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Old May 02, 2008, 05:39 PM
master 4#3
istanbul Türkiye
Joined Jan 2008
958 Posts
thanks everyone for the input.will be very helpfull for beginners like me.
the video of 3vw is one of the videos which shows the potential of 4#3. 3vw is a good rc pilot too.we dont see him in the forum anymore i wonder if he has information about the brushless conversion,i am sure he would love it.
i have had a tame 4#3 like that in the video.when the heli is well balanced like this,it becomes easy to fly ff,doing crazy piros,nose in,backwards flying etc.
as i can see in my heli the problem might be related to the flybar,which doesnt move smoothly.when i flick it, it doesnt bounce freely.
anyway thanks a lot.
happy flying.
genco.
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Old May 02, 2008, 06:11 PM
Micro-Heli-Concepts
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Australia, NSW, Blacktown
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Mario,Is there any way to adjust the gyro sensitivity on the 4#3?
Iam using the WK-0703
Jason
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Old May 02, 2008, 06:18 PM
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How to get your heli to fly more stable

If you are looking for additional stability, provided all of what has been pointed out, to get the heli as stable as possible, is checked and done first, you can :

1) Add additional tip weights to the flybar.

2) Lower the weight under the heli by moving the battery slightly lower under the battery cage. This will require a taller LG.

All the MIA 4#3 Upgrade Frames, allow for 2). Reason I designed them that way, plus they also have some other little perks as per the descriptions I placed next to them on my site and in previous posts in this thread.
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Old May 02, 2008, 06:26 PM
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Using the Walkera Coaxial 5#6 Controller with the 4#3

Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonjetski
Mario,Is there any way to adjust the gyro sensitivity on the 4#3?
Iam using the WK-0703
Jason
Not on the stock 4#3, I just checked mine again, but I have one fo the very first ones. But there should be a fixed SM resistor on the PCB that can be replaced with a SM pot, to provide for tail adjusments. Just gotta find it.

Now, the 4#3 2.4 Ghz does have such, I believe and also the 5#6 Coaxial helicopter control board does have a gyro +/- adjustment.

Option for having Gyro and more tail control on the 4#3.

Use the 5#6 Controller on the 4#3. Like in the picture below. With direct drive this option, this gives quite a bit of tail control! you might also want to try this on any other 4#3 2.4 Ghz versions if you find that the Tail is a bit slugish .

PLUSES OF USING THE 5#6 Controller on the 4#3.

1) Has gyro adjustment ! Cool!
2) Both ESCs on the 5#6 are designed for N20 type motors, same type but with slightly different winding specs, as on the 4#3 main stock. This means that you can essentially put an N20 motor on the tail to counteract the main rotor toque, in direct drive and have quite a bit of tail rotor power? But it is not requied to use that big of a motor, since the original stock 4#3 tail works extremely well, with this controller in both direct and geared tail setups. In fact, it may have too much tail power that you may need to lower the tail gain pot on the controller.

Now, the caveat here is "experimental" because I have not fully cycled this set up beyond a few test flights. And I have not had time to run current draw measurements, but as described above it worked on my 4#3 stock version, so if you want to try this, do it at your own risk. If it works also for you let us know.
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Old May 02, 2008, 06:34 PM
Micro-Heli-Concepts
jasonjetski's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Blacktown
Joined Dec 2006
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Thanks Mario,
I will take a better look at mine.
I just noticed one ball on the blade holder is down a little more than the other,but very slight.
Maybe Iam just clutching at straws,but it flew very smooth until yesterday.
Regards Jason
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Old May 02, 2008, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jasonjetski
Thanks Mario,
I will take a better look at mine.
I just noticed one ball on the blade holder is down a little more than the other,but very slight.
Maybe Iam just clutching at straws,but it flew very smooth until yesterday.
Regards Jason
Jason, those littel balls with the stem that stick out of the 4#3 rotor heads have to be bend down slitghly to allow the whole head to pivot on the main blade axis smoothly, this smooth action is what some people here have referred to as the bounce up and down 2-3 times when you tap on the flybar.

