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Old Jun 27, 2008, 06:24 AM
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England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgfly
I cannot say for certain but I think balancing will happen whenever the cells are more than 0.??V out of balance. Certainly it will happen as soon as any one cell reaches 4.20V.

Yes, that is how I see it.

No I would not express it that way. Certainly the concept of the current threshold is similar and there is a conceptual similarity bewteen Charge and Normal Balance and Fast Charge and Fast Balance. However Storage mode is very different since it will automatically either charge or discharge as needed to get the pack to the target storage voltage.

According to the manual there is no Ic threshold for Storage nor is balancing active. You might ask for clarification from JunSi on the Storage behaviour when charging or discharging.
Many thanks once again kgfly
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 12:52 PM
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Kyalami, South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by not.likely
Many thanks once again kgfly
AFAICT..Cell balancing happens from the time charging starts and continues through both stages of the charge process. (ie CC and CV)
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 02:53 PM
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I hope this is not the case. Especially at the beginning of the charge, cells differ more in voltage than at the end.
Lets say your cells have slightly different capacities, but they all have the same voltage when fully charged, so they need no balancing.
During discharge, the cells with the lower capacity drain faster, and their voltage is a tad lower than the voltage of the cells with more capacity.
At the end of the discharge, the voltage difference is hence the highest, although the pack does not need to be balanced.
But as the charger is connected when the pack is empty, it is connected when the voltage difference is high.
A less sophisticated charger will start to balance now, and drag the cells with the higher capacities to the voltage level of the cells with less capacity. But as the charge continues, the cells with less capacity get full faster, and they are now the ones with the higher voltages. Now the charger has to balance again, this time drawing current from the cells with less capacity.
As it is obvious, balancing from the beginning is not the best way.
A sophisticated charger will start balancing somewhere in the middle of the charge.

Cheers,

Julez
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 03:11 PM
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Kyalami, South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julez
I hope this is not the case. Especially at the beginning of the charge, cells differ more in voltage than at the end.
Lets say your cells have slightly different capacities, but they all have the same voltage when fully charged, so they need no balancing.
During discharge, the cells with the lower capacity drain faster, and their voltage is a tad lower than the voltage of the cells with more capacity.
At the end of the discharge, the voltage difference is hence the highest, although the pack does not need to be balanced.
But as the charger is connected when the pack is empty, it is connected when the voltage difference is high.
A less sophisticated charger will start to balance now, and drag the cells with the higher capacities to the voltage level of the cells with less capacity. But as the charge continues, the cells with less capacity get full faster, and they are now the ones with the higher voltages. Now the charger has to balance again, this time drawing current from the cells with less capacity.
As it is obvious, balancing from the beginning is not the best way.
A sophisticated charger will start balancing somewhere in the middle of the charge.

Cheers,

Julez
That makes perfect sense Julez, but from what I can see, that is not how this charger works. I stand to be corrected, as most of my packs do not go below 25%, but balancing is happening on the fly from the time charging starts.

I have just charged a 2650 A123 pack at 10A, but with a balanced charge. The amp range dropped from 10A to 7.7A, and at times to 1.2A as the balancers kicked in, and the CC was reduced to allow the gap in voltage to close. The pack took 1860mah, and took 22.5 minutes to charge. Of course this may be a unique program to LiFe, as the voltage difference between 20% and 90% of charge is very little.

Unfortunately my LiPo's are all charged now, but I seem to have noticed similar behavior in lipo program. A discharged 700mah pack (over did it on flying time) took 822mah to charge, I suspect around 150 mah was used to balance.

I do agree with your logic though, and think a good method would be to only use balancing at CV stage. The taps could be used to monitor so that the CC can be reduced should any cell reach 4.2V.

Then CV with balancing should kick in.
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 05:07 PM
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Indonesia, Jakarta Capital Region, Djakarta
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Still waiting for HC to restock the 606 charger. Just few questions in mind, Junsi will you do an internal resistance measurement and can i use this charger to output certain voltage and certain current just like a lab power supply?

