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Old Apr 03, 2008, 04:40 AM
Micro-Heli-Concepts
jasonjetski's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Blacktown
Joined Dec 2006
4,984 Posts
Very nice Mario,
I want to order a frame,but I didnt see any mention of postage costs.
Can you tell me the postage cost to Sydney please?
Regards Jason.
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Old Apr 03, 2008, 05:15 AM
Fly, fix, repeat
oobly's Avatar
Tampere, Finland
Joined Feb 2007
961 Posts
Nice looking canopy, but will we have to remove the canopy to connect the battery lead?

-Oobly
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Old Apr 03, 2008, 01:05 PM
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goodman's Avatar
Canada
Joined Aug 2002
83 Posts
Mario,
The frame looks very nice, I like it. Did you mention somewhere about the fly characteristic? Is it more stable than the original frame because it is bigger?
I've mine modified with Losi BL with the original single cell lipo. So, what I like to improve now is the stability (if it is more stable than breaking maybe a lesser problem) and of course the look
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Old Apr 03, 2008, 01:17 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
Mia 4#3 retro heli

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
BTW, I photoshop'ed over the canopy photo a possible decal layout. Thanks JW.
the canopy looks so sweet! just let us know when we can buy it!!!
can't wait till all the other parts from you are available.
-johnw
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Old Apr 03, 2008, 01:23 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
Mario,
can you make an adaptaion to use the micron v2 titanium mainshaft, 108 tooth main gear and swash and rotor head assy? the 108t main and 10t pinion are a good combo for the losi motors. i can ship you the parts if you like. also what wire are you using for the extended tail boom? where can i get the wire from?
-johnw
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Old Apr 03, 2008, 04:16 PM
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MarioIArguello's Avatar
Joined Jun 2006
1,421 Posts
Tips: Improving Flight Characeristics

Ordering from outside the USA:

Pease have a USA friend order it for you and send it to you. I am really sorry but right now we are not shipping outside the USA.

Can you get to the wires with the canopy on?
Yes, you can, you need to trim under the canopy a bit, near the battery, to access the power connectors.

Flight Characteristics - Stability are improved when you:

1) Add weight to the lower section of the helicopter
2) Goin with a slightly larger rotor spinning at higher RPM but at a lower angle of attack.
3) Add weight to the paddles. increases gyroscopic moemntum. Makes the helicopter more doscile.
4) Increase the main rotor shaft length and raise the main rotor head higher above the boom horizontal axis.
4) Try to keep the helicopter as light as possible, with all of the above in mind.

bear in mind you may have to compromise here and there.

Micron Options

John, I have the original Micron and when it came out had done some G10 frames for it, also, but I never finished that project, got busy with something else and never made it available. See pics below. I know there were some updates done to the heli mechanics, from the 1st version, but which ones, not exactly sure.

Can you indicate which parts changed?

Because of size similarities with the Walkera 4#3, I am almost tempted to say that the G10 frame for the Walkera, will also work with the micron. Are the bearings the same, I have to dig out the Micron and see.
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Old Apr 03, 2008, 04:48 PM
Fly, fix, repeat
oobly's Avatar
Tampere, Finland
Joined Feb 2007
961 Posts
Mario,

In my opinion you should really look at the Micron head and swash. I don't think the design of the Walkera parts will do justice to the frame! I am building a 2nd 4#3 for a Spektrum / brushless heli and I once again have to make my own upper swash parts to remove excessive play. With a close-fitting swash the head design works fine, though.

JohnIn2SonAZ may know about the bearing sizes.

Honestly, if I received one of your frames I would try to fit a standard geared tail unit on it instead of the direct drive. The Walkera servos are great, too.

Having a CofG too low on a heli can contribute to pendulum / TBE. It increases hover stability, but at the expense of forward flight stability.

For me, adding weight to the paddles is a no-no. It increases the response delay along with increasing the stability and I like my heli responsive. I even took the standard brass flybar paddle mounts off my flybar and glued the paddles straight to the bar. Could just be a personal thing, though.

Good to know you can access the power connection. It's useful in an emergency!

-Oobly
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Old Apr 03, 2008, 07:33 PM
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Joined Jun 2006
1,421 Posts
Power Connections

Oobly,

I know what you mean by easy access to power connections, one of the servo on mine, locked and drew eccessive power, the servo leads got hot and meted them. Luckly I was able to pull the plug before the 4 in1 got shorted. I'm with you there!

