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Old Aug 21, 2010, 04:45 PM
TJin(Guy + Tech)
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United States, NM, Socorro
Joined Jun 2008
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One note though is that it does make the bulbs glow before it gives up. They get to about 1/3 brightness. That should put the resistance at nearly it's leveled off state but the charger just says no

That's cool though. I was just looking for confirmation that I wasn't doing something stupid and I got it. Thanks guys.
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Old Aug 21, 2010, 06:34 PM
as much as I can
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NZ
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Curiosity killed the cat but I have to ask.

What is the issue / problem with the Auto Star as it is?

Charger shows Battery Type and Charge Type selected, number of cells,charge rate and you have to press Start. The only step eliminated is having to press start again after the charger does it's check to confirm that the number of cells selected(displayed) matched voltage range wise according to input derived by the battery leads.

Personally I love this new feature but then I am the one who suggested it along with updating not clearing all of the user's customized Settings and Memories.

Many times at the field I have thought that I started a charge only to come back after a flight )10 minutes or so ) only to find it still waiting for that extra conformation press.

Charles
+1 *claps*
I'm switching between 3S and 6S, so this feature is brilliant!!!
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 04:39 AM
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The auto-start feature (as I remember) was meant or requested to be a user selectable setting, I am curious as to why that wasnt implemented that way. I am even happy if it still "auto-detects" the pack size (eg 3S, 6S etc) but I am specifically refering the the final confirmation prompt.

Its hard to explain - there are other "semi safe" ways around it for me but its just not "ideal" for my purpose, I realise others prefer not to have "another" button to press, however with my 3S in series, the moving the whole lot into a lipo sack etc etc, I simply perfer the 2nd confirmation (and re-dectection if necessary) prior to the charge commencing.

(Again, This is why I had really hoped it was implemented as user selectable......)
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 06:42 AM
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Perth, Tasmania, Australia
Joined May 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzDruiD View Post
The auto-start feature (as I remember) was meant or requested to be a user selectable setting, I am curious as to why that wasnt implemented that way. I am even happy if it still "auto-detects" the pack size (eg 3S, 6S etc) but I am specifically refering the the final confirmation prompt.

Its hard to explain - there are other "semi safe" ways around it for me but its just not "ideal" for my purpose, I realise others prefer not to have "another" button to press, however with my 3S in series, the moving the whole lot into a lipo sack etc etc, I simply perfer the 2nd confirmation (and re-dectection if necessary) prior to the charge commencing.

(Again, This is why I had really hoped it was implemented as user selectable......)
My take on this is that the significant majority prefer auto detect and this is why this is implemented. My Orbit, Shultze and Elprog Pulsar all do this. Market forces will invariably determine the functionality of a product and the iCharger line is no different, hence the reason Junsi and his team implemented the "auto-detect". There will always be a "minority" who prefer it otherwise. I use a LiPo sack and am happy with Junsi responding to the majority market preferences.

Out of curiosity, why do you need the "second confirmation" to place into a LiPo sack?

George
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 10:34 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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Quote:
The auto-start feature (as I remember) was meant or requested to be a user selectable setting, I am curious as to why that wasnt implemented that way.
Once again in very clear english. I am the one whio requested the Auto Charge if the cell count matches feacture. It works exactly as I requested / suggested.

The Cell Pro chargers have set the number of cells based on the cell count obtained thrugh balancing leads connections since day one (many years) and in fact is one of their primary safety feactures.

There have been many LiPolys damaged by setting a charger to the wrong cell count and starting a charge. The iChargers already used the balancing leads to check the pack voltage and compare it to the main power leads pack voltage. This was not changed. The change was not having to set the number of cells. This means that 1C thrugh the charger's max. cell count can be charged using a single memory instead of one for each cell count or having to change the cell count with each different LiPoly charged.

Sorry if a few do not like this feacture but I for one hope that it si left as is. Adding a user selectable option in theory would be fine but it seems that very often a firmware change leads to addational bugs which must be found and eliminated.

