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Old May 11, 2008, 12:52 AM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
geared tail on MIA frame/tail boom

Quote:
Originally Posted by r0shi
Oh, it's the bog-standard ebay ESC, steve's tucked in the 4-in-1, losi conversion. You can see my home made micro-antenna (that's a WD40 straw). I'm using an 11t pinion, which I guess is unusual.... It works well, but I sort of miss the ridiculous power of the 12t. The motor is definitely cooler, though. I haven't started timing flights yet, since I was still playing around with trim, and the geared tail using the stock geared tail mount.

To do this, I cut off the screw mount using an xacto. This gave me a fairly smooth ~1/4" cylinder on the end of the tail mount. The diameter of this was just small enough so that I could drill out one of the white plastic spacer blocks and mount the gear-case in one end and the boom in the other.

The only problem with this arrangement is that the plastic block I'm using isn't really long enough for the job, so I had to use copious CA to make it stay. If it were longer, I could trim more plastic on the tail mount and stick it in further. It would probably still need CA, but I'd feel a lot better about it. The shortness of the block also means that it doesn't stick on the boom as far as it should, so I used CA there as well. The result is pretty solid, though it can be twisted a bit as the shrink tubing slides on the boom. This isn't all bad, as it has allowed me to play around with twisting the tail rotor a few degrees up or down (I'm not convinced it does much of anything).

I have another G10 frame that I bought originally and tried to put together. It came out rather.... crooked (I'm new to this ). I chalked it up to learning and built this new one. I may de-bond the CA on the original one and salvage a longer plastic block, when and if the current setup falls apart.

The tragedy is that I actually would have had enough blocks, since the new assembly directions specify splitting one block in half to mount the landing gear to the main body. But I thought I was extra-clever so I split *both* blocks and used the two halves I liked the best. It wasn't until later when I started to consider how to mount a geared tail that I began to regret that decision.

Overall, the setup flies very well, and I found the tail much easier to trim and control with the geared setup. I did have some bad stability problems, but I've just realized that this is badly bent main shaft (I can't believe I didn't see it before ). I haven't gotten around to fixing that yet, as I've been too busy flying my HBFP outside I'm pretty confident, though, that once I take care of that last problem, it's going to be a very fine, rock solid flier.

Hope this helps somebody, somewhere, since I've gotten so much great info on these pages....

/alex.
You do know you can drill out the stock geared tailbox with a 1/8'' drill bit so it pushes onto the MIA tail boom. this saves weight! i posted this way back on the thread.
-johnw
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Old May 11, 2008, 12:58 AM
heliman, junior grade
nyc
Joined Jun 2007
30 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnIn2SonAZ
You do know you can drill out the stock geared tailbox with a 1/8'' drill bit so it pushes onto the MIA tail boom. this saves weight! i posted this way back on the thread.
-johnw
Sigh. Oh well, that's how it goes. I'll try that at some point when I'm changing the tail motor (inevitable). Do you drill the existing mounting hole or cut that off and drill right at the case?

Thanks for the tip. Even reading every single post, it's hard to stay on top of all the info in this thread.... gotta start bookmarking stuff...

cheers,
/alex.
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Old May 11, 2008, 01:09 AM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by r0shi
Sigh. Oh well, that's how it goes. I'll try that at some point when I'm changing the tail motor (inevitable). Do you drill the existing mounting hole or cut that off and drill right at the case?

Thanks for the tip. Even reading every single post, it's hard to stay on top of all the info in this thread.... gotta start bookmarking stuff...

cheers,
/alex.
Sorry you didn't see my post. you don't cut any of the stock tail box. just use a 1/8'' drill bit in your fingers and gently drill it out to fit over the MIA tail boom.
best regards, johnw
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Old May 11, 2008, 01:35 AM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2008
214 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
Check your tail motor connection first. Make sure there is no intermittent contact or wires loose on the tail end. Make sure you have a good tail motor.

Try pinpointing this a bit further. Work yout transmitter sticks for both the main and tail throttles, gently and see if perhaps it is the tranmitter stick that is causing this dead spot on the throttle.

Sometimes the tranmitter sticks loose contact on the potentiometers wiper blades or contacts and this casues irratic operation that can show up as dead spots on control. Especially if you are able to see throttle change at the upper and lower stick end points. Sometimes working the sticks by "jiggling it" to see if you have an intermittent stick contact, can tell you if this is where the problem is or not.

I am not sure what potientiometer quality is in the Walkera transmitter for the heli you have, but if they are the really cheap kind, this can be a possible cause.

The other cause can be electronics, especially if the Main throttle works fine but you don't have proportional tail throttle (The tail throttle should follow the main throttle), could be in the mixer or gyro section of the electronics, as well.
Thank you for the answer.
I went through all of that.
I'm on my third tail motor, with the same result.
I've checked the wires, and the connectors.
I don't believe that it's the Tx, because the main motor never hesitates, just the tail motor. That only leaves something with the electronics. Which really means ... buying a new receiver/4-in-one. (no, I'm not going to go nutz, and go for a ar6300 conversion!).
Even when the tail motor doesn't kick out, it won't hold at all. The heli is all over the place. It will suddenly spin 90*, or do a couple of piros, and it's anyone guess at where it will come out.
I also have 1 servo that jitters constantly. Sometimes more than others, but constant.

