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Old Jul 05, 2008, 09:02 AM
Proud to eat Kraut ;-)
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Germany
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
I guess what you could do is more like the way some digital clocks work. That is, the longer the increment/decrement button is held down, the larger the step size. So for example, after 10 steps at 100mA, change to 500mA. Once the button is released the increment goes back to 100mA so any overshoot is quick and easy for the user to correct
I like this idea even better than mine.

But to be honest, I dont think a 2200mAh Lipo will mind if charged at a 2,5A rate

Quote:
Also, does a lipo connected to the output of your charger power it up?
No, it does not.

Well, I will write an email now to HobbyCity, and ask how an exchenge will work.

Cheers,

Julian
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Old Jul 05, 2008, 09:35 AM
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Melbourne, Australia
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Keg - Hmm, well thank you for trying but they are too out of focus to tell what chipsets are being used. I look forward to hearing the results of your experiment
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Old Jul 05, 2008, 10:42 AM
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Is it okay to use a 12v Rail from 400w PC power supply to power up 106B charger?

Thanks.
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Old Jul 05, 2008, 06:30 PM
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Melbourne, Australia
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Yes but you will need at least a 5W load on the 5V rail to get it to regulate. Also a 400W PC power supply will not deliver 400W on the 12V rail. Check the rating, you need at least 18A on the 12V rail if you want to run the 106B at 180W output.

See here for more info: How to: Convert a Computer ATX Power Supply to a Lab Power Supply: http://www.wikihow.com/Convert-a-Com...b-Power-Supply
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Old Jul 05, 2008, 07:50 PM
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West Linn, Oregon
Joined Mar 2006
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iCharger 1010 vs competing chargers

Hello all,

I am somewhat puzzled with regard to to overwhelming response/following to the iCharger 1010. I do not have vested interest with any charger manufacturer so hopefully I present a unbiased perspective of value & feature set of chargers. Furthermore, I have ordered a iCharger106B, reason - seems to be an excellent value at < $100 and am impressed with Junsi's response to user feedback/input.

Examining specs, the iCharger 1010, ~200 Watt, priced at ~ $180 USD + S/H through United Hobbies does not hold a candle to the FMA Direct 10S, ~300 Watt, priced at $190 USD + S/H unless NiCd/NiMh/Pb charging and "brushed Motor Breakin" / Foam cutting is worth more to you than ~100 Watts of charge power and USB Firmware Upgrade/ PC data logging (for which you all are willing to spend additional sums and personal effort to just obtain Firmware Upgrade capability with the iCharger 1010 (no PC data logging/control)).

What am I not appreciating here, the iCharger 106B is a good value at < $100, the iCharger 1010 for 10 cell/200W vs 6 cell/180W and $180 is again puzzling.
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Old Jul 05, 2008, 08:36 PM
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A little more research will reveal that the FMA Cellpro10S is rated by the Mfr as 300W INPUT and they give no specification for the output power. User testing has shown it is only 180W output.

Cellpro10S benefits over the 1010B:
* PC interface for upgrade, config and logging
* per-cell Ri measurement
* US distributor and support

Cellpro10S benefits over the 1010B+:
* None based on their features and specifications

iC1010B+ benefits over the CP10S:
* Multichemistry
* Genuine 200W output even down to 11V input
* 300W output with 14V input
* Discharge and cycle features (30W/7A internal, up to 270W/7A with an external load)
* PC interface cable included in base price
* A little more compact

You might find this comparison interesting
Quote:
TP1010C vs CP10S vs iC106B+ vs iC101B+ vs Hyp0610iDUO
kgfly, 29 Oct 2008

FMA Cellpro 10S (~$190)
- Requires DC power (up to 300W, full output power requires 15V input)
- LiXx only
- 2s-10s integrated balance charger with two series connected 5S ports
- 180W/10A output (Mfr claims up to 260W but this has not been achieved by users)
- Balance current 1000mA (best of breed)
- Per-cell Ri measurement
- Manual, 1C, 2C and 3C LiXx cycles
- No discharge features
- 6 memories
- no temperature probe
- PC interface (configuration and logging, required for advanced configuration) (cable is optional extra)
- some balance plug adapters available