Charles
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Old Aug 22, 2010, 11:03 AM
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Winnipeg, MB Canada
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Re-read above and question answered. T.
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Old Aug 24, 2010, 03:41 AM
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Australia, QLD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Once again in very clear english. I am the one whio requested the Auto Charge if the cell count matches feacture. It works exactly as I requested / suggested.
English isn't the problem. I remember reading somewhere (wherever you OR others originally mentioned or requested this new feature) that it was suggested that it should be user selectable to turn that auto feature on\off. I dont necessarilly believe it was how "YOU" requested it - and frankly, I cannot be bothered to find the actual post in this 550odd thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Sorry if a few do not like this feacture but I for one hope that it si left as is. Adding a user selectable option in theory would be fine but it seems that very often a firmware change leads to addational bugs which must be found and eliminated.

Charles
Requesting it be changed back just for my beneifit, would be inconsiderate of others....... whether they DO or DONT like it. Like everything else in life, majority rules - however it would have been nice for the minority to be given the option.

Personally being a IT Manager - I am INTIMATELY familiar with processes surrounding designing, developing, testing in the lab (Lets call this ALPHA testing), UAT\Pilot Testing (lets call it BETA testing) and final stable release of full applications, . I really believe that a simple "on\off" setting would have been fairly easy to a) implement and b) test...


Finally,
Charles - I am not sure - but your phrasing of "Once again in very clear english" seems to indicate your frustrated or annoyed at my request (or my understanding \ repeating my post). I apologise if thats the case. Let me be clear at least on that point if I can - I appreciate your past and I am sure future efforts to improve this product, so don't think I take your efforts for granted.. it is appreciated and I agree you can NEVER please everyone.

That being said, I am going to leave off here in relation to the auto-start feature thing, I dont want to drag this out any future and if possible, I will personally request it direct to Junsi - if a future release is ever planned.

I still have these Cell Voltage inbalance errors and have performed all the various checks listed on the front page, following the correct "connection" procedures, checking the ohm reading of each and every pin of the balance ports, to performing recalibration (Ports\Cells 3 and 5 where off by 0.002x volts) - testing performed using a very expensive and recently calibrated Fluke meter and scope to check out the electronics.

There is something clearly amiss with either my specific unit (apart from the testing listed above) or the code\design in terms of checking the "cell voltage" for me to be able to prove it out and replicate the problem time after time. I think it might be usefull to do a little video to highlight specifically what I mean however that may take some time for me to get a video camera.
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Old Aug 24, 2010, 06:41 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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The cell voltage incorrect issue you have with one of your ichargers happens ....

Only when both balancing and power leads are not connected?

Randonly ?

Only one of your chargers does this or both ?

iCharger 208B with Rev. 3.11C installed 11-24-2010 9 months to the day of fairly heavy useage and no errors.

Set to Monitor connect balancing leads only and press start and works fine .
Change to balance charge and press Start and get Low Voltage Error as I would expect.
Connect main power leads and press Start agian and works fine.

Charles
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Old Aug 24, 2010, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
The cell voltage incorrect issue you have with one of your ichargers happens ....
Only when balancing leads are connected WITHOUT mains leads. If the mains are connected BEFORE (or AFTER) the balance leads the Cell's display the correct voltages. Its my understanding that the later versions of firmware (3.12 ?? and greater?) did NOT need the mains leads connected?

iCharger 106b+ - Firmwares tested 3.10, 3.12, 3,13d,e,f (agreed.. its not expected to work with 3.10, thats just my original firmware supplied as manufactured).
I press and Hold first button (Batt Type\ Stop) - then press the 3rd button (INC) to scroll the menus left to view all cell voltages and it shows high voltage on Cell 1, lower voltage on Cell2 (of a 2S pack). I purposfully havent called it Monitor as I dont want to confuse with monitor "mode". Hope you understand what I am meaning.

