Discussion 10S 10A 300W charger/discharger ( iCharger 1010B+) --206B, 208B release!

[flarssen]

Originally Posted by junsi

if you connect to the balancing port,the 1010B can monitor each cell's voltage,when the cell's voltage over 4.25V,the 1010B will teminate the charge progress with error.

Excellent! But since the idea is to be able to charge multiple packs at the same time (in series), there is also a need to reduce charging current based on cell voltage so that the balancing part is able to keep the high cells at 4.20V while the low ones is charging. I know this might be a slow process, but sometimes it's better than terminating the charge with an error message.
I repeat this one:
During balancing, what is the max bleeding current?

Fred

[kgfly]

Lots of good ideas there Julez I agree with almost all of it with some minor variations (eg chemistry order LiFe/LiIon/LiPo is indeed safer but one could argue that LiPo/LiFe/LiIon is more convenient given what folks are using or moving towards).

Certainly making the firmware upgrades available to the user to "flash" the charger will greatly lower the barrier to acceptance of a new brand or even a new model in an established brand. This feature is available for several of the major competitors (eg TP1010C, EOS0610i, EOS1210i) and other newcomers (eg MaxproX6). If that cannot be done quickly, then providing your distributors with the ability to upgrade the firmware locally in their geography is the next best thing to do. Folks are very, very reluctant to ship items internationally just for a firmware upgrade.

[junsi]

Originally Posted by flarssen

Excellent! But since the idea is to be able to charge multiple packs at the same time (in series), there is also a need to reduce charging current based on cell voltage so that the balancing part is able to keep the high cells at 4.20V while the low ones is charging. I know this might be a slow process, but sometimes it's better than terminating the charge with an error message.
I repeat this one:
During balancing, what is the max bleeding current?

Fred

The balance charging mode is running as you said upward. but the normal charging mode, only alarm to over-charge,not to balancing cells.that's the difference between these two modes.

max bleeding current that you mention to is Current drain for balancing? max Current drain for balancing is 300mA. it means, the max current of every cell discharged by balance module is 300mA during balance charging mode. Do you know what i mean?

[Julez]

Thanks, kgfly !

I could not agree more with your second point.

Shipping a charger to China and back, just for a software update, would need about a month minimum. Nowadays, I can really see no reason why a charger should not be flashable. The 1 od 2$ more in hardware costs, many people would gladly pay.
I have 2 chargers, and both have recieved 5-10 updates. Each one was a good improvement.
This way, especially when people weigh whether buying from a new brand or not, they can be sure not to be stuck with some software bugs, or when a new battery technology emerges.

Junsi,

Thanks for making clear how it works!

One suggestion for the capacity cutoff menu: Please make it possible to disable this option. The chargers I have, have a value of 0-xxxmAh for capacity cutoff. When choosing "0mAh", the cutoff is disabled, when choosing more than 0mAh, the cutoff function works normally as described in your manual.

One question about the Lithium normal charge mode: Do the balancer cables have to be connected to the charger in this mode? Or is it possible to charge the battery pack without the balancer connection?

[junsi]

Julez, thanks very much.

But I found no reference on the manual, page 8, on how to switch between the settings for current and cell count. I assume one has to press "enter" briefly?
So the whole adjustment would work like this:
Set Lixx type (+/-) "enter"-->Set current (+/-)"enter"-->Set cell count (+/-)
If this is the way it works, it is very good!
One suggestion still: The order should be "LiFe->LiIo->LiPo".
This way, if one accidently skips this point, the battey is charged in LiFe mode. Thus, the voltage is too small, but it won't hurt the battery. Better than having the battery type with the highest voltage at the beginning.
On the screen of the charger, please show the battery type differences in capital letters.
"LiFe,LiIo,LiPo"
This way, the battery type is easier to see, than with small letters:
"Life,Liio,Lipo"

Ok,your suggestion is good!

I understand thet it is difficult for the charger to accurately monitor these very low currents.
But this is not the problem, when applying my pulsed current idea.
With pulsed current, the current can be higher, and better to monitor. But, because it is pulsed, the average current will still be very low.
If you pulse 50mA at 10% of the time, you effectively get 5mA. 50mA should be good to monitor for the charger, and being pulsed, it is better for the battery, too.
So you have one solution for both problems!

Now I see what you mean, it a great idea, we will try to add the function you mention to.

I think 1/10C is a bit high. Especially LiIon batterys, which have a higher inner resistance, have a much longer CV period. When the charge stopps at 1/10C, they might not be charged completely.
In my transmitter, for example, I have 3s LiIon (not LiPo!) cells. I have one charger, which stops at 1/160C, and one charger, which stops at 1/10C. When charging with the 1/10C charger, and then connecting it to the 1/160C charger, it adds more than 300mAh additionally. This is a good 15% of charge that is lost, if the charger stops too early.