So, basically, it's sitting on my desk, unflyable.
Given what it would cost to buy a new servo, and a new receiver, I'm tempted to write this one off, and just buy a new one. These original ones are getting less expensive all the time.
Maybe it's time to write this off to experience, and use it for spare parts.

I've seen the pics of the v2.
They made some interesting changes, but I think it's really questionable if they actually "fixed" anything, or if they just made it different, and more expensive. Maybe they won't need all the mods just to get them to fly.

Is the Walkera 52 any better for quality?
It's a tad larger, but still small enough to fly indoors (which is what I like about the 4#3).

Thanks!
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Old May 11, 2008, 01:41 AM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtwin
Thank you for the answer.
I went through all of that.
I'm on my third tail motor, with the same result.
I've checked the wires, and the connectors.
I don't believe that it's the Tx, because the main motor never hesitates, just the tail motor. That only leaves something with the electronics. Which really means ... buying a new receiver/4-in-one. (no, I'm not going to go nutz, and go for a ar6300 conversion!).
Even when the tail motor doesn't kick out, it won't hold at all. The heli is all over the place. It will suddenly spin 90*, or do a couple of piros, and it's anyone guess at where it will come out.
I also have 1 servo that jitters constantly. Sometimes more than others, but constant.

So, basically, it's sitting on my desk, unflyable.
Given what it would cost to buy a new servo, and a new receiver, I'm tempted to write this one off, and just buy a new one. These original ones are getting less expensive all the time.
Maybe it's time to write this off to experience, and use it for spare parts.

I've seen the pics of the v2.
They made some interesting changes, but I think it's really questionable if they actually "fixed" anything, or if they just made it different, and more expensive. Maybe they won't need all the mods just to get them to fly.

Is the Walkera 52 any better for quality?
It's a tad larger, but still small enough to fly indoors (which is what I like about the 4#3).

Thanks!
The 52# is way way bigger than the 4#3. i just recieved 10 for my new website and think they look great. the 52# has been around a while check the thread. i will be selling brushless conversions (easy to do) and a carbon frame upgrade coming soon!
-johnw
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Old May 11, 2008, 02:30 AM
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1,421 Posts
Dead Spots on tail Motor -Troubleshooting .. Continued

From Post 492, PG.33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtwin
Thank you for the answer.
I went through all of that.
I'm on my third tail motor, with the same result.
I've checked the wires, and the connectors.
I don't believe that it's the Tx, because the main motor never hesitates, just the tail motor. That only leaves something with the electronics. Which really means ... buying a new receiver/4-in-one. (no, I'm not going to go nutz, and go for a ar6300 conversion!).
Even when the tail motor doesn't kick out, it won't hold at all. The heli is all over the place. It will suddenly spin 90*, or do a couple of piros, and it's anyone guess at where it will come out.
I also have 1 servo that jitters constantly. Sometimes more than others, but constant.

So, basically, it's sitting on my desk, unflyable.
Given what it would cost to buy a new servo, and a new receiver, I'm tempted to write this one off, and just buy a new one. These original ones are getting less expensive all the time.
Maybe it's time to write this off to experience, and use it for spare parts.

I've seen the pics of the v2.
They made some interesting changes, but I think it's really questionable if they actually "fixed" anything, or if they just made it different, and more expensive. Maybe they won't need all the mods just to get them to fly.

Is the Walkera 52 any better for quality?
It's a tad larger, but still small enough to fly indoors (which is what I like about the 4#3).

Thanks!
On the Dead Spot on the tail motor, try swaping the tail and main motor connections on the controller and SLOWLY! PLease, throttle up and see if you still get the dead spot on the main motor this time. I said slowly, because because I am not sure what the rating on the tail ESC Mosfet is but I suspect that it may be same as for the main, sometimes both mosfets (Main and tail or Master-salve) have the same MAX Current draw spec or rating, for simplicity of manufacturing, if this is the case, you can essentially operate any of the 4#3 stock motors on the tail or main or vise versa, ESC channels, on the controller.
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Old May 11, 2008, 02:55 AM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
From Post 492


On the Dead Spot on the tail motor, try swaping the tail and main motor connections on the controller and SLOWLY! PLease, throttle up and see if you still get the dead spot on the main motor this time. I said slowly, because because I am not sure what the rating on the tail ESC Mosfet is but I suspect that it may be same as for the main, sometimes both mosfets (Main and tail or Master-salve) have the same MAX Current draw spec or rating, for simplicity of manufacturing, if this is the case, you can essentially operate any of the 4#3 stock motors on the tail or main or vise versa, ESC channels, on the controller.
Okay, short answer: No, I didn't get the dead spot, and I've never seen the tail motor run so well! The main stayed steady throughout the throttle range.

