF100 Heli:

this controller has been developed especially for an extremely sensitive 256 step control for optimized operation of Helicopter tail rotor motors e.g. for the Eco Piccolo. The high clock frequency of 100 kHz allows a long lifetime for your tailmotor even if a high battery supply voltage of 11V from 3 cells Li-Ion batteries is applied to your controller.

Preis 64,00 / pcs. Dimensions (mm): 17 x 8 x 7
Mass (without wires): 1 g
Mass (with wires): 2 g
All other technical data are the same as
for the HF100 described above.


.... so I am now in the race for a 40gr 4#3B


OH, one more question: I read that some folks have succefully reduced the lengh of the blades (or have made them thinner) in order to increase the rotor RPM. This has 2 main advantages apparently: reduce the motor consumption and make the heli more stable (thanks to higher head speed).
--> is it true ? If YES, for the lazy guys like me , are there some smaller blades from other Micro-heli that will be directly at the right size ?
those esc had been tried in original 4#3 thread- they have their problems- and the price is outrageous!

mk
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 02:44 PM
Bertrand MICHELS
bmaaa's Avatar
Belgium
Joined Nov 2003
1,411 Posts
MK, can you point me to the plave in the original 4#3 thread where the HF100-250 Esc is mentioned. thanks
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 02:58 PM
I HOOVER because I SUCK!
Portland,Oregon U.S.A.
Joined Sep 2007
5,141 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaaa
MK, can you point me to the plave in the original 4#3 thread where the HF100-250 Esc is mentioned. thanks
dont have it tagged-but it was spainman who had tested it-go through his posts- or a search using yge-whatever should get you it


here is one post: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...bl#post9212147
mk
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 04:08 PM
Time wounds all heels.
Phoenix, AZ
Joined Jul 2001
832 Posts
I have tried the blade extensions in a couple variations now, and the work great. The first set I did a month or so ago right after I got the B. Just cut V1 blades and CA'd to the underside of V2 blades...

worked great, much less coning, and a cool whup-whup sound, but fairly heavy since i used the majority of the blade to increase stiffness.


2 more variations, both using pieces from broken blades (with the exception of the V2 set, thanks Kelley!).

This heli was not flying. It had just gotten too portly to lift effectively and would settle into a hover just off the ground. Tried motor changes, taking off the flybar weights, was almost ready to start shaving servos. Now flies great, plenty of power. Once I changed to the MIA frame and aluminum upgrades, I couldnt really fly on my tired batteries and motors, which was why I tried the blade extensions originally. These smaller tip extensions are better, less weight and more power.
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Old Aug 17, 2008, 04:58 PM
Fly, fix, repeat
oobly's Avatar
Tampere, Finland
Joined Feb 2007
961 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmaaa
...I ordered one 4#3B...I will try to make it as light as possible...

So....have you tried those 1,6 grammes servos:
or more realisticaly those 2 grammes servos :
Also, for the AC they have a 1,4 gramme brushless :

and they also have a 1,6 Grammes dual brushless ESC for helico that drive BOTH the AC and the main motors :
1 - High-Frequency-Controller HF250 twin:

OH, one more question: I read that some folks have succefully reduced the lengh of the blades (or have made them thinner) in order to increase the rotor RPM. This has 2 main advantages apparently: reduce the motor consumption and make the heli more stable (thanks to higher head speed).
--> is it true ? If YES, for the lazy guys like me , are there some smaller blades from other Micro-heli that will be directly at the right size ?
Hi,

spainman tried the YGE4-BL and found it had problems driving the Losi motor. The other controllers you mention have a 1.5A continuous rating. That isn't enough for the main motor.

If you are planning on using all separates, you could go for a YGE6 and a YGE3 to control the original main and tail motors, a lightened AR6300 receiver (assuming you already have a DX6i or DX7) and a Logictech 2100T gyro (2.7g when lightened). Total cost of electronics: around 280 euros! (without replacing servos.. with those Wes-Techniks you're looking at 400 euros plus)

For a cheaper set you could use an AR6100, Pixie7 brushed ESCs and an Esky 704A gyro. Total: around 130 euros.

I'm not sure what the original 4in1 weighs, but I think it may be lighter than the combined weight of a lightened AR6300, lightened gyro and 2 speed controllers. And the original 2.4GHz radio and gyro work pretty well.

If you want to just change the speed controllers you will need to add a TheSteve converter, too, since there is no contact point on the 4in1 you can get a standard servo signal for the throttle from, only a PWM motor signal.

OR..... you can just buy a bunch of spare main motors. They are cheap and quick and easy to replace. If you kill the throttle before crashing they can last long time, too.

For servos, I think you will find that the Falcon servos won't be as fast and accurate as the original 4#3B servos and the price of the Wes-Techinks is crazy. The originals can be lightened to 2.3g or less if you are willing to do a little work: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=905947

You may want to get a 4#3A instead of the B if you are really after saving weight. It flies just as well, but weighs less without the metal 'bling' parts. You can make the heli lighter by taking off the plastic housing of the receiver and leaving the canopy off. Maybe even trimming the frame a little.

Many people had success with the original V1 4#3 with making the blades narrower (not shorter). For the 4#3A/B you can just put V1 blades on since they are narrower than the A/B blades.

Good luck and have fun,

-Oobly
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