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Old May 11, 2008, 05:51 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
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???

Quote:
Originally Posted by freespirit64
mario slowly , stay funky
what are you trying to say???........LOL..
-johnw
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Old May 12, 2008, 01:24 AM
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pristo82's Avatar
Nottingham UK
Joined Jan 2007
288 Posts
mario, have you ever done any mods for the micron v2 ?
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Old May 12, 2008, 02:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pristo82
mario, have you ever done any mods for the micron v2 ?
No, but I did some for the V1, a while back, because the Micron V1 was very similar to this helicopter, that I did before the micron came out. So the frame and blades were interchangeable. Why the V2?
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Old May 12, 2008, 02:37 AM
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All, I'm still stuck here with my dead spot in the tail motor.

I did the test that Mario suggested, and swapped the main & tail position in the receiver, and with the main in the tail slot, it did NOT get the dead spot, and the tail motor ran great in the main spot.

Obviously, I can't fly it that way.
But it does beg the questions of:

1) Why didn't the main motor fail at the same place the tail motor does when it's plugged into that slot.

2) How do I fix this? Or is it just time to buy a new receiver? (at which point, I'll probably scrap the heli. It needs a receiver, and a servo (I have one that jitters constantly!). It seems I've worked on this little heli more than I've flown it.
Might be time to scrap it, and buy a v2

But... Is there another solution to the dead spot in the tail motor?
I'd sure appreciate some guidance here!

Thanks!!
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Old May 12, 2008, 02:46 AM
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USA, MN, Brainerd
Joined Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtwin
All, I'm still stuck here with my dead spot in the tail motor.

I did the test that Mario suggested, and swapped the main & tail position in the receiver, and with the main in the tail slot, it did NOT get the dead spot, and the tail motor ran great in the main spot.

Obviously, I can't fly it that way.
But it does beg the questions of:

1) Why didn't the main motor fail at the same place the tail motor does when it's plugged into that slot.

2) How do I fix this? Or is it just time to buy a new receiver? (at which point, I'll probably scrap the heli. It needs a receiver, and a servo (I have one that jitters constantly!). It seems I've worked on this little heli more than I've flown it.
Might be time to scrap it, and buy a v2

But... Is there another solution to the dead spot in the tail motor?
I'd sure appreciate some guidance here!

Thanks!!

Dont defect so easily.

Save the cash, skip the Micron, and go brushless. You could get all the gear and a new receiver for less than the Micron anyway.
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Old May 12, 2008, 02:53 AM
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Joined Mar 2008
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No plans on a micron. By v2, I meant the 4#3B (v2).
Actually, my next heli build will be an EXI 450 sized buzz-saw!

I have no plans to do the BL mod to this one. I'd just really like to find out what causes my tail motor to stop spinning at about 3/4 throttle.

It is not:
The Tx
The wires
The tail motor (I've tried 3 of them now).

The only thing left is the Rx.
But, when I plug the main motor into the tail motor slot, it DOES NOT exhibit the same behaivour. It runs smooth all the way up.
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Old May 12, 2008, 03:04 AM
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USA, MN, Brainerd
Joined Feb 2008
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It's gremlins, j/k

have you tried swapping the main motor out? Maybe there is some sort of interference, or resonance coming from the main motor at around 3/4 speed that glitches the esc for the tail motor. That could explain why when you swap main and tail you don't see it happening.
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Old May 12, 2008, 03:14 AM
Micro-Heli-Concepts
jasonjetski's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Blacktown
Joined Dec 2006
4,984 Posts
Vtwin,
Have you tried it with the tail prop off?
Naturally it wont fly like this but you can spin it up in your hand and watch the tail motor spin.
Or try another tail prop as a direct drive.
If all else fails..........I flew for 2 days using a main motor glued to the top front of the tail housing.
I had to trim the hell out of it though due to the extra weight in the tail and the extra power in the tail.
Jason
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Old May 12, 2008, 03:18 AM
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nexgen's Avatar
USA, MN, Brainerd
Joined Feb 2008
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Funky flight times

speaking of ESC's and 4 in 1's, I have a little quandry with my heli as well.

I think I saw someone else on this thread (or the regular 4#3 thread) with the same problem, but I dot remember if there was a solution.

My heli will fly fine for a bout 2-4 minutes, and then lose power so much that it will only lift up about 2-3 inches, bobbing around in ground effect. If I let it sit for a bit, and then punch it, it will stay up, but the same cycle happens again. The longer I let it sit, the longer it stays up after the rest.


Now I just spent the whole day rebuilding my heli with ALL NEW parts (including my second spiffy G-10 rigid skid frame, had to plug it since this IS the G-10 thread after all) except the 4 in 1. I tediously balanced and tuned the it out of it until I was blue in the face, so I know it is not tracking, gearing, motors, bearings, etc... I also have than's LiGlow lipo alarm/light kit installed so I know it is not a battery problem because I would see that in the light output.

I should let you know that at one time I landed the heli in my dogs water dish. I immediately grabbed the thing, and pulled the plug. I let it dry and was off flying again the next day. the problem only surfaced recently.
It started happening about 10-15 flights ago, and it seems to come and go.

so what does the collective 4#3 conscience have to say.
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Old May 12, 2008, 03:22 AM
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Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtwin
All, I'm still stuck here with my dead spot in the tail motor.