iCharger 106B (~$100) Replaced by 106B+, see below
- Requires DC power (>250W, full output power requires 14V input)
- Full multichemsitry LiXx/NiXx/Pb
- 2s-6s integrated balance charger (with on board 2s-6s JST-XH balance sockets)
- 210W/10A output (180W at 11V input, full power at 14V input)
- Balance current 300mA
- No per-cell Ri measurement
- Normal, Fast, Slow, Balance and Storage LiXx cycles
- Discharge features (20W)
- 10 memories
- optional temperature probe
- hidden PC interface (easy mod to add it)
- some balance plug adapters available

iCharger 106B+ (~$130)
- Requires DC power (>300W, full output power requires 14V input)
- Full multichemsitry LiXx/NiXx/Pb
- 2s-6s integrated balance charger (with on board 2s-6s JST-XH balance sockets)
- 250W/10A output (180W at 11V input, full power at 14V input)
- Balance current 300mA
- Per-cell Ri measurement
- Normal, Fast, Slow, Balance and Storage LiXx cycles
- Discharge features (20W/7A internal, 170W/7A with external load)
- 10 memories
- optional temperature probe
- USB PC interface (upgrade and data logging)
- some balance plug adapters available

iCharger 1010B (~$180) Replaced by 1010B+, see below
- Requires DC power (>300W, full output power requires 14V input)
- Full multichemsitry LiXx/NiXx/Pb
- 2s-10s integrated balance charger
- 250W/10A output (200W at 11V input, full power at 14V input)
- Balance current 300mA
- No per-cell Ri measurement
- Normal, Fast, Slow, Balance and Storage LiXx cycles
- Discharge features (30W/7A)
- 10 memories
- optional temperature probe
- hidden PC interface (easy mod to add it)
- some balance plug adapters available

iCharger 1010B+ (>$180)
- Requires DC power (>350W, full output power requires 14V input)
- Full multichemsitry LiXx/NiXx/Pb
- 2s-10s integrated balance charger
- 300W/10A output (200W at 11V input, full power at 14V input)
- Balance current 300mA
- Per-cell Ri measurement
- Normal, Fast, Slow, Balance and Storage LiXx cycles
- Discharge features (30W/7A internal, 280W/7A with external load)
- 10 memories
- optional temperature probe
- USB PC interface (upgrade and data logging)
- some balance plug adapters available

Hyperion 0610i DUO (~$270)
- Requires DC power (>400W, full output power requires 15V input)
- Full multichemsitry LiXx/NiXx/Pb
- Dual independent ports each 2s-6s integrated balance charger
- 180W/10A output per port (full output power requires 15V input)
- Balance current 300mA
- Per-pack Ri measurement
- Balance, SynchBalance (balance across the ports) and TCS (can be used for Storage) LiXx cycles
- LiXx dischage at max. of 300 mA and also Auto Storage mode will dischage or charge as needed (added in v1.5)
- 10 memories per port
- optional temperature probe per port
- PC interface for logging and firmware upgrades (cable is optional extra)
- JST-XH, TP/FP and Hyp/PQ balance plug adapters available

- DUO-II adds better LCD and 50W discharge per port


ThunderPower 1010 + 210V balancer (~$280)
- Requires DC power (>270W, full output power available at 12V input)
- Full multichemsitry LiXx/NiXx/Pb
- 2s-10s separate balancer (210V) with datalink back to the charger
- 220W/10A output
- Balance current ?300mA?
- No Ri measurements
- Normal and ?other? cycles
- Discharge 28W
- ?temperature probe?
- PC interface for firmware upgrades (cable is optional extra)

=====================
The DUO is an excellent candidate for those that want a dual-port charger with fully independent ports (chemisty, cell-count/voltage, capacity, current and start/stop can all be different on the two ports) and don't need support for more than 6S on any single pack. The very low 300mA discharge capability or lack of NiXx cycle/discharge features are issues for some users. This is addresses in the DUO-II which adds a much better LCD and 50W/port discharge.

The CP10S is an excellent LiXx-only candidate for those that want single-pack capability above 6S and a full PC interface.

The iC1010B+ is perhaps the best value for a full multichemistry solution with single-pack capability above 6S in a remarkably compact and conveniently portable size.

