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Old Mar 27, 2008, 03:01 PM
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Rewinding 2410-12

Hello. This motor was used on my real thing and skimmer and it was balky at times and always needed a large prop to put out enough thrust. I rewound it with .4mm wire (17T ?) ABCABC lrk star and it still requires a large prop. My goal is to get it to spool up a 7" prop on 4s (150 watt limit) with the plush 10A esc and 4-1400mah emolis or equiv. What would be a good choice for wire, turns, pattern and termination (14 magnets)? I have a specific sport plane in mind that used a .09 glo engine. jim
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Last edited by jim e; Apr 05, 2008 at 08:10 AM. Reason: good help is difficult to find
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 08:35 AM
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Jim,

Try a 14 turn WYE (star termination). Go with a DLRK winding pattern (AabBCcaABbcC). On a 3S and an 8X6 with a 12 turn I was drawing 14 Amps or so on that motor. So for 4S I would gues a 14 turn with 7X4 would put you around 10-11 Amps or so.

-Alex
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 09:35 AM
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Same wire

Alex-Thanks for suggestions. Should i stay with the same gage wire (from 22.7 HC kit)? jim
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 10:23 AM
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Go with the thickest wire you can pack in the stator. 26AWG is good for about 11-12 amps in WYE configuration on that motor. 25 AWG is good for about 14 Amps.
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Old Mar 28, 2008, 05:54 PM
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Jim, a 12slot/14 magnetpole motor cannot be wound ABCABCABCABC, you have to use lrk or dlrk. An excellent dlrk winding tutorial
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=736580

Thickest wire possible: lower resistance, higher efficiency, higer power/weight ratio.

Higher efficiency does not only mean that the motor makes better use of the batteries' power, it also means the motor is able to handle a higher power input before hitting its maximum temperature mark i.e. a the power/weight ratio will be higher.
An example:
Say the motor has an efficiency of 70% and it can handle 50Watt input. That means it can get rid off 30%*50=15Watt excess heat. Now, by cramming in thicker wire (and/or using better stator-iron, segmented magnets), efficiency increases to say 75% (I'm a bit optimistic here). The motor's ability to loose those 15Watts has not changed (by radiation, convection and conduction). This means the motor now can handle 60Watt before it hits the 15Watt (25%*60Watt) losses mark. An efficiency increase of 5% gives an increase in the power to weight ratio of 20% (from 50Watt to 60Watt). That's why efficiency plays such an important role, in any motor design: efficiency governs maximum power. The motors weight may have increased a bit due to more copper.

Go to your local friendly motor/transformer rewinder/refurbisher or repair shop. Excellent quality, all gauges, penny stuff, you'll probably get it for free if you bring your motor along. They love it when they can handle a motor without an overhead crane And maybe let them have a spin with your plane once you finished your motor? You know, in case you need wire again for your next motor


Prettig weekend Ron van Sommeren
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Old Mar 29, 2008, 08:37 AM
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wound w/newbie wire

Did not have enough .4mm wire; had 26g newbie wire but skipped the gold colored because it felt thinner. Stator has passed the short test- now must finish re-assembly and terminate ; hope to have results by this eve. Thanks Ron and Alex. jim

My neighbor is a an electric motor repairperson-sometimes with Bluto-like disposition-other times more mellow- i should approach him for 20-30' of thicker wire!
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Old Mar 29, 2008, 10:44 AM
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update

Well the wire was way too thin- even with a 12x6 prop and 3s li-ion power consumption was a mere 55 watts. Gonna have to spray paint some Romex copper wire!! Will procure 22g or so wire and try again.
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Old Mar 29, 2008, 11:49 AM
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Wind two (three, four ...) wires in parallel. They still count as one wind.
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Old Mar 29, 2008, 11:50 AM
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Wind two (three, four ...) wires in parallel. They still count as one wind.

Go to your local friendly motor/transformer rewinder/refurbisher or repair shop. Excellent quality, all gauges, penny stuff, you'll probably get it for free if you bring your motor along. They love it when they can handle a motor without an overhead crane And maybe let them have a spin with your plane once you finished your motor? You know, in case you need wire again for your next motor
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Old Mar 29, 2008, 12:08 PM
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Jim

Take Ron's suggestion. There are electic motor shops north of you in Keene and Bratleborough. They usually have 6" spools kicking around with a 1/4lb or less of wire left on them that you could get cheap. Give em a call.

If they get grumpy on you let me know and I'll send you some

Paul
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Old Mar 31, 2008, 11:04 AM
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donation of 21g wire

Local shop-generous! 5 turns 21g dLRK results later
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Old Mar 31, 2008, 11:36 AM
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5 turns? what prop are you trying to turn, and on a 3s?? Seems like you're going to need more turns??
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Old Mar 31, 2008, 04:18 PM
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success, pic and test "boat"

Motor has been run on 2s and 3s storeage voltage lil emolis w/cox grey 7x3.5. almost 6A @7v-- the good news is really revs w/3s and minimal heat-8 inch props would be fine not ready to try 4s but that was the initial goal. These small props are perfect for the 1/2A size models i often build. The Flying Poodle may be resurrected (needs wing and stab- wing tilts for pitch;rudder4steering-36 ribs all the same for both) Will try to post watts/rpm etc on 3s. (five turns!!!21g) jim
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Old Mar 31, 2008, 06:45 PM
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3s test

Pushed motor up to 90 watts with depleted 3s li-ion 12k rpm- should be good for 10% more with fully charged battery. 4s li-ion should consume 15 or so amps with 7" prop and less than 20A with 8" -don't know if heat will be a problem. jim
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Old Apr 01, 2008, 02:30 PM
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4s w/6x4 3 blade

Pics are poor, winding was somewhat shabby but the motor does run okay on 4s. Eliminated bec, used rx battery, attached 6x4 (hard) 3 blade prop (grish?)
Part throttle 70watts rpm 12300. WOT 14.1A approx 13.?v 184watts 15,500rpm. Take away 9 watts for meter consumption. ESC is suppo 40A w/bec disabled, Batt 4s emoli's 1400mah. Neither outrunner or esc got even tepid Should fly the poodle or other 1/2-.09 airframe (Lanier Indicator!) Thanks to all- will close in day or so jim

Re-opened thread : After a good (synthetic) oiling the motor was run on 4s with apc 8x6e. Some serious thrust- throttle has to be advanced slowly!! Now going to rewind a 2409-18 delta with either 23 or 24 guage.
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Last edited by jim e; Apr 05, 2008 at 08:09 AM. Reason: another wind
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