I did the test that Mario suggested, and swapped the main & tail position in the receiver, and with the main in the tail slot, it did NOT get the dead spot, and the tail motor ran great in the main spot.

Obviously, I can't fly it that way.
But it does beg the questions of:

1) Why didn't the main motor fail at the same place the tail motor does when it's plugged into that slot.

2) How do I fix this? Or is it just time to buy a new receiver? (at which point, I'll probably scrap the heli. It needs a receiver, and a servo (I have one that jitters constantly!). It seems I've worked on this little heli more than I've flown it.
Might be time to scrap it, and buy a v2

But... Is there another solution to the dead spot in the tail motor?
I'd sure appreciate some guidance here!

Thanks!!
When you say receiver, I take it you mean 4 in 1 meaning, the whole stock controller, this has the receiver, gyro, mixer and ESCs as part of the controller.

It is probably easier and maybe better to simply keep the one you have for spare parts and purchase another one. If the product is out of warranty, send the thransmitter and receiver/controller combo to somone that can test it for you with electroninc test equipment. Some guys here or in the electronics forum of RCG may be able to help you there.

If you swapped motor connections on the controller and the motors ran fine with no dead spots, sounds like the controller is working fine. But could be a faulty electronic component, maybe your tail motor is actually pulling more current than your main, which shouln't if you swapped with stock components, and the circuitry for the speed control section is clipping the current, could be a safety feature in the electronics, hard to tell without testing the controller with electronic lab equipment.


Why did you swap motors in the first place? I missed this. And which motors did you swap them with.
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Old May 12, 2008, 03:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexgen
speaking of ESC's and 4 in 1's, I have a little quandry with my heli as well.

I think I saw someone else on this thread (or the regular 4#3 thread) with the same problem, but I dot remember if there was a solution.

My heli will fly fine for a bout 2-4 minutes, and then lose power so much that it will only lift up about 2-3 inches, bobbing around in ground effect. If I let it sit for a bit, and then punch it, it will stay up, but the same cycle happens again. The longer I let it sit, the longer it stays up after the rest.


Now I just spent the whole day rebuilding my heli with ALL NEW parts (including my second spiffy G-10 rigid skid frame, had to plug it since this IS the G-10 thread after all) except the 4 in 1. I tediously balanced and tuned the it out of it until I was blue in the face, so I know it is not tracking, gearing, motors, bearings, etc... I also have than's LiGlow lipo alarm/light kit installed so I know it is not a battery problem because I would see that in the light output.

I should let you know that at one time I landed the heli in my dogs water dish. I immediately grabbed the thing, and pulled the plug. I let it dry and was off flying again the next day. the problem only surfaced recently.
It started happening about 10-15 flights ago, and it seems to come and go.

so what does the collective 4#3 conscience have to say.
Could be battery or controller.

How many lights are on the helicopter and where are you taking the current for those lights alarm from? Direct through the battery? As a mod to the controller? or using a Voltage/current regulator? Does this happen with a new fully charged battery also?

When your electronics lands on water, and if not fully dried, you should have blow dry it not let it air dry, with time, corrosion may build up on the contacts of the components, possibly rendering some areas in your controller faulty.
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Old May 12, 2008, 03:51 AM
Fly, fix, repeat
oobly's Avatar
Tampere, Finland
Joined Feb 2007
961 Posts
Vtwin,

Does the tail motor recover power if you push the throttle higher, or is it 3/4 throttle and above that it loses power?

If it is just a little 'notch' in the power curve, the main motor may not exhibit the same behaviour due to it's design. The tail motor is coreless and will react very quickly to changes in signal, the main motor is a standard design brushed motor with a heavy core which will have a smoother / slower reaction to signal changes.

If the motor doesn't recover power at higher throttle settings it could be that the main motor is drawing too much current and starving the tail motor somehow. Check for binding / friction somewhere.

I don't own one yet, but from what I have seen of the design the v2 should be both more stable and better in FFF. The o-ring mounted feathering shaft and better-fitting swash, etc. should improve the flight characteristics overall.

nexgen, could it possibly be related to motor heat? Do you have heatsinks on the motor? Another possibility is excess heat in the FET's of the ESC, but that is a guess more than anything.

-Oobly
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Old May 12, 2008, 03:59 AM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
It's the FET's in the speed controller getting hot. this is happening with the 2.4ghz recievers. i have seen this just reciently.
-johnw
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Old May 12, 2008, 04:04 AM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
Fully brushless Micron V2 video

just to spark something with mario. here is my full brushless conversion on my Micron V2.
RC HOBBY HELICOPTER VIDEO (1 min 37 sec)

cheers, johnw
www.rchobbyhelicopter.com
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Old May 12, 2008, 04:23 AM
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Joined Jun 2006
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Checking Gear Mesh - Paper technique.

Check the gear mesh on the main motor using a piece of paper between the gears to adjust for smooth gear mesh. The paper acts as a spacer, it should pass through the gears, not too tight not too loose, when the gears are rotated. This is probably the reason, some people may have problem with heli performing at fullests. Especially because the main motors have the mounting screws and every time you change them you have to adjust the gear mesh. If your mesh is too tight,flight times will be poor, also the controller is working harder by supplying more current to the motor than it should, this can lead to Mosfets getting hotter and if there is a safety feature on the controller, it will clip the current at a certain level, your heli will fly for about a few minutes than drop.

Improper gear mesh will rob power to the helicopter and drain your battery quicker.
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