In the normal charging mode, it’s more chance to cause over-charge when the ending current is much lower, because voltage of each cell is not at the same level, but In the balance charging mode, the ending current could be much lower, you can find the Parameter setup in our user’s manual,the function “Bal.Speed”and” Bal.Trickle” can solve this problem you refer to.

This termination only happens in "normal charge" mode, where no balancing is made, correct?
In "balance charge" mode, the charger will lower the charge current, if one cell reaches a dangerously high voltage level, correct?

yes

- I also read in the manual, that the charger will stop charging when the supply voltage falls under the value programmed in the setup menu. How about this idea:
When the voltage level is too low, the charger should decrease the charging current, to lower the load on the power supply or battery. This would be much more convenient, especially when using a power supply: This way, the charger can always pull the maximum current from the supply, without having to adjust anything in the setup menu.

you can find the Parameter setup in our user’s manual,the function “Watt Limit(W) CHG:AUTO” , the ‘AUTO’ option is your means .

Please make the software updateable by the user! This is a great feature nowadays. Knowing that one will be able to update a charger when new ideas or new battery types emerge, is a huge benefit, and will make the charger more valuable for many people!

Yes, we will add this function of update hardware.

[thomanie]

Originally Posted by junsi

Yes, we will add this function of update hardware.

Excellent!

Beef the circuit to handle +300W (9s 5000mah charged at 2C, any large parallel LiFe pack) and you'd sweep the market IMHO.

T

[Julez]

Junsi,

wonderful to read this! If the options are implemented as you write, you will soon have a killer product
When manufacturers and hobby people with experience listen to each other, great improvements can be made for the benefits of everyone.

Thanks for your detailled answers.

Cheers,

Julez

[junsi]

Originally Posted by Julez

Junsi,

Thanks for making clear how it works!

One suggestion for the capacity cutoff menu: Please make it possible to disable this option. The chargers I have, have a value of 0-xxxmAh for capacity cutoff. When choosing "0mAh", the cutoff is disabled, when choosing more than 0mAh, the cutoff function works normally as described in your manual.

i know what you mean, but, please check the Manual, we have two options "on" and "off" to able or disable capacity cutoff function.

One question about the Lithium normal charge mode: Do the balancer cables have to be connected to the charger in this mode? Or is it possible to charge the battery pack without the balancer connection?

In the normal charging mode, you don't need to connect the balancer cables to the charge, the charge can work well, but the charger can't monitor the voltage of single cell and alarm beyond 4.25V.

[flarssen]

Originally Posted by junsi

The balance charging mode is running as you said upward. but the normal charging mode, only alarm to over-charge,not to balancing cells.that's the difference between these two modes.

I'm sorry, during my typing I forgot which mode we were talking about! . It works fine!

Originally Posted by junsi

max bleeding current that you mention to is Current drain for balancing? max Current drain for balancing is 300mA. it means, the max current of every cell discharged by balance module is 300mA during balance charging mode. Do you know what i mean?

Yes that was what I meant, and 300 mA is quite good!

I think this must already be one of the better chargers on the market. Julez suggestions would make it even better.

Fred

[Sisyphus]

Amazing world, isn't it: some guy in China uses the whole world to design the ideal consumer product, rather than what some egineer thinks they "should" have-I'm with the German guy-if you bring this to market, it will be a "killer!"

I sent an e mail inquiry about how to buy the smaller one here in the U.S. and got no answer.

How do I buy either of these chargers!

[Julez]

i know what you mean, but, please check the Manual, we have two options "on" and "off" to able or disable capacity cutoff function.

I see it now, my bad. Thanks.

In the normal charging mode, you don't need to connect the balancer cables to the charge, the charge can work well, but the charger can't monitor the voltage of single cell and alarm beyond 4.25V.

Ok, I see!

Yes, listening to the actual customers is always a benefit.
A Chinese flashlight company, Fenix, does this too on CPF, and sells like mad.

Get the charger done, and with the suggested hardware and software, this will be a winner.

[thomanie]

I totally agree with Julez - "If you build it, they will come!"

The obvious question now is when can we expect to see v2 (1010Bv2,1010C?) with these features in?

T

[Sisyphus]

Build it sooner, please, because there may not be any "dollars" left over here!

[Julez]

Another suggestion.

Recently, I have experimented a lot with different LC Displays, especially concerning the backlight color.
The best results I have achieved with Supertwist Nematic (STN) transflective displays with grey color and white backlight. Yes, I opened these displays and changed the LE diodes
They have the best readability, both indoors with ambient light and in the darkness, as outside in bright sunlight. Any other backlight color is inferior to my tests, especially blue. Blue looks cool, but is bad to read.
Yellow backlight or green display color is also ok, it makes the charger look less monotonous.

What kind of backlight do you currently use? Is it green or yellow? It looks a little greenish on the images provided. If this is the case, I encourage you to experiment with yellow or white backlight, you might be surprised

The photo shows the current display in my transmitter: Yellow/Green display color with white backlight.

Cheers,

Julez

[kgfly]

Yep, the blue displays are fashionable but hard to read, definitely stick with the green/yellow/grey ones.