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Old Dec 15, 2009, 11:51 AM
Asks too many questions
natterjak's Avatar
Berkshire, UK
Joined Nov 2005
474 Posts
Lipos terminating at 4.15V / cell on 208B but not 1010B+

All my iChargers are now on v3.12 firmware. I don't particularly want to be in this situation of loading a new firmware just as it is released, but after losing one of my 208Bs to a CB error (was away for 5 weeks being replaced) and having suffered a CB error on the first use of the replacement 208B when it arrived, I felt I had no choice but to upgrade.

I charged 5 3S 2200mAh lipos today, 3 in parallel on one of my 208Bs and 2 in parallel on the other. All batteries terminated at around 4.15V / cell and having checked the settings menu I confirm the termination voltage setting for lipo is 4.20V. Towards the end of the charge I noticed the individual cell voltages were showing 4.14 / 4.15 while the main display showed 12.6V. This was when the charger was in the CV phase of the charge and the charge current had been decreased to 0.25A so I believe this is not explainable due to volt loss in the charging cables.

I verified the cell voltages using a CML battery doctor and Junsi cellog, they were definately low by around 0.05V per cell.

Transferring one of the lipos onto my 1010B+ (also running 3.12 firmware) I noted a "normal" charge occuring with 107mAh being put into the lipo that moments before my 208B said was fully charged.

My conclusion is that there's a bug in the V3.12 firmware for the 208B which is leading to the main voltage being displayed too high (individual cell voltages are displayed accurately) and this is leading to the charge terminating early.

Does Junsi actually test firmware before release?
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 11:59 AM
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Now, if I said that I'd be hanged, drawn and quartered.
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 01:52 PM
jdr43
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USA, AR, Bella Vista
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My conclusion is that there's a bug in the V3.12 firmware for the 208B which is leading to the main voltage being displayed too high (individual cell voltages are displayed accurately) and this is leading to the charge terminating early

It's not just the 208B the same thing is happening on my 106B+
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 02:09 PM
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Italy
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another bug.
During the discharge of A123 cells, the number reported is wrong
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 02:58 PM
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Slovenia
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Originally Posted by chadr View Post
I am using the 106b+ with latest firmware to charge a123 batteries and have not noticed this glitch. I watched the first 5 minutes of a charge yesterday and didn't see the amps change from the set value of 10 except when it dipped to 9.9 on occasion. Perhaps it is a bug that missed the 106b+ or the a123 charge routine altogether.

I think that I/4 error acoure only when you have balance port connected. I think that you have/charge A123 without it.

I have tested today in 208 and 106+ and every time - charging with balance port I/4 error, charging, fast and storage all three without balance port connected don't have this issue.

also confimr lover port reading 4.15 instead of 4.20 and higher over all voltage of the pack in both chargers.

sugestion : Junsi find 10 users, send them new fw for testing (for 2 to 3 weeks), and then publish new fw. I'm willing to help doing/testing this, because I realy respect you're work and cooperation in the forum.

p.s. and the forum willl be much shorter if testing users will contact Junsi passing this threads

also other readers will not get wrong view of charger quality if reading 3 pages of just erros and nothing else...

regards, Simon
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by natterjak View Post
...Towards the end of the charge I noticed the individual cell voltages were showing 4.14 / 4.15 while the main display showed 12.6V....:
Hope I don't regret interjecting in this discussion, but....

So is 12.6v the reading while the icharger is still charging? If so, that sounds like the actual charging voltage and not the pack voltage being measured. I don't think the icharger provides an actual measurement of the pack voltage when charging. To measure the actual pack voltage, wouldn't one want to measure the total voltage with the icharger (if possible) after the charging has terminated and cells have rested a bit, and compare them with the individual cell voltage measurements? Perhaps this explains the perceived descrepancy.
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 04:16 PM
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Maybe, maybe not, but doesn't this beg the question: as designed or manufactured, is the 208b "defective" enough to dump?

I'm a layman in the field, but I've not read of other manufacturers with such consistent "issues."

What is the net worth of this "company," anyway?

Is it just a spot on the wall?
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 04:41 PM
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Yes Gumpee, you are correct in that the total voltage displayed is Vo, the output voltage at the main charge leads.
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 05:33 PM
Asks too many questions
natterjak's Avatar
Berkshire, UK
Joined Nov 2005
474 Posts
Gumpee, you miss the point slightly I'm afraid. Yes, it's Vout as David said, but at 0.25A charge rate it's also near as dammit the battery voltage. There can't be a 0.15 volt drop along those charge leads at such a low current unless they're making a seriously bad connection. And on both of my chargers, all of a sudden after the new firmware is loaded.... Don't buy it I'm afraid.

Sorry... talk of whether the 12.6 is the battery or charger output voltage is irrelevant and masking the issue.

Firmware bug aside I'm getting close to selling on my iChargers and buying into Hyperion, even though it will cost me more money. I don't share Angelfood's desire to slam HillRC at every opportunity but I'm sick and tired of failures and problems with these chargers. Out of three chargers I've had two which had to be posted back to China within the first year of ownership.

I'm sure the normal names will pop up now saying things aren't so bad and there's only a few people who've had problems and anyway lots of people don't know how to plug a charger in properly ,etc, etc. but I base my opinions on personal experience and I've just about had enough now.

