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Old May 07, 2008, 04:29 AM
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MarioIArguello's Avatar
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MIA Early Torque Rod Tail Drive vs. 2008 Hirobo quark, same idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oobly
Wow! I must say, some of your designs are simply beautiful, Mario. I love the way the motor sides are flush with the frame sides. And the way the battery fits. Work of art. It's almost a shame to hide the frame with a canopy.

-Oobly
I appreciate that Oobly, I like the open frame pictures better, also. A little off topic here but, If you like uniqe designs like this one, you gotta check out my MIA Museum when I open it, over 20 years of nothing but helicopter designs I've done.

Some designs I have never shown anyone, like this following frame design I did to see if I can get a very quick tail action, by placing the tail motor on the frame itself and removing the tail weight, of having the motor at the tip of the boom, this worked great with a direct torque rod to drive beveled tail gears, but I abandoned the project, in search for simplicity.

The torque rod called for ball bearing inside the boom, and it became a little more complex, at the time I did this, vs. simply having the motor at the end of the boom. Battery weight was an issue when I did this setup as the extra torque rod , bearings and beveled gears added more weight to the helicopter, overall, and flight times were not as good as with simply having the motor on the tail with a couple wires running through the boom, as the more familiar micro helis set ups are done.

New lighter weight battery techology has greately made room for some of these ideas that were not quite practical ,at the time I experimented with them. As an example, the new small Hirobo helicopter has implemented the very same concept of using a motor on the frame, to drive the tail, but they use a brushless motor and going with same idea of using a torque rod to drive beveled gear tail setup.

I don't have the Hirobo heli but I know this provides excellent tail control, because I experimented with the very same setup years ago. So for those that have the Hirobo heli I am talking about, I think you will find it is very easy to control, this in addition to the flybar at 45 degres are the 2 greates contributors to any heli becoming a lot more stable, than the more typical helicopter setups.

It is for this very same practical experience I have with lighter tail sections, that I always reccomend to try to keep the tail section as light as possible, you will be surprised how much more reactive, without the need for brute power, the heli tail section becomes. This is the reason I prefer to go direct drive on some setups, but using the right motor, because you can also go direct drive and if the motor is too heavy, you will defeat this purpose.


TIP: Why Direct Drive is better with the right motor/prop/ESC combo.

1) Can be lighter than having added mechanics and parts such as gears, gear boxes.
2) Is simpler, less maintenance and looks clean.

For direct drive to work effectively you gotta have the following:

A)
Mainly a matched tail motor power and prop size combo that works with the main motor.

B) Proper Distance from main shaft to tail prop shaft so that tail rotor torque balances with the the main with as minimal effort, as possible, from the motor.

Getting back to the Walkera 4#3, since the stock tail motor is plenty powerful and lightweight, we can go DD with the MIA Frames/longer boom as supplied with the kit and stock motors, as indicated in my videos.

If you go with brushless then you have to experiment a bit and find a tail motor and prop that works with the higher powered main motor, most likely a brushless one too, but smaller. This is all a balancing act. It is not a cut and dry formula, but just keep in mind these tips and you'll be fine.
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Last edited by MarioIArguello; Oct 30, 2008 at 05:41 AM.
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Old May 07, 2008, 07:56 AM
Trying To Takeoff
salat's Avatar
Novosibirsk, Siberia
Joined Dec 2006
2,418 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
These are the E-Hobby servos I have been using on all my tiny helicopters since this servo was first introduced to the Hobby Market. It is a nice option in liew of the Blue Arrow servos, they came out before the Blue Arrow ones.

The ones I used and still use with good results are the model HES-490. These have the same foot print as the Blue Arrow BATS 3.6 and 2.5s.

The attached picture shows the same servo with a different number, but it is the same case style. If you can find the original ones that were made with screw-on cases (not the ones with just heat shrink tubing to hold the case in place) you might want to try the 490s in your 4#3 custom setups.

