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Old Jun 28, 2008, 03:02 PM
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Fab66's Avatar
Moselle, France
Joined May 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julez
I see.

Try getting "tuner contact spray" from a local electronics shop. This is a mild cleaner for contacts, like tuning pots on a radio.
I had an older charger where the buttons needed to be pressed very firmly to work. I opened the case, a dash of the spray right onto the button case, so that the liquid can flow inside, let it evaporate for 10mins...voila, good as new!

Junsi,
if you need really high quality buttons, try the mec brand.
I use them in a charger I built, and never in my life I experienced better buttons. They have an excellent tactile feedback, and I never had problems with switch bounce or intermittent contact.
Hello

i found in my workshop this spray, nice ! so i spray this product and for the moment the switch run better.

Thank Julez for the tip
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 03:40 PM
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Hi,

Sorry if this issue has been raised, but I did skip through the thread and couldn't see it.

I am charging a 2s 850 mAh Lipo on my new 1010B in Lipo Balance Normal. Problem is, it doesn't terminate the charge, only when it runs out of time on the safety cut out (set at 120 min). When I change to Lipo Balance Fast, it still takes over 105 min., after only 80% discharge of the battery.

I understand the cut off maths, i.e. 1/10 or 1/5 Icc, and presumably the fact that this is a small battery means that this fraction is very small, but the charger just seems to discharge through the balance leads as fast as it charges after about 50 minutes.

Is there any solution to this. It is a bit annoying that it takes so long. I can just stop the charge, but I wonder if it is damaging the lipos to keep charging when not necessary. My Lipro-plus 5 seems more convenient, and at half the price!

Grateful for suggestions, thanks, Alastair.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 04:01 PM
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Kyalami, South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenex
I used a servo wire as stated earlier leaving the end outside the case just below the charger power connection wires. I soldered the wires so that the TX pin from the TTL device would go to the TX point listed in the PDF file. Same with the wires for the RX and Ground pins to the RX and Ground points listed in the PDF. I powered up the charger before and after jumper to make sure it was working properly. I followed the instructions turning on the charger with jumper in place, cut the jumper then attached the servo wire extension to the servo connector just outstide the charger then plugged the other end into the TTL device. I went over to the computer, attached the TTL device to the USB cable, fired up the updater program, selected the update file and started the update. Worked first time I removed the jumper wire afterward and reassembled the charger. I hooked up one a battery and tested the charger, charging and discharging, worked like a champ with the new 3.05 firmware.
Thats great Phoenix!, do you perhaps have a photo or two of the soldered wires and connections to share?
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 05:47 PM
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OK, now I have finished an interesting experiment that I was in the middle of when I made my first post. I took 4 identical batteries, Lipo 2s 850 mAh, all purchased at the same time, same amount of use on them, and I flew different times on my mini heli: battery #1 for a full 6 minutes, equivalent to 80% discharge, then 5 min for bat. #2; 4min #3 and 3min #4, all just hovering.

When I charged them (lipo balanced charge fast, 0.8amp), they all took about the same time. Bat. #1 took 109 mins; #2 timed out at 120 mins; #3 took 116mins and #4 timed out also. At the start of the CV stage, the current decreased fairly quickly to 0.23-0.24 amp., then just sat there for over 1 hour, during which time, if I went to the individual cell volt screen, both numbers were flashing. It seems that this chrger cannot handle small batteries. Is anyone else seeing this, or do I have a faulty unit.

Alastair
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 06:39 PM
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Fab66 - I had a problem at one stage after opening and then reassembling the case where the Start button was sticking mechanically. The tolerances on the cutouts for the buttons are very fine and a slight misalignment when reassembling the case can place too much pressure on the switch to allow it to move and contact properly. At the time I simply opened and reclosed the case carefully ensuring the switches all moved freely and it was fine again.

aliboy - I have charged my 2S 1000mAh packs on both the 106B and 1010B in both Normal and Fast Balance modes without seeing the problem you describe. I have seen similar behaviour on several chargers with my oldest and most abused 3S 2250mAh Hextronik pack (200+ cycles, many crashes, always stored fully charged etc). The problem is that the cells will simply never hold balance long enough for the charger to be happy. I have not tried charging that pack on the iChargers but I would not be suprised to see them time out as well. So what brand are your 2S 850 packs, how many cycles and what sort of care or abuse have they experienced ?