Suggestions for power connections:

1) a micro switch inline with one of the leads of the battery connectors.
2) magnet connections on battery and on the frame, like they do on some of Plantraco systems.
3) Tiny fuses for added safety.

About the pendulum effect, you are correct, that is the tradeoff.
It sounds like you are an experienced pilot, also, I too like a responsive head for flying around large areas, but for simply hovering in confined areas, heavier paddles helps.

If you are a newbie, I would recommend leaving the flybar weights on, in fact addding a little bit more.

I will look at the new Micron head and swashplate, I really didn't like the original because of the individual flybar arms, with the S shape rotor head, this has not been a favorite of mine, because this makes trimming more tedious. The flybar arms, the ones that are one piece, are best. I like the Walkera one, it follows traditional FP head design, although it would be even better, if the rotor hub was better made (this is the part that breaks) and had some form of "Damping" built-in to the head. One way to achieve this is with a different "rotor hub", and some rubber or spring device built on the head itself. Most tine helis use the flex in the plastic blades to achieve a form of rotor damping. Some of you guys might already know this.

Hmmm, I just realized why Walkera migh have designed the rotor hub with the slot in between the ball bearing holders, perhaps to give it some "damping", some flex in this area. Compromise is that it breaks if you hit hard. I am interested in fiding out if the Micron head you mention has any form of damping on it.

The Micron original swashplate was cool, but because it was made from "abs" molded plastic it broke easily. If the Micron Shaft diameter didn't change, the bearings should be the same. I do have the original bearings, can somone confirm this for me?
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Old Apr 03, 2008, 08:06 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
the blade cradle has changed for the better. nothing breaks on the v2's head. it's extremely durable. i think the shaft is the same diameter and the bearing upper/lower are the same. the swash ball now has a tube and ball end to it.
if you want to be sure order some parts for a prototype.
-johnw
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Old Apr 03, 2008, 08:37 PM
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MarioIArguello's Avatar
Joined Jun 2006
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Wire I am using on the Walkera MIA Boom Upgrade.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnIn2SonAZ
Mario,
can you make an adaptaion to use the micron v2 titanium mainshaft, 108 tooth main gear and swash and rotor head assy? the 108t main and 10t pinion are a good combo for the losi motors. i can ship you the parts if you like. also what wire are you using for the extended tail boom? where can i get the wire from?
-johnw
John,

I'll take you up on the shipping parts if you have some for the new Micron. I will return them with a Free Canopy for the trouble. I'll see what I can do with them in terms of a frame, if the one I've done for the 4#3 doesn't quite work. Email me at MIADSGNS@COX.NET and I will return you my address.

The wire size I have is same I bought in 1998 for the tail end of the very first batch of MIA Robin 280 helicopters, I was selling back in 1999. Sounds like a long time, but it is interesting that I am still using some of these items in smaller helicopters. Just so happens to be the same diameter as the Walkera tail boom wire. The ones I have are more flexible though and easier to work with in my opinion. I am supplying the wires also as part of the new G10 Frames for the 4#3, but you will have to attach the connector to it, simply splice the original connector with my wires and heat shrink tube over it. Pic attached.

You can get this wire from Electronics Places like Newark, or some Doll House Places or electric Train Hobby Stores have it in small quantities. I will send you some.
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Old Apr 03, 2008, 08:54 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
just sent you an e-mail.
thanks, johnw
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Old Apr 04, 2008, 02:17 AM
Fly, fix, repeat
oobly's Avatar
Tampere, Finland
Joined Feb 2007
961 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
Oobly,

I know what you mean by easy access to power connections, one of the servo on mine, locked and drew eccessive power, the servo leads got hot and meted them. Luckly I was able to pull the plug before the 4 in1 got shorted. I'm with you there!

Suggestions for power connections:

1) a micro switch inline with one of the leads of the battery connectors.
2) magnet connections on battery and on the frame, like they do on some of Plantraco systems.
3) Tiny fuses for added safety.

About the pendulum effect, you are correct, that is the tradeoff.
It sounds like you are an experienced pilot, also, I too like a responsive head for flying around large areas, but for simply hovering in confined areas, heavier paddles helps.

If you are a newbie, I would recommend leaving the flybar weights on, in fact addding a little bit more.