Specifically, as per the Manual on Page 8, Point #6.
-----------snipped from the PDF Manual-----------
6. Press Stop/Batt type for more than 3 seconds to start the display of the active test information as per the following diagram.
Present testing information:
1:4 .1 1 4.12 ----
4:---- ---- ----
In this display the output voltage is the idle voltage measured at the output terminals (that is, the voltage of the connected battery pack).
------end of snip --------------------------------

Essentially, its appears as if it takes some of the voltage "value" from the 2nd cell and ADDS it to the value of the 1st cell and then displays them as such.

This is a rough example only, I will try and get actuall pictures of what i mean.
My DVM reads my 2S pack as 4.20v, 4.20v
The iCharge Display reads 4.90v,3.50v

Lastly, If i then CONNECT the mains leads - the iCharger Display corrects itself, updates and accurately reads 4.20v, 4.20v. Disconnect them - BHAM - it immediatly drops back to 4.90v, 3.50v. I find that paricularlly intresting as it indicates some sort of reliance upon the mains leads - be it some kind of grounding issue or something with the balance ports.

Note:- I have completed both the BAL Error (ohm testing) and also tested calibration of cell voltages across all 6 cells, (only off on Cells 3 and 5 by 0.003).
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Old Aug 24, 2010, 07:16 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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iCharger 208B with Rev. 3.13b installed 8-19-10.

Balance charge connect balancing leads only and greeted with error,connect power leads and error goes away all is fine.

Set to Monitor and connect balancing leads only and all is fine .

To me it is logical that both the balancing leads and the power leads have to be connected to do a balance charge, therefor if both are not connected charger should detect and display an error. On the other had if you only want to check cell voltages then Monitor only requires balancing leads connection.


Charles
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Old Aug 24, 2010, 07:33 AM
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Australia, QLD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
iCharger 208B with Rev. 3.13b installed 8-19-10.

Balance charge connect balancing leads only and greeted with error,connect power leads and error goes away all is fine.
Agreed - mine does the same


Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
Set to Monitor and connect balancing leads only and all is fine .
If by Monitor, you mean the simple "hold stop for 3 seconds" to "test" voltages, then mine doesnt display an ERROR as such, but voltages are incorrect but its not a calibration thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
To me it is logical that both the balancing leads and the power leads have to be connected to do a balance charge, therefor if both are not connected charger should detect and display an error.
Yes agreed totally, and it does (if you try and do a Balance Charge). However ....
Quote:
Originally Posted by everydayflyer View Post
On the other had if you only want to check cell voltages then Monitor only requires balancing leads connection.
Yep - thats all I am trying to do but the voltages are WAY OFF and totally incorrect UNLESS I then connect the mains leads.

Bizzare isnt it. Think I will just have to give up and connect the mains leads all the time or be forced to buy a separate Lipo 3s\6S tester - but I prefer the iCharger as its usually so accurate when balancing and even after two years I only had VERY slight calibration drift.

PM sent to Junsi as last resort.
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Old Aug 24, 2010, 09:50 AM
Southern Pride
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Haralson County GA. USA
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By Monitor I mean using the Inc button and scrolling to Monitor while in the LiPoly Mode.

This is the same mode one would use if they were only Monitoring the cells voltages while charging or discharging with another device connected to the main power leads such as checking voltages under a load.

Charles.
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Old Aug 24, 2010, 10:40 AM
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Ok yep - then thats what I am talking about.
Here is a video I just made with a friend and he has uploaded it to youtube.

iCharger 106b+ Cell Voltage Issue (1 min 28 sec)

Start of Video
- Boot unit, shows Firmware Vers 3.13f,
- Monitor mode to avoid any known errors about mains leads etc.
- Place unit into Cell voltage monitor and then connect 2S pack.