Thanks
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 05:30 PM
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Germany
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Quote:
can i use this charger to output certain voltage and certain current just like a lab power supply?
Good Idea.
If 0.1A and 0.1V steps are good enough for you, the motor break in and the new foam cutting mode should be able to do this, although with a little limitation.
A lab power supply will keep its voltage with no load, the foam cut mode will go to 0.5V according to the manual.
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Old Jun 27, 2008, 07:30 PM
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United States, CT, Ledyard
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Still waiting for Tanic to get thier order too. I recieved my CP 10s so I have something to use on my Lipo packs but would likr to try out the 106's on my Nihm and Nicad packs and maybe cut some foam too.

What adapters will I need to connect from the 106b to FlightPower/Thunderpower packs?
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 02:20 AM
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Marburg/Germany
Joined Jul 2007
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Junsi,

any news about the "restocking" at Hobbycity? Saturday passed and still no stock :-(
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 06:18 AM
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Fab66's Avatar
Moselle, France
Joined May 2005
68 Posts
unable to start lipo program after update 3.05

Hello Junsi, All,

i made the update for a few minutes in 3.05 of the 1010B.
Next step was to start storage program, but no possible to
start the sequence with Enter pressed.
The LiPo program doesn't start anymore.

I try also by LiPo Balance charging : same issue.

So i load an NiMh charge program and the program have started.

An idea what can be the reason ? Software problem ?
It is possible to came back in version 3.04 ? i don't like to try
because i don't no if downgrade are possible.

Fabrice
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 08:12 AM
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Try to update your charger again, maybe there was an error during the data transfer.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 12:50 PM
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Moselle, France
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab66

An idea what can be the reason ? Software problem ?
It is possible to came back in version 3.04 ? i don't like to try
because i don't no if downgrade are possible.

Fabrice
Hello,

i think the problem came from the enter button.
We need to push more than 3 seconds, and the
button is little defect so the contact is not
really short 3 seconds and the firmware doesn't
detect the start of the program.

I think i need to replace the switch.

Fabrice
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Last edited by Fab66; Jun 28, 2008 at 01:26 PM.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 01:24 PM
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I see.

Try getting "tuner contact spray" from a local electronics shop. This is a mild cleaner for contacts, like tuning pots on a radio.
I had an older charger where the buttons needed to be pressed very firmly to work. I opened the case, a dash of the spray right onto the button case, so that the liquid can flow inside, let it evaporate for 10mins...voila, good as new!

Junsi,
if you need really high quality buttons, try the mec brand.
I use them in a charger I built, and never in my life I experienced better buttons. They have an excellent tactile feedback, and I never had problems with switch bounce or intermittent contact.
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Last edited by Julez; Jun 28, 2008 at 01:42 PM.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 03:28 PM
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USA, IL, Champaign
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Update Success!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyalamikid
Phoenex, Please give it a shot, it would be great to have a all in one working solution!
After a run to Radio Shack for some very small soldering equipment, I worked on one of the chargers today. I have very little experience soldering on circuit boards with such small parts. I found it quite tasking, but got it done. The main issue for me was the short wire installation. I used the following TTL adapter.

USB to RS232 module based TTL (FT232BM/BL)

I have had this awhile, installed it and checked it with Hyperteminal to make sure it was working.

I used a servo wire as stated earlier leaving the end outside the case just below the charger power connection wires. I soldered the wires so that the TX pin from the TTL device would go to the TX point listed in the PDF file. Same with the wires for the RX and Ground pins to the RX and Ground points listed in the PDF. I powered up the charger before and after jumper to make sure it was working properly. I followed the instructions turning on the charger with jumper in place, cut the jumper then attached the servo wire extension to the servo connector just outstide the charger then plugged the other end into the TTL device. I went over to the computer, attached the TTL device to the USB cable, fired up the updater program, selected the update file and started the update. Worked first time I removed the jumper wire afterward and reassembled the charger. I hooked up a battery and tested the charger, charging and discharging, worked like a champ with the new 3.05 firmware.
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Last edited by Phoenex; Jun 28, 2008 at 11:12 PM.
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 03:39 PM
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Cool, this is encouraging!
So you only used 3 wires: RX, TX and GND, right?
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Old Jun 28, 2008, 04:02 PM
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Trondheim, Norway
Joined Jun 2003
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Great news on the foam cutting option in V3.05! Thanks again for listening to the user feedback Junsi

I wonder if one of these charge jacks made for fuselage mounting would fit inside the case?

T
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