Better yet, don't tap it, as suggested, because you might overtap it and throw the head parts out of precision, but instead blow air on the flybar, if the flybar and head pivots smoothly ,you GOt it!, this should fly your heli smooth. If it binds take a small needle nose pliers and grab those little ball stems on the head and gently bend then down. This is one way.

MIA TIP for a more parallel flybar to head links. Smoother pivoting rotor head and crispier control


What I actually did on the 4#3 head of some of my helis is, instead of a needle nose, I used a conical shapped jaws, miniature pliers, the type used for jewelry, to make small rings and I compressed those little ears, gently, to "expand" the plastic, so that those ball tabs extend out further on the head and thus, this makes the flybar and head smooth, by having the flybar to rotor head links more more parallel, but not totally. Drawing included below indicates this but has been exagerated a bit, to make this point.
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Old May 02, 2008, 08:02 PM
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Caution on using Springs and Rubber Bands to Take up Vertical Slack of SP on the 4#3

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeskuro
newly into this hobby and got a 4#3. Stock at the moment aside from a spring from a pen to hold the swash plate steady. I've not dared adjust anything at the moment, but after looking at that video I can not imagine mine ever being that steady. Mine normally pitches backwards. I've got it to the point its very steady with the tail rotor but hovering like that video is awesome and quite appealing!
Mike
Be careful not to use a spring that is too powerful because although the idea of it holding the SP in place is a good one, the force this can place on the links/sockets from the SP on up to the Flybar can work against the control of the helicopter (bind posisible or create to much friction on the link pivots), instead of helping.

My recommendation is not to use mods that restric the smooth pivoting of all joints like tose on all the control links.

Instead use two carefully cut pieces of light smal diameter plastic tubing (round coffee stirrirers might work), to fit on top and below the SP so that it keeps it from moving up and down without placing tension forces , sucha as springs and rubber bands on the SP arms itsself.

The pitching backwards

Is normally due to the helicopter being tail heavy, this is notorious with the stock 4#3 if you place the battery on the cradle all the way to the back. Adjust the battery forward a bit use tape or pieces of sheet thin foam to hold the battery in place once you have it placed so that the heli flies more stable. If you use the MIA Upgrade frames this is done with the rubber band provided in the later kits to hold the battery at the correct CG position.
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Old May 02, 2008, 09:20 PM
I HOOVER because I SUCK!
Portland,Oregon U.S.A.
Joined Sep 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexgen
I think what they mean is that the heli starts to sway in a circle, keeping the heading relatively stable. The heli starts to drift in a circular pattern. I have experienced this, and the things that I could identify that needed improvement on my heli were:

1.the paddle pitch (I like mine a 0 degrees)

2.the blade tracking. On one side of the revolution one blade provides more lift swinging toward the nose, and the same blade on the other side doing the same thing, but swinging toward the tail. The heli will have uneven lift at any given moment, causing it not to be as stable, and causing it to drift, then eventually pendulum (or tbe as we so affectionately call it)

3. If the swash is even a little bit out of level, the heli will move , and when the heli moves it will try to right itself ever so slightly causing it to move in the other direction. Like Mario said, the pendulum effect will start. We all remember the pendulum in the sand right. When you swing it, it will slowly work itself into a circle shape rather than a line.

To sum it up, you would want to make sure that your heli is a rock solid and balanced as possible. These effects are present in all helis, but are greatly amplified (as well as regular flight characteristics) in sub micro helis that we all love so much. The only heli that I saw that was stable hands off for any extended period of time was 3VW, check out his hover stability clip on youtube. He did spend A LOT of time balancing everything on his heli to get this to work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSew_jdNcyc

4#3 v2 flys almost that stable out of the box-new gearing and dampening

a little tweaking and it is hoh

mk
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Old May 02, 2008, 09:21 PM
internet rebel
akguanja's Avatar
wasilla, alaska
Joined Sep 2007
490 Posts
great info mario. i dont quite understand ure parralel head links picture/explination do you have a more detailed pic?

-tre
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Old May 03, 2008, 01:21 AM
Put a Quark in it!
nexgen's Avatar
USA, MN, Brainerd
Joined Feb 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello

MIA TIP for a more parallel flybar to head links. Smoother pivoting rotor head and crispier control


What I actually did on the 4#3 head of some of my helis is, I used , instead of a needle nose pliers a round, conical shapped miniature pliers, the type used for jewelry, to make rings and I compressed those little ears, gently, to "expand" the plastic, so that those ball tabs extend out further and thus this makes the flybar and head smooth, by having the flybar to rotor head links more parallel but not totally. Drawing included below indicates this but has been exagerated a bit, to make point.
Another way to accomplish this is with the dogbone mod to the rotor head, just dont insert the dogbone pieces in as far and te balls end up in a petter position to achieve this effect. IMO I think that anybody should do this mod, even if the ball links are good on their head now, as the dogbone mod makes the links rock solid, and the chance of them coming out of alignment are practically nil.
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Old May 03, 2008, 01:22 AM
Put a Quark in it!
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( I think I need to do the spelling mod in my fingers, lol)
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Old May 03, 2008, 09:41 AM
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Making the Rotor Head work Smoother with Flybar Links

Quote:
Originally Posted by akguanja
great info mario. i dont quite understand ure parralel head links picture/explination do you have a more detailed pic?

-tre
Follow my previous explanation of the "more parallel" rotor head to flybar links and drawing, with these photos, video.

http://www.micro-flight.com

Walkera 4#3 Rotor Head Mod - Making the Head Ultra Smooth! (2 min 11 sec)
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Old May 03, 2008, 01:13 PM
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United States, CA, Lake Forest
Joined Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarioIArguello
Follow my previous explanation of the "more parallel" rotor head to flybar links and drawing, with these photos, video.

http://www.micro-flight.com

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC0d41i6fFQ
Wouldn't that weaken the already weak plastic balls on the head? You should try the metal dogbone mod. Makes it unbreakable and also adjustable. No more flybar links popping off either.
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Old May 03, 2008, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fretman
Wouldn't that weaken the already weak plastic balls on the head? You should try the metal dogbone mod. Makes it unbreakable and also adjustable. No more flybar links popping off either.
The conical shaped pliers I use to do so are smooth and leaves a nice concave indentation so it makes the arms give a little. I have not broken them, nor popped them. Don't use a sharp tip pliers this type will weaken the plastic because if you conpress it wil create a sharp crease on the plastic, not a concave one.

Dogbone Mod Observations

Pros:
The use of it to place metals balls, for the head is nice, stronger than plastic.

Cons:

The drilling of the head, and glueing the dogboe to it, if you get this wrong, in the hole drilling or alignment or the dogbone install, you can throw off your control links symmetry.

The distance of the dogbone balls, still places the flybar to rotor head links on an angle, so all this does is replaces the rotor head plastic balls with metal. However it still restricts the up and down movement of the Rotor head via the steering mechanism which happens to be the flybar.

The distance of the dogbone balls is even smaller by 1/16" ! than the distance of the balls on the rotor head, this restricts the movement of the rotor head even further!. You want to minimize restriction to movement of head as much as possible, not increase it.

The Rotor Head mod I described is minimize the restriction on the up and down movement of the rotor head via the flybar by making the rotor head arms further away from the Center of the head and more in line (Not so much at an angle)with the flybar. This produces a very smooth moving rotor head and provides crisp control.
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Old May 03, 2008, 01:41 PM
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United States, OR, Independence
Joined Feb 2008
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Microkites -

You still have your Christmas tree up - we would get along great.....lol. I like your little heli. Is it just you or is the 4#3 that easy to fly? I will be stepping up to a FP soon, but I don't want one with a lot of issues. I'll keep reading.


jim
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