It would be interesting if anyone else has some small packs in good condition to hear how they go.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 08:23 PM
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Thanks for the reply Kgfly. The packs are Aplus brand, which I suppose you could call a 'value' brand, but I have had a few 2200 3s packs from them which are all good. The 2s 850 15C packs I am having the trouble with are all less than 20 cycles old, never abused or crashed, never more than 80% capacity discharged. My watt meter tells me that they are pretty close to 12amps on start-up, but in flight I am below 10amps, which is less than 80% continuous discharge capacity. I would say they are in perfect condition.

The interesting thing is that my cheap balance charger has no problems with these, maybe the 1010B is too sensitive. Tomorrow I'll run down a couple of the 3s packs and try them.

Cheers, Alastair
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgfly
Fab66 - I had a problem at one stage after opening and then reassembling the case where the Start button was sticking mechanically. The tolerances on the cutouts for the buttons are very fine and a slight misalignment when reassembling the case can place too much pressure on the switch to allow it to move and contact properly. At the time I simply opened and reclosed the case carefully ensuring the switches all moved freely and it was fine again.
I have noticed this condition as well. I took a little extra time putting it back together so it would all fit just right.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julez
Cool, this is encouraging!
So you only used 3 wires: RX, TX and GND, right?
Yes, just the 3 wires you mention. I did power the TTL device via USB by soldering a very small bridge on the TTL device's PCB as shown in the link below. I did this awhile back when installing the device and testing on the pc.

PCB jpeg

Quote:
Thats great Phoenix!, do you perhaps have a photo or two of the soldered wires and connections to share?
Thanks for the nice comments. I thought about some photos but the same pictures pretty much exist in the thread already. My installation looks nearly the same as at the link below but with the servo connector on the outside of the end plate just below the power connection leads.

BlueAngle2000's nice picture
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 10:28 PM
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Quote:
aliboy - I have charged my 2S 1000mAh packs on both the 106B and 1010B in both Normal and Fast Balance modes without seeing the problem you describe. I have seen similar behaviour on several chargers with my oldest and most abused 3S 2250mAh Hextronik pack (200+ cycles, many crashes, always stored fully charged etc). The problem is that the cells will simply never hold balance long enough for the charger to be happy. I have not tried charging that pack on the iChargers but I would not be suprised to see them time out as well. So what brand are your 2S 850 packs, how many cycles and what sort of care or abuse have they experienced ?

It would be interesting if anyone else has some small packs in good condition to hear how they go.
kgfly,

I have also seen a big difference in how long it takes to the charger to complete balancing at the end of the charge cycle depending upon the age and condition of the battery involved. I see no reason for the charger to take that long on an older or less than great condtion battery. Why not have charger itself shutdown after a given amount of time attempting to balance at the end of the charge cycle? I was using the 3.01 version of the firmware when I noticed this behavior.
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Last edited by Phoenex; Jun 29, 2008 at 04:05 PM.
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 03:31 AM
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Joined Dec 2006
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jun 29,2008 stock in HC



stock in HC is 5 chargers now.(jun 29,2008)

Junsi,

What is the current software version for 1010B in HC stock ?3.05?
I want to 3.05 version.

Rick
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 03:36 AM
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Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Why not have charger itself shutdown after a given amount of time attempting to balance at the end of the charge cycle? I was using the 3.03 version of the firmware when I noticed this behavior.
It does, that is what the safety timer will do. I have the 2.8 software in my 1010B and 2.9 in my 106B.
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 04:13 AM
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Fab: Nice to see it worked!

Phoenex: Thanks for the information! Concerning the link to the PCB image, which contacts were connected? "1" on the left side and "4" on the right side?

Aliboy and others: I think it is due to the cell noise and the 5mV accuracy of the iCharger that this behaviour is shown. If the cell noise lies above 5mV, tha balancer will have a hard time. It will actually draw current alternately from the cells. It thinks it balances the ceslls, while in fact it only reacts to the voltage fluctuations due to cell noise. Older balancers with only 10mV-20mV accuracy will not react to these faint voltage fluctuations, as they are lower than their threshold, and thus the balancing process will finish faster.