I've put them back now, and it's back to the old game.
So.. what next? Why did the main not fail at the same spot?
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Old May 11, 2008, 03:01 AM
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Walkera 52 MIA UPgrades.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtwin

Is the Walkera 52 any better for quality?
It's a tad larger, but still small enough to fly indoors (which is what I like about the 4#3).

Thanks!
Based on some of the comments and issues asociated with the 52, are poor LG, frame that bends easily, boom that breaks similar to the 4#3, and the heli could use tighter and more precise fitting ball links.

I have not flow the 52, yet, but I have that heli and I really like the mechanics of it. They are extremely smooth and the rotor head appears to have very nice damping, this is actually the part that I like about this helicopter, the mechanics and these along with the MIA upgrades I am doing for it will solve all the issues that users have had with this Sub-Micro Helicopter. Once again, I am doing these upgrades because I believe the 52 has grea potentyial with the MIA upgrades, also this heli resembles in size to the MIA Bumble Bee, but only that the 52 is full 3D collective. If I had done a collective Bumble Bee for sale, the 52 with the MIA upgrades I am going to have in the next month would be the result of that.

Is the 52 better quality than the 4#3?

These are two very different helicopters not only in size but in mechanics, and frame design, although they share the same approach to the tail gear box tail section. I like the quality of the mechanics and so this maybe a nice little helicopter to have along with your 4#3. You almost have to try it on your own, but if you are interested in the 52 also, you will not go wrong with it and the MIA upgrades for it.

I have created a separate page (will be up in another week) on my site for the MIA Walkera 52 Upgrades, the frames John is talking about, will be G10 and Carbon ones also, these will bear the same structural format typical of all MIA frame Upgrades but these will be Bolt On not glued because the 52 allows for a bolt on frame due to less restrictions on overall weight.

I am currently working on finishing the 52 frames for this helicopter and once again, this too will have its own spiffy Carbon Pattern MIA Phantom Canopy to go with a better boom, and a much stronger landing gear. Also the MIA Frames for the 52, will have provisions for various motor mountings and wider use of various equipmetn, which have been suggested to me by a few fellow 52 users.

So far the most popular ones suggested to me have been the Medusa, Feigao IPS Size and perhaps some small ourunners. Currently my frames have provisions for the Medusa and Feigao and MIA Bumble Bee Motors (More powerful and nicer motor than the stock 52 motor). Both Medusa and Feigao share the same hole mounting distance so these two motors are quite interchangeable without having a separate set of mounting holes for each motor.
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Last edited by MarioIArguello; May 11, 2008 at 04:23 AM.
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Old May 11, 2008, 03:15 AM
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Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
From Post 492
have the same MAX Current draw spec or rating, for simplicity of manufacturing, if this is the case, you can essentially operate any of the 4#3 stock motors on the tail or main or vise versa, ESC channels, on the controller.
Okay, I guess I don't know how this helps.
I obviously can't run it with them reversed. Although, with the main plugged into the tail slot, it ran great all the way though. And the tail motor has never run so well.

But how does this fix my problem?
I've put them back now. Same old problem.

THanks!!!

I'd really hate to shelf this little guy!
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Old May 11, 2008, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtwin
Okay, I guess I don't know how this helps.
I obviously can't run it with them reversed. Although, with the main plugged into the tail slot, it ran great all the way though. And the tail motor has never run so well.

But how does this fix my problem?
I've put them back now. Same old problem.

THanks!!!

I'd really hate to shelf this little guy!
Have you already swapped tail motors? to see if you get the same dead spot at 3/4 throttle?
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Old May 11, 2008, 09:37 AM
I HOOVER because I SUCK!
Portland,Oregon U.S.A.
Joined Sep 2007
5,141 Posts
trade laptop for heli stuff

Hi!

see link!


http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...56#post9734776
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Old May 11, 2008, 01:00 PM
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Joined Mar 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
Have you already swapped tail motors? to see if you get the same dead spot at 3/4 throttle?
Yes, as I said in the first question, I've tried two other motors.

Strangly, this problem started when I changed the main motor. The main finally burned out, and I put a new one in. Right after that, the tail motor started acting up.
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Old May 11, 2008, 01:02 PM
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Joined Nov 2003
363 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexgen
Jason you took my Idea!!

I wonder what would happen if someone put the blades on upside down, or had some with reversed pitch. I have seen some cx2 vid where a guy did that, he had to hand launch, and catch to land.
The piccolo was advertised like that once, a long long time ago....
They turned the blades upside down and the rep just hovered it in front of him, also had to hand launch and catch it though.
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Old May 11, 2008, 01:52 PM
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mario slowly , stay funky
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Old May 11, 2008, 01:58 PM
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Joined May 2008
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help

hello, i have some problem with my tail boom, what you think about an aluminium one? some guy told me that in this page you can buy hypodermic aluminium tube, is lighter than the piano wire, can somebody help me to figure out the correct size for the tail boom and the flybar please.
This is the page>
http://www.mcmaster.com/param/dsc/ds...ermic%2bTubing
I was trying to take out the tail motor holder and then accidentally one of the wires cut off just inside the black plastic cover, how can i fix it?
Thank you.
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