Second Picture is hybrid helicopter, the MIA Dart, I designed to use the E-Hobby 490 servos and a very compact and lightweight standard brush motor setup.
Hell Mario!
where you buy them at best price? They are Korean made, right?
Thank you,
Kostya
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Old May 07, 2008, 07:58 AM
Trying To Takeoff
salat's Avatar
Novosibirsk, Siberia
Joined Dec 2006
2,418 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnIn2SonAZ
Two common problems with the 4#3 servos are:
the case can split apart slightly which causes the gears inside to no longer mesh and then bind up. what i recomend is take some 1/8'' pinstripe tape for a automobile and press the servo together while wrapping the tape around the servo. this keeps the cases tightly together and stops the problem.
the other problems are connector problems which cause poor connections between the servo and 4 in 1. this is hard to fix sometimes. one can use needle nose pliers and press the tabs on the connector to stop the pins from sliding around and not making contact.
-johnw
if anybody here got jittering, fryed, split, wirecut or any other way non-working servos I would like to have them at fair price.
Thank you,
Kostya
(sorry for offtopic)
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Old May 07, 2008, 09:37 AM
Registered User
Toronto Canada
Joined Dec 2002
5,462 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
As an example, the new small Hirobo helicopter has implemented the very same concept of using a motor on the frame, to drive the tail, but they use a brushless motor and going with same idea of using a torque rod to drive beveled gear tail setup.
Brushless or coreless?
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Old May 07, 2008, 10:43 AM
Put a Quark in it!
nexgen's Avatar
USA, MN, Brainerd
Joined Feb 2008
1,130 Posts
a little bit off topic, but,

I LOVE this hobby!!

So many good people doing great stuff. I started out knowing nothing about this hobby about 3-4 months ago, and now I am soaking it all up, and am quite an accomplished pilot, and 4#3 connoisseur.. I have received my inspiration and direction from many of you, you are all so helpful, and willing to share. big thanks to:

MarioIArguello - GREAT frames, this heli needed your love.
johnIn2SonAZ - huge information resource
Oobly - CP 4#3!! wow.
small.planes - fixed all my rotor head problems with his aluminum one.
sketchaholic - always there to help, when are we going to see more canopies
thanhTran -great LiPo alarm/light kit
Junglemaxx - Awesome Airwolf canopy, inspired me to try pulling my own plastic
spainman - mods mods mods
microkites - you lucky sucker, getting the metal 4#3 so early!!
Minibichus - The MB-1, need I say more
TheSteve and jonathan9113 for all their great brushless work
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Old May 07, 2008, 12:47 PM
Registered User
Skien, Norway
Joined Apr 2008
63 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by nexgen
a little bit off topic, but,

I LOVE this hobby!!

So many good people doing great stuff. I started out knowing nothing about this hobby about 3-4 months ago, and now I am soaking it all up, and am quite an accomplished pilot, and 4#3 connoisseur.. I have received my inspiration and direction from many of you, you are all so helpful, and willing to share. big thanks to:

MarioIArguello - GREAT frames, this heli needed your love.
johnIn2SonAZ - huge information resource
Oobly - CP 4#3!! wow.
small.planes - fixed all my rotor head problems with his aluminum one.
sketchaholic - always there to help, when are we going to see more canopies
thanhTran -great LiPo alarm/light kit
Junglemaxx - Awesome Airwolf canopy, inspired me to try pulling my own plastic
spainman - mods mods mods
microkites - you lucky sucker, getting the metal 4#3 so early!!
Minibichus - The MB-1, need I say more
TheSteve and jonathan9113 for all their great brushless work
Yeah, what nexgen said!!!!
Thanks to all you guys!

Best Regards
Condor8000, Norway
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Old May 07, 2008, 01:03 PM
master 4#3
istanbul Türkiye
Joined Jan 2008
958 Posts
well i even tell to my friends that i dont know what we all would do if TheSteve didnt make his converters available worldwide.
thanks all who put great info,time and work for the great little 4#3.
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Old May 07, 2008, 05:01 PM
Put a Quark in it!
nexgen's Avatar
USA, MN, Brainerd
Joined Feb 2008
1,130 Posts
Hi Mario,

I noticed in one of your pictures it looks like you have some sort of metal head mod to the 4#3 head. It looks like it is fashioned from an alu tube. Do you have any info on this? I am interested in trying something like that myself.

Also, do you plan to stock the Semi-Automatic stabilizing system for the 4#3 on your website? I am interested in that as well as I am teaching my brother on one of these, and that flybar setup may make it easier for him.
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Old May 07, 2008, 05:28 PM
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1,421 Posts
Quote:
Hi Mario,

I noticed in one of your pictures it looks like you have some sort of metal head mod to the 4#3 head. It looks like it is fashioned from an alu tube. Do you have any info on this? I am interested in trying something like that myself.

Also, do you plan to stock the Semi-Automatic stabilizing system for the 4#3 on your website? I am interested in that as well as I am teaching my brother on one of these, and that flybar setup may make it easier for him.
Nexgen,

Yes it is a custom head mod. I am planning on offering the head at the very least the part that normally breaks on the 4#3. Hopefully in the next week .
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Old May 07, 2008, 05:47 PM
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MIA Opening International Shippng! Trial Run

I've had quite a few request for international shipping.