The best countermeasure would be the following: (Junsi, listen up )
If the iCharger sees, that during a given time period, all cells are loaded about equally with the balancing current over a short time period, it has to come to the conclusion, that actually no balancing is taking place.
It now must stop reacting to every voltage fluctuation immediately, instead it should take a couple of voltage samples over time and take the average value. So the cell noise will have less influence. Based on these average values, it will determine wether there is a trend in the voltages showing the pack is unbalanced. If it is, brief pulses of balancing current are allowed.

Thus, fluctuating voltages will not trigger the balancing any more; only voltage trends will do.

If this average voltage stuff is to complicated, or the charger is technically unable to do this, how about just raising the voltage imbalance threshold, which activates the balancer, a little, until the cell noise is blinded out?

How does this sound?
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Last edited by Julez; Jun 29, 2008 at 04:20 AM.
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 04:26 AM
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Moselle, France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julez
Fab: Nice to see it worked!

Phoenex: Thanks for the information! Concerning the link to the PCB image, which contacts were connected? "1" on the left side and "4" on the right side?
.....
How does this sound?
Hello Julez,

yes it works but only for a limited time. During my next holydays (in a few week) i will search a replacement switch.

Fabrice
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 08:25 AM
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JunSi a local user has had a similar display problem with his 1010B as we have seen with the 106B.
Quote:
I have had to discharge ( storage charge) 4 3s packs today which I do as 3s+3s in series and I actually have the same issue as the 106b, the display adds random letters on the screen and I also get the same pixilation thru other screens just as the 106b did. The only additional is that as before, during the discharge the unit shuts off and displays a system check screen and locks out any inputs. I shut of completely for about ten minutes then recommenced the storage cycle and it operated thru to completion, once it is cool the LCD operates correctly
He is running v2.9 of the firmware.

Is there a fix for the 1010B equivalent to the "remove C47" fix for the 106B or do you have some other recommendation ?
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Last edited by kgfly; Jun 29, 2008 at 07:12 PM. Reason: Correct version from 2.8 to 2.9
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Old Jun 29, 2008, 08:32 AM
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USA, IL, Champaign
Joined Jul 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julez

Phoenex: Thanks for the information! Concerning the link to the PCB image, which contacts were connected? "1" on the left side and "4" on the right side?

Aliboy and others: I think it is due to the cell noise and the 5mV accuracy of the iCharger that this behaviour is shown. If the cell noise lies above 5mV, tha balancer will have a hard time. It will actually draw current alternately from the cells. It thinks it balances the ceslls, while in fact it only reacts to the voltage fluctuations due to cell noise. Older balancers with only 10mV-20mV accuracy will not react to these faint voltage fluctuations, as they are lower than their threshold, and thus the balancing process will finish faster.

The best countermeasure would be the following: (Junsi, listen up )
If the iCharger sees, that during a given time period, all cells are loaded about equally with the balancing current over a short time period, it has to come to the conclusion, that actually no balancing is taking place.
It now must stop reacting to every voltage fluctuation immediately, instead it should take a couple of voltage samples over time and take the average value. So the cell noise will have less influence. Based on these average values, it will determine wether there is a trend in the voltages showing the pack is unbalanced. If it is, brief pulses of balancing current are allowed.

Thus, fluctuating voltages will not trigger the balancing any more; only voltage trends will do.

If this average voltage stuff is to complicated, or the charger is technically unable to do this, how about just raising the voltage imbalance threshold, which activates the balancer, a little, until the cell noise is blinded out?

How does this sound?
I uploaded a picture showing the trace which must be soldered. You will have to click on the picture to see the area in the white circle. Pin 1 provides 5v from the USB port. One only has to complete the trace which then provides 5v for the chip on the TTL PCB. Although it is hard to tell from this blown up picture, the two trace points are very close together. A small drop of solder joined these two points.

I like your idea regarding the long times it's taking the charger to finnish up the balance charge on older or less then perfect packs. Waiting for the safety timeout is taking way too long and is not a solution for this issue.
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Last edited by Phoenex; Jul 12, 2008 at 01:05 PM.
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