13seconds into video
- shows Cell 1 - 3.79, Cell 2 - 3.68
- Note:- Cell 2 can deviate wildly - from approx 3.55 up to the correct cell voltage 3.77

25 Seconds
- Connect the mains leads to show the affect on the cell 2 voltage - stabalises at 3.79 (up from 3.68).

40 Seconds
- Connect and disconnect the mains leads whilst showing the voltage at the correct level, then drop again (cell 2) to 3.55v (apologies its a little unclear, but still able to be read that it has dropped to 3.55v on cell2)

56 seconds
- Using a "cheap" multimeter (fluke is at work) showing that cell voltage is 3.77 on BOTH cells - not the values (3.68v or 3.55v) that the iCharger detects on cell 2.

1Min 10 seconds
- Connect a 3S lipo, without mains leads, to show that 3S works fine and accurate shows voltage levels without any issue.


The KEY issue - is how when using a 2S pack (and only 2S) there is a very big voltage differnential on Cell2 when ONLY balance leads are connected.
I am NOT concerned with the slight (0.01-0.03) voltages differences show eg .. 3.78 vs 3.77 on my cheap multimeter, its a combination of a cheap mutlimeter, Semi - discharged Lipo's etc.

There is also NO damage to the 2S balance tap, surrounding resistors, PCB track or components. "Bal Error" PDF procedure was also followed, checking with decent fluke meter at work reveals 0.0005 ohm reading on all balance tap "pins".
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Old Aug 25, 2010, 03:14 AM
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Son, Norway
Joined Sep 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzDruiD View Post
There is also NO damage to the 2S balance tap, surrounding resistors, PCB track or components. "Bal Error" PDF procedure was also followed, checking with decent fluke meter at work reveals 0.0005 ohm reading on all balance tap "pins".
To rule out the 2S port completely, you could try to connect it to one of the other ports via some kind of adapter. Another possibility is to pull out the most positive wire on a 3S pack to simulate a 2S pack in the 3S port.
Which main wire needs to be connected to get proper readings, -, + or both?

Fred
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Old Aug 25, 2010, 03:51 AM
iCharger
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Joined Mar 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzDruiD View Post
Ok yep - then thats what I am talking about.
Here is a video I just made with a friend and he has uploaded it to youtube.

iCharger 106b+ Cell Voltage Issue (1 min 28 sec)

Start of Video
- Boot unit, shows Firmware Vers 3.13f,
- Monitor mode to avoid any known errors about mains leads etc.
- Place unit into Cell voltage monitor and then connect 2S pack.

13seconds into video
- shows Cell 1 - 3.79, Cell 2 - 3.68
- Note:- Cell 2 can deviate wildly - from approx 3.55 up to the correct cell voltage 3.77

25 Seconds
- Connect the mains leads to show the affect on the cell 2 voltage - stabalises at 3.79 (up from 3.68).

40 Seconds
- Connect and disconnect the mains leads whilst showing the voltage at the correct level, then drop again (cell 2) to 3.55v (apologies its a little unclear, but still able to be read that it has dropped to 3.55v on cell2)

56 seconds
- Using a "cheap" multimeter (fluke is at work) showing that cell voltage is 3.77 on BOTH cells - not the values (3.68v or 3.55v) that the iCharger detects on cell 2.

1Min 10 seconds
- Connect a 3S lipo, without mains leads, to show that 3S works fine and accurate shows voltage levels without any issue.


The KEY issue - is how when using a 2S pack (and only 2S) there is a very big voltage differnential on Cell2 when ONLY balance leads are connected.
I am NOT concerned with the slight (0.01-0.03) voltages differences show eg .. 3.78 vs 3.77 on my cheap multimeter, its a combination of a cheap mutlimeter, Semi - discharged Lipo's etc.

There is also NO damage to the 2S balance tap, surrounding resistors, PCB track or components. "Bal Error" PDF procedure was also followed, checking with decent fluke meter at work reveals 0.0005 ohm reading on all balance tap "pins".
Hello OzDruiD,

I have replied your PM. Please check it.
Thank you for your cooperation.

Kind regards,
Junsi
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