If you are still interested, please EMAIL ME DIRECT MIADSGNS@COX.NET, THE ITEMS YOU WISH SHIPPED to and will send you a total.

Please Do Not use this thread to make request for shipping parts and please do not use my sites' PayPal buttons, as these are only setup for Domestic USA orders.

USPS shipping for Priority Mail International is 6-10 days. This is the only way I will ship, and the cost of SHI is $37 up to 1lb box.

Please understand that in shipping international, there are some more forms to fill out for customs and this makes shippers' work a little more complex and time consuming, so shipping fees have to be adjusted slightly to the already higher USPS International shipping fees, depending on weight, to make up for this extra effort. I wish it would be simpler and cheaper to do so, but that is just how things are. But I wanted to answer to those outside the USA that want to have the MIA Walkera Upgrades.

I Do understand the $37 maybe high for some folks, but this is the only way I will ship internationally. I Suggests buddying up with someone in your area and ordering multiple items so to save on SHI. A 1lb Box weight limit for this fee. If you were to order 1 of each item I have on the Walkera 4#3 page , for 3 people this will still be under the 1lb limit. So this would work out to about $6 for each of 3 people for shipping? This is were the $37 SHI fees would be better justifiable. Does this sound OK?

OK, Here are the countries for which this type of shipping applies to:

Switzerland
Netherlands
Germany
Italy
Canada
Japan

If your country is not listed send me an Email and I will confirm.

This International shipping is a Trial RUN: If everything goes well and it is not too much of a hassle I will keep it up, if not then I will post a note to dicontinue it.

Thank You.
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Old May 07, 2008, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martyn McKinney
Brushless or coreless?
Brushless on the main coreless on the tail.
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Old May 07, 2008, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnIn2SonAZ
I totally Agree.
Mario does it ever end with you.......lol.
i love all your creative visions.
please keep up the incredable work!
Best Regards, johnw
John,
Actually this passion for making tiny helicopters started with me a long time ago and it is like many of you guys also have a passion that never seems to end. It is better than any drug and healthier too, because ti builds friendships and unites more people from all backgrounds into a common area that we can all enjoy. I appreciate yours and everyone else's supportive comments.
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Old May 07, 2008, 10:29 PM
internet rebel
akguanja's Avatar
wasilla, alaska
Joined Sep 2007
490 Posts


hey guys i found these lipos for a super deal. they are 10c 500mah with the same deminsions as the ones john has not sure if they are the exact same but should fit on the 4#3 well, there tenergy brand which is a great brand of lipo.

best thing is they are only 6 bucks and a flat rate shipping of 3.99 no matter how many u order. from www.ritehobby.com also in may you can use the 20% discount code of RH20

i just picked up 2 of them for under 14 bucks shipped after the 20% off.

-tre
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Old May 08, 2008, 01:19 AM
I HOOVER because I SUCK!
Portland,Oregon U.S.A.
Joined Sep 2007
5,141 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
Nexgen,

Yes it is a custom head mod. I am planning on offering the head at the very least the part that normally breaks on the 4#3. Hopefully in the next week .

with dampeners?? Harder ones please!

I know people posted some mods for orings,but this design can be improved with a little know how I think

also think v2 head/blade holders will be easier to mod cp because it is already in 2 pieces

mk
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Old May 08, 2008, 02:26 AM
Tucson,AZ
Joined Dec 2007
4,371 Posts
Thanks!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nexgen
a little bit off topic, but,

I LOVE this hobby!!

So many good people doing great stuff. I started out knowing nothing about this hobby about 3-4 months ago, and now I am soaking it all up, and am quite an accomplished pilot, and 4#3 connoisseur.. I have received my inspiration and direction from many of you, you are all so helpful, and willing to share. big thanks to:

MarioIArguello - GREAT frames, this heli needed your love.
johnIn2SonAZ - huge information resource
Oobly - CP 4#3!! wow.
small.planes - fixed all my rotor head problems with his aluminum one.
sketchaholic - always there to help, when are we going to see more canopies
thanhTran -great LiPo alarm/light kit
Junglemaxx - Awesome Airwolf canopy, inspired me to try pulling my own plastic
spainman - mods mods mods
microkites - you lucky sucker, getting the metal 4#3 so early!!
Minibichus - The MB-1, need I say more
TheSteve and jonathan9113 for all their great brushless work
Thanks man i just love this hobby and love sharing with others what i've come across with my frankenstein projects.
cheers, johnw
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