I will look at the new Micron head and swashplate, I really didn't like the original because of the individual flybar arms, with the S shape rotor head, this has not been a favorite of mine, because this makes trimming more tedious. The flybar arms, the ones that are one piece, are best. I like the Walkera one, it follows traditional FP head design, although it would be even better, if the rotor hub was better made (this is the part that breaks) and had some form of "Damping" built-in to the head. One way to achieve this is with a different "rotor hub", and some rubber or spring device built on the head itself. Most tine helis use the flex in the plastic blades to achieve a form of rotor damping. Some of you guys might already know this.

Hmmm, I just realized why Walkera migh have designed the rotor hub with the slot in between the ball bearing holders, perhaps to give it some "damping", some flex in this area. Compromise is that it breaks if you hit hard. I am interested in fiding out if the Micron head you mention has any form of damping on it.

The Micron original swashplate was cool, but because it was made from "abs" molded plastic it broke easily. If the Micron Shaft diameter didn't change, the bearings should be the same. I do have the original bearings, can somone confirm this for me?
Hi,

Good suggestions about the power connection.

The Micron head has mounts for adding flybar weights to make it more stable.

Honestly, I don't know much about the materials used in the Micron parts and don't have experience with trimming a Micron head and swash. I can only say what I don't like about the Walkera one since that is what I have.

One of the things I prefer about the Micron head is that the flybar clips into the blade holder. There aren't any links like the Walkera. The Walkera links at first used to bind and cause big stability problems. Walkera fixed that, but there is still the possibility of some play there.

Another thing which bugs me is the "dogbone" links between the swash and flybar. The design allows for play to develop easily. In my opinion the direction of insertion / removal should not be the same as the forces the link has to operate with. The "normal" links in the Micron fit this criteria.

The aluminium head made by small.planes is excellent (although I am using one of the more flexible Walkera heads and haven't broken a single one yet). With that head, all that is still needing improvement is the swash plate. There is play between the ball and upper / inside swash plate. Even with spainman's mod of fixing the swash ball in place with a spring and shaft collar, it still allows play in the control system. The only way I was able to fix this was to replace the upper swash plate with a modified servo horn, molded to fit the swash ball. It works very well, but is not an easy mod and definitely not something I would expect a newbie to attempt. Actually the "dogbone" links made it easier to make this part since I didn't have to make ball links, just sockets for the link ends.

The brass inserts for holding the flybar in place in the head often get loose and this makes the flybar loose. I use a brass tube to replace it. With the brass tube in there and new upper swashplate it flies very nicely! I think with the Micron parts these mods won't be necessary.

I think there is enough flex in the blades and blade holder assembly to give damping, but I am not a heli engineer.

I really like the standard Walkera blades. They can be trimmed to give higher headspeed and less "effective" pitch (by trimming off the back part of the blade which has the steepest angle). They are very light, quite stiff and incredibly tough.

I hope sharing my experiences with the Walkera parts helps. Please note all ideas and opinions expressed here are just that. Ideas and opinions, all biased by my own personal preferences and frustrations.

-Oobly
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Old Apr 04, 2008, 06:20 AM
Fly, fix, repeat
oobly's Avatar
Tampere, Finland
Joined Feb 2007
961 Posts
Hi Mario,

I found this on your site: "Frame works with the following Motors:

ANY Motor that fits the stock motor mounting, both stock Carbon Brush types, as well as Brushless (i.e. ultra micro motors, Feigao or Losi 10250kv brushless motor and feigao 6amp speed contollers)"

The Losi motor DOES NOT fit the stock motor mounting. The holes are further apart. It is possible to understand from what you have written that it does fit the standard mounting. I suggest you change the wording a little to prevent misunderstandings. As far as I know, the Feiga 12x22mm does fit, but the screws are a bit thicker than the stock motor screws.

-Oobly
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Old Apr 04, 2008, 12:16 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oobly
Hi Mario,

I found this on your site: "Frame works with the following Motors:

ANY Motor that fits the stock motor mounting, both stock Carbon Brush types, as well as Brushless (i.e. ultra micro motors, Feigao or Losi 10250kv brushless motor and feigao 6amp speed contollers)"

The Losi motor DOES NOT fit the stock motor mounting. The holes are further apart. It is possible to understand from what you have written that it does fit the standard mounting. I suggest you change the wording a little to prevent misunderstandings. As far as I know, the Feiga 12x22mm does fit, but the screws are a bit thicker than the stock motor screws.

-Oobly
Good Point.
-johnw
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Old Apr 04, 2008, 01:59 PM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
Mario,
i'll send you some parts when i get your frames from you and take a look at them.
-johnw
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