Choosing amongst the CP10S ($190), iC1010B+ (>$180), a pair of iC106B+ (~$240)and the DUO ($270) is indeed a bit of a challenge. At the moment the criteria might include:

* Need NiXx or Pb => not CP10S
* Need single packs over 6S => not DUO or iC106B+
* Need PC interface off the shelf today => not TP1010C if you want logging
* Need independent two port operation => DUO or 2 x iC106B+
* Need operation fom 24V DC => DUO
* Need max output power from a 12V Pb source => iC1010B+ or TP1010C
* Need US local Mfr/support => CP10S or TP1010C
* Need per-cell Ri measurement => not the TP1010C
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Last edited by kgfly; Oct 28, 2008 at 08:08 PM. Reason: Updated for ic106B+ and 1010B+
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Old Jul 05, 2008, 10:06 PM
Plastics Weenie
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San Diego
Joined Jul 2007
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Don't know if this has been posted yet, but I recently saw that you can buy the 1010B from B-P-P.com now... So you don't have to worry about ordering it from China.
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Old Jul 05, 2008, 10:18 PM
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USA, IL, Champaign
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luky
Don't know if this has been posted yet, but I recently saw that you can buy the 1010B from B-P-P.com now... So you don't have to worry about ordering it from China.
Are you certain that they sell the icharger 1010B? The only 1010B I see is the Chargery Power 1010B. There are differences between these two chargers.
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Old Jul 06, 2008, 12:30 AM
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USA, IL, Champaign
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Charger comparisons

Quote:
Need independent two port operation => DUO or 2 x iC106B
I bought two 106B's for this very reason. Two of the 106B's equals 360watts total for $160. I spent another $25 or so and some time installing a firmware upgrade ability so that brings the total up to $185. I have still spent much less than the Hyperion option $270 which I might add has less features that I want. Since I already have the upgrade device, I went ahead and ordered another for my 4 cells I am looking at the future with the ability of these new cells to charge at 2C rate, A123's and the ability to upgrade to charge new types of batteries. These new chargers are quite a leap forward from the old Celectra's, HXT, MKII I currently have for charging.
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Old Jul 06, 2008, 08:38 AM
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Excellent Kgfly! Again the only significant feature I didnt see mentioned was the ability to see internal resistance which is great on the Cellpro and present on the Duo.
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Old Jul 06, 2008, 08:44 AM
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Melbourne, Australia
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Thanks. Good point NCguy, I have updated the post above including the summary for future reference.
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Old Jul 06, 2008, 09:48 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
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(DUO corrections)


- Per-cell Ri measurement ( per battery not per cell)
- Balance, SynchBalance (balance across the ports) and TCS (can be used for Storage) LiXx cycles
- No discharge features (plan to add very slow discharge via the balancer in the future) ( Li dischage at max. of 300 mA and also Auto Storage mode will dischage or charge as needed V 1.5)


Quote:
TCS (can be used for Storage
I am most likely one of the very few who really cares but TCS can be used with LiPoly to limit the max. charged to percentage / voltage. A few of us are fully aware that 4.15 volts per cell is much kinder on the cells tnan packing them 100% full to 4.2 volts per cell. FYI Thunder Power 1010C was the first LiPoly charger that I am aware of to offer a less than 100% charge to option for LiPolys.

Charles
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Last edited by everydayflyer; Jul 06, 2008 at 09:54 AM.
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Old Jul 06, 2008, 09:57 AM
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Thank you Charles, I have corrected the comments/summary above for future reference. Hope I got it right this time !
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Old Jul 06, 2008, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
I am most likely one of the very few who really cares but TCS can be used with LiPoly to limit the max. charged to percentage / voltage. A few of us are fully aware that 4.15 volts per cell is much kinder on the cells tnan packing them 100% full to 4.2 volts per cell. FYI Thunder Power 1010C was the first LiPoly charger that I am aware of to offer a less than 100% charge to option for LiPolys.
The 106B and 1010B offer two ways to limit the charge voltage. The direct way is to simply edit the cutoff voltage for the LiXx chemistry of your choice. The indirect way that I have been using for some time is to use the Fast Charge or Fast Balance modes. These modes have a higher termination current. This effectively ends the CV phase earlier than the Normal (or Slow) modes. My packs get charged to 4.17V this way which gives me benefits along the same lines as 4.15V cutoff.
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Old Jul 06, 2008, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgfly
Thank you Charles, I have corrected the comments/summary above for future reference. Hope I got it right this time !
I get a headache thinking about the amount of time and posts that went into putting together this chart. Many, many thanks to you, Charles, and others that made all this possible! There is no way one could make as educated a decision without reading this comparison.

You may want to consider starting a comparison thread with your chart as the first post. It could easily deserve its own thread. That is if people haven't already O.D.'d on this stuff already.
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