HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jun 21, 2008, 06:21 PM
Registered User
Croatia, Europe
Joined Aug 2006
334 Posts
Tried to update with HXT key - gets displayed in iCharger updater.

My 1010 is 3.01. I shorted the jumper and there was nothing on the LCD, not even the backlight. I could see its powered but again, no backlight.

I tried all 3 wire combinations. All I got is "Not find device" and "Communication error, 0"

Any suggestions??

Wesp
Wespen is offline Find More Posts by Wespen
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 21, 2008, 11:07 PM
Registered User
Fab66's Avatar
Moselle, France
Joined May 2005
68 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wespen
Tried to update with HXT key - gets displayed in iCharger updater.

My 1010 is 3.01. I shorted the jumper and there was nothing on the LCD, not even the backlight. I could see its powered but again, no backlight.

I tried all 3 wire combinations. All I got is "Not find device" and "Communication error, 0"

Any suggestions??

Wesp
Hello

first need to be sure that nothing bad happen with the combination of wire.
Be sure that 0v are on GND.

Than what converter rs232c-ttl are in use ? How it is powered ?

Fabrice
Fab66 is offline Find More Posts by Fab66
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2008, 11:23 PM
Registered User
Melbourne, Australia
Joined May 2006
6,407 Posts
My understanding is that you only short the jumper while turning on the power to the charger. The LCD is expected to be blank. Remove the short and then try to connect to the PC.
kgfly is offline Find More Posts by kgfly
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 21, 2008, 11:34 PM
Registered User
Fab66's Avatar
Moselle, France
Joined May 2005
68 Posts
yes the remark of kgfly is right, only short when powered up and reopen it a second after.

Fabrice
Fab66 is offline Find More Posts by Fab66
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2008, 03:57 AM
Registered User
Croatia, Europe
Joined Aug 2006
334 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab66
Hello

Than what converter rs232c-ttl are in use ? How it is powered ?

Fabrice
I was trying that Hextronic USB key. It has the Profilic chip but im not sure is it RS232 or TTL.
I read somewhere that the output is +V, Signal, GND,
Nothing bad happened, my iCharger still works when powered normally.

Looks like Ill need proper USB-to-TTL converter.

Wesp
Wespen is offline Find More Posts by Wespen
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2008, 07:07 AM
Registered User
Melbourne, Australia
Joined May 2006
6,407 Posts
Quote:
read somewhere that the output is +V, Signal, GND,
That doesn't make sense to me, it should be some combination of Tx, Rx and Gnd.
kgfly is offline Find More Posts by kgfly
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2008, 12:44 PM
Registered User
Croatia, Europe
Joined Aug 2006
334 Posts
Any way I can check which one is Tx and Rx?

Wesp
Wespen is offline Find More Posts by Wespen
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2008, 04:46 PM
Registered User
West Linn, Oregon
Joined Mar 2006
15 Posts
Good Day All,

After reading this thread I was impressed with both the charger(s) and Junsi's interaction and willingness to incorperate user sugestions in the products. I ended up ordering a 106B as it will serve my needs for forseeable future.

Does anyone know if the 1010B (and 106B) use "Kelvin" sensing (4 wire, using the balance connector) of the total battery pack voltage.
ML_Crisis is offline Find More Posts by ML_Crisis
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2008, 05:06 PM
Registered User
Melbourne, Australia
Joined May 2006
6,407 Posts
What is "Kelvin" sensing ? The chargers certainly do monitor the per-cell voltages via the balance taps and the total pack voltage via the main power lead AFAIK. The balance lead will have one more wire than the number of cells, so 4-wire for a 3S pack.
kgfly is offline Find More Posts by kgfly
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2008, 05:13 PM
Registered User
Melbourne, Australia
Joined May 2006
6,407 Posts
OK, I looked up Kelvin sensing. I doubt this is used. Clearly not externally since it would require 2N+1 wires instead of N+1 of an N-cell pack, and none of the packs have the extra wires. Internally I think it would require N separate bridge circuits, adding to the cost and complexity. Given the target precision I am not sure there is a need for this complexity.
kgfly is offline Find More Posts by kgfly
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2008, 06:06 PM
Registered User
West Linn, Oregon
Joined Mar 2006
15 Posts
Hi Kgfly,

Kelvin (4 wire sensing) of total pack voltage may be resident if the charger uses the bottom most and top most taps of the balance connector to sense voltage. Kelvin sensing is a common practice in the electronics industry in power distribution to limit the errors introduce by IR drops in the distribution wiring. This is desirable as there is vitually no current flowing on these taps which would otherwise introduce IR (voltage) drop and contribute sensing errors.

The reason this is of interest for me is that I intend to use A123 cells to power my .40 size electric and would like not to remove the pack for charging. As the power source for the charger will be my vehicle which must remain some distance from the pit area, I would prefer to run an "extension cord" from the charger's output to the pack rather than from the vehicle's battery to the charger input. Current at the charger output will never be more than 10Amps whereas current to the charger input may be => 25Amps. I generally would not want to balance the pack while charging in the aircraft but would assemble a four wire charging cord to sense pack voltage at the pack's discharge connector. Two conductors for the +/- charging current path and two conductors for voltage sensing which would feedback to the appropriate balance connector.
ML_Crisis is offline Find More Posts by ML_Crisis
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2008, 06:28 PM
Southern Pride
everydayflyer's Avatar
Haralson County GA. USA
Joined Oct 2004
34,659 Posts
I would advise checking with the chargers EE before extending the chargers output leads such a great distance.


Charles
everydayflyer is online now Find More Posts by everydayflyer
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2008, 06:54 PM
Registered User
Melbourne, Australia
Joined May 2006
6,407 Posts
From my observations, measurement of the total pack voltage and measurement of the per-cell voltages are independent but related. I reach this conclusion because:

1) You do not have to have the balance lead connected to operate the charger, including viewing the pack voltage.

2) The pack voltage reported by the charger is often slightly different from the sum of the per-cell voltages. The largest difference I have seen is 0.03V. This suggests to me that they are measured independently rather than one being derived from the other.

3) You cannot get meaningful per-cell voltage measurements without the main power lead connected.

I cannot comment on your plan to extend the output leads but if you are talking about metres rather than centimetres I would advise caution due to the increased inductance introduced.
kgfly is offline Find More Posts by kgfly
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2008, 07:19 PM
Registered User
West Linn, Oregon
Joined Mar 2006
15 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kgfly
From my observations, measurement of the total pack voltage and measurement of the per-cell voltages are independent but related. I reach this conclusion because:

1) You do not have to have the balance lead connected to operate the charger, including viewing the pack voltage.

2) The pack voltage reported by the charger is often slightly different from the sum of the per-cell voltages. The largest difference I have seen is 0.03V. This suggests to me that they are measured independently rather than one being derived from the other.

3) You cannot get meaningful per-cell voltage measurements without the main power lead connected.

I cannot comment on your plan to extend the output leads but if you are talking about metres rather than centimetres I would advise caution due to the increased inductance introduced.
I am planning on extending the output leads by 7-10 metres if "kelvin" sensing is supported by the charger.

You bring up a good point however, that being a possible but not probable sensitivity of the charger to lead inductance. Typically, a switching converter (the charger) has both input and out bypass capacitors. The input being more critical. If an attempt at cost minimization was made by the manufacturer of the 1010B/106B chargers through omission of the output filter cap then it's performance/stability will be greatly affected by lead inductance.

I suspect that your observed difference between the reported aggregate cell voltage and the reported pack voltage is caused by truncation of A-D data (finite resolution of A-D converters)

Also, I am confused by your statement of not being able to get meaningful "per-cell" voltage without the discharge lead connected. I believe the charger's manual outlines a "snoop" mode allowing one to monitor individual cell voltages while the pack is being charged or discharged by a auxiliary device through the discharge connector.

GW
ML_Crisis is offline Find More Posts by ML_Crisis
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 22, 2008, 07:42 PM
Registered User
Melbourne, Australia
Joined May 2006
6,407 Posts
Quote:
Also, I am confused by your statement of not being able to get meaningful "per-cell" voltage without the discharge lead connected. I believe the charger's manual outlines a "snoop" mode allowing one to monitor individual cell voltages while the pack is being charged or discharged by a auxiliary device through the discharge connector
Hmm, good point and yet here is the discussion from earlier in this thread:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=260
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=263
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=269

Which leaves open the question of how the monitor mode works ?
kgfly is offline Find More Posts by kgfly
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Best charger/discharger $ can buy namancio Batteries and Chargers 30 Jan 31, 2010 02:52 PM
Power Pacer Battery charger/discharger ACE_McCOOL Batteries and Chargers 4 Oct 22, 2002 12:39 PM
NIB Hitec CG-325 Charger/Discharger/Cycler for 4-9 cells - $39! Jason M Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 0 Oct 03, 2002 03:29 AM
WTB Good charger/discharger 10 + cells WickedFunRC Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 0 Sep 05, 2002 08:55 PM