I've spent about 450 USD on these three chargers and I just want to be able to charge lipos with them, without the charger smoking itself or undercharging the lipo, or showing a fault message that can't be cleared. I just want them to work, that's not too much to ask is it?
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natterjak View Post
Gumpee, you miss the point slightly I'm afraid. Yes, it's Vout as David said, but at 0.25A charge rate it's also near as dammit the battery voltage. There can't be a 0.15 volt drop along those charge leads at such a low current unless they're making a seriously bad connection. And on both of my chargers, all of a sudden after the new firmware is loaded.... Don't buy it I'm afraid.

Sorry... talk of whether the 12.6 is the battery or charger output voltage is irrelevant and masking the issue.

Firmware bug aside I'm getting close to selling on my iChargers and buying into Hyperion, even though it will cost me more money. I don't share Angelfood's desire to slam HillRC at every opportunity but I'm sick and tired of failures and problems with these chargers. Out of three chargers I've had two which had to be posted back to China within the first year of ownership.

I'm sure the normal names will pop up now saying things aren't so bad and there's only a few people who've had problems and anyway lots of people don't know how to plug a charger in properly ,etc, etc. but I base my opinions on personal experience and I've just about had enough now.

I've spent about 450 USD on these three chargers and I just want to be able to charge lipos with them, without the charger smoking itself or undercharging the lipo, or showing a fault message that can't be cleared. I just want them to work, that's not too much to ask is it?
Uh, Jak, that's not my intent-I just want the charger I paid for, with the specifications Junsi published, which implies one that "works."

I bought the Icharger to take the place of a more "complicated" Hyperion Duo II, and I'm glad I kept the Hyperion.

Frankly, it's in my best interests that Junsi cure the issues (I'm so Junsi-vested I have the cell thingy, a 1010b+, a 208b, the power supply and lots of adapters-no rational person, with that investment, would blow his own foot off!)-now, if a little prodding so often is "slamming," well, so be it.

I followed the Icharger for almost a year until I decided to buy, and watched the various models go through "teething issues." I bought when I thought it was a mature product, from a company that had the capacity to "support" it. I now "fear" (no factual basis) that may have been a poor decision on my part.

I wish the best for Junsi and its (their?) U.S. sellers.

If only I could know the state of mind of others, I'd be a billionaire...
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 06:48 PM
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USA, TX, Grapevine
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well i would have to agree with you. I just bought one and thought it ought to be pretty good now. I was surprised to see it had problems still.
so now I have to double check and test things before I can trust it.
I have a couple of $45.00 50w chargers that you pretty much just set on charge or to storage mode and wait for the alarm to go off. I wanted to have something more speedy for charging at the flying field.
I guess I should have gone with the Xtrema charger system in the first place. it cost about the same and I haven't read of anyone having problems with it. http://tmenet.com/products/lithium-c...xtrema-charger
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Old Dec 15, 2009, 11:40 PM
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GeorgeC's Avatar
Perth, Tasmania, Australia
Joined May 2000
354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheech2 View Post
sugestion : Junsi find 10 users, send them new fw for testing (for 2 to 3 weeks), and then publish new fw. I'm willing to help doing/testing this, because I realy respect you're work and cooperation in the forum.

p.s. and the forum willl be much shorter if testing users will contact Junsi passing this threads

also other readers will not get wrong view of charger quality if reading 3 pages of just erros and nothing else...

regards, Simon
Simon - I agree and I posted the same suggestion (shown below) a few days ago. I only hope Junsi is watching and taking heed because I suspect there are a lot of potential buyers being turned away after reading these posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
Still, the QC team needs a rocket if this proves to be a bug in the software. I know there is pressure on Junsi's team to deliver but rather than add enhancements as in 3.12, they should concentrate on making sure the basic functionality of the charger is unimpaired. THEN add the enhancements after thorough testing, including using beta testers like Julez, kgfly and everyday flyer etc (assuming they are willing) who are far more technically capable than the average users.

George

George
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Old Dec 16, 2009, 01:22 AM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
Simon - I agree and I posted the same suggestion (shown below) a few days ago. I only hope Junsi is watching and taking heed because I suspect there are a lot of potential buyers being turned away after reading these posts.
Hello Sir,

Thank you for your nice suggestion.
We will take it into consideration when a new software comes out next time.

Thanks for all our users' support.

Regards,
Junsi
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Old Dec 16, 2009, 03:06 AM
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Perth, Tasmania, Australia
Joined May 2000
354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by junsi View Post
Hello Sir,

Thank you for your nice suggestion.
We will take it into consideration when a new software comes out next time.

Thanks for all our users' support.

Regards,
Junsi
Thank you for your response Junsi. Do you know if the Connection Breakdown is firmware or hardware related? Because if it is firmware, we would have expected 3.12 to fix this. If it is likely to be hardware, consumers need to know so they don't waste time installing firmware updates. I hope you are able to resolve this quickly.

Your users support you because we want you to get this right and deliver the best value charger on the market but it must be bug free.

George
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Old Dec 16, 2009, 03:11 AM
Keep it steady
lavi's Avatar
Haifa ISRAEL
Joined Oct 2008
74 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by junsi View Post
Hello Sir,

Thank you for your nice suggestion.
We will take it into consideration when a new software comes out next time.

Thanks for all our users' support.

Regards,
Junsi
I will gladly join a beta program and try to help as much as i can.
putting few hours a week into beta testing is no problem for me, and getting a better charger is a proper goal.

to be honest I already spend many hours a